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A Harsh Indictment of the Arab World

Inferno

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Mar 24, 2002
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When Bernard Lewis writes about Islam and the Middle East - and especially when Dr. Lewis writes in Foreign Affairs - people take notice, and with good reason. History has shown us that that is the wisest course of action, for Professor Lewis is the Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern Studies, Emeritus, at Princeton for good reason: he knows more than anyone else in the West regarding this region, and his insights always prove illuminating. Thus, when he wrote “Free At Last: The Arab World in the Twenty-First Century” in this month’s Foreign Affairs, several points jumped out.

Noting the abject failure of the Arab and Islamic states to make their way into the 21st century, even as China is leaping across centuries to make its presence known in the modern world, Dr. Lewis writes that over the last quarter of a century, real GDP per capita has fallen throughout the Arab world. In 1999, the GDP of all the Arab countries combined stood at $531.2 billion, less than that of Spain. Today, the non-oil exports of the entire Arab world (which has a population of approximately 300 million people) amounts to less than those of Finland (a country of only five million inhabitants). Throughout the 1990’s, exports from the region, 70 per cent of which are oil or oil-related products, grew at a rate of 1.5 per cent, far below the average global rate of six per cent.

The number of books translated every year into Arabic in the entire Arab world is one fifth the number translated into Greek in Greece. And the number of books - both those in their original language and those translated - published per million people in the Arab world is very low compared with the figures for the other regions. Sub-Sahara Africa has a lower figure, but just barely.

The situation regarding science and technology is as bad or worse. A striking example is the number of patents registered in the United States between 1980 and 2000: From Saudi Arabia, there were 171; from Egypt, 77; from Kuwait, 52; from the United Arab Emirates, 32; from Syria, 20 and from Jordan15--- compared to 16,328 from South Korea and 7,652 from Israel. Or of six world regions, that comprising the Middle East and North Africa, received the lowest freedom ratings from Freedom House. The Arab countries also have the highest illiteracy rates and one of the lowest numbers of active research scientists with frequently cited articles. Only sub-Sahara Africa has a lower average standard of living.

Another shock came in the 2003 publication of China of a list of the 500 best universities in the world. The list did not include a single one of the more than 200 universities in the Arab countries.

It is not as if there is not the wealth in the Arab/Islamic world to change these things, for clearly there is and there has been huge wealth generated from the region’s oil and nat-gas. But just as clearly, that wealth does not make its way down from either the autocrats who rule S. Arabia, the Emirates, Dubai and Bahrain, nor from the dictators that rule Libya, Egypt, Syria, nor from the religious authorities that rule Iran (a Persian rather than an Arab nation; but an Islamic nation nonetheless). Shame, then, upon the autocrats and dictators who’ve kept their people in the literal Dark Ages, when the rest of the world is leaping into the modern world with abandon. Once the very centre of academic studies… once the region that gave us algebra and astronomy… once the region of great literature and philosophy… the Middle East has become the region of ignorance, un-and-mislearning; of poverty; of dictatorship; of misrule.
 

Cinema Face

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Mar 1, 2003
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Islam is a retrograde force and it’s incapable of forming a viable society. It never has except for a brief time during Islam’s golden years where they lived of the spoils of lands that they plundered. Islamic states are the most economically, culturally and intellectually impoverished places on earth.
 

antaeus

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Sep 3, 2004
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there is typical American disengenuity about articles like this.

Like most Americans, them vs. us.

There are significant differences between many Arab countries. To these sort of Americans, who slavishly need to publish, and some who are aware of regionalism, it's irrelevant as otherwise their specious and thin arguments would be ignored.

It is the same issue if a non North American scholar were to publish similar discourse comparing effective governments over given time period of the Americas. Notwithstanding America and Canada, lets throw in Panama, Ecuador, Nicaragua and Peru over the last decade, two decades, century, into the comparison: effective governmental jurisprudence, economic activity, etc.

But that's irrelevant to disengenuous Americans, who, as always, feed the us vs. them quotient.
 

Cinema Face

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Other Wanderer said:
Again, either the facts matter or they don't.

Without Islamic civilization, for centuries, not a "few years", you would be afraid to take a shower, and unable to do literally anything in modern science which depends on mathematics, just to start.

Maybe you still are afraid to take a shower, who knows?

Does that excuse the state of so-called Muslim countries today?

Of course not.

Italy isn't Rome, Britain is a has-been power, the Israelis are still clinging to stories pre-Babylon, and so on.

But, as is usual, your analysis of Islam is rooted in a total lack of any historical understanding, and far too much time on Mein Kampf type sites.

It’s ridiculous to presume that without Islam, we wouldn’t be able to add 2 numbers together or have personal hygiene.

Islam didn’t contribute to mathematical understanding but it did conquer countries that did. They claim responsibility for these discoveries.

It’s true that the middle eastern nations took cleanliness a little more seriously than did the Europeans during the middle ages. Islam took some of those personal cleaning habits and made them yet more mindless rituals.

Today, Islam is what holds these people back into the 7th century. Islam has no need for intellectual endeavours unless it is to memorize Qur’anic passages that nobody understands or to develop weapons.
 

scouser1

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2001
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Cinema Face said:
It’s ridiculous to presume that without Islam, we wouldn’t be able to add 2 numbers together or have personal hygiene.

Islam didn’t contribute to mathematical understanding but it did conquer countries that did. They claim responsibility for these discoveries.

It’s true that the middle eastern nations took cleanliness a little more seriously than did the Europeans during the middle ages. Islam took some of those personal cleaning habits and made them yet more mindless rituals.

Today, Islam is what holds these people back into the 7th century. Islam has no need for intellectual endeavours unless it is to memorize Qur’anic passages that nobody understands or to develop weapons.
Baruch Goldstein's analysis I always find fascinating in a baseball bat to the head kind of way, he makes bigoted absolutely absurd statements and when he is challenged merely runs away and moves on to another thread spewing some of the same nonsense.

Fact of the matter is Baruch your people wouldnt exist if it wasnt for the kindness and tolerance of Islam in its various forms. Muhammad's rule, Islamic Spain and the Ottoman Empire were all examples where Jews thrived and made their contributions, check your history Likud boy the "Jewish Golden Age" was under Islamic rule in Granada and Cordoba, but of course this means nothing to you since you sit comfortably behind a keyboard furthering your hate.
 

binderman

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scouser1 said:
Baruch Goldstein's analysis I always find fascinating in a baseball bat to the head kind of way, he makes bigoted absolutely absurd statements and when he is challenged merely runs away and moves on to another thread spewing some of the same nonsense.

Fact of the matter is Baruch your people wouldnt exist if it wasnt for the kindness and tolerance of Islam in its various forms. Muhammad's rule, Islamic Spain and the Ottoman Empire were all examples where Jews thrived and made their contributions, check your history Likud boy the "Jewish Golden Age" was under Islamic rule in Granada and Cordoba, but of course this means nothing to you since you sit comfortably behind a keyboard furthering your hate.
Policy is much like sports, we don't the son of a great athlete take his father's place no matter how incompetent just because he's related to something from the past. Its results that matter.
 

Mia.Colpa

Persian Lover
Dec 6, 2005
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Other Wanderer said:
except he fails to point out that the autocrats and dictators he's talking about, in the main, are paid hacks of Western powers and have been for a long time.
Is it possible that these so called paid hacks of Western powers are as such because they desparately need the Western world market to consume their oil?????? Without the Western world burning their oil, these hacks won't be as wealthy.

The issue is why haven't these hacks shared the wealth with the people to improve the their economy and to advance the living standards?
 

landscaper

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Feb 28, 2007
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The issue is indeed why the money has not flowed doen hill. \

Looking at the " history" of the economic era that most of the middle east is in at the moment( the parts that have positive cash flow at any rate) . They are aty about the same stage as the states in the 1850-1900 or England durinf the industrial revolution. Almost all of the money is tied up in a few hands. The rest of popultaion struggled along on what the could earn from the " robber Barons " or the Industrialists who put the ideas and plans together to make the big jump forward.

There are a couple of differences the first is the religious basis for the control of the oil, ISlam is a major player in most of the oil producing arab world. That causes a stagnation that did not happen in the west where money was the religion( not that that is nessisarily a good thing in itself). The requirement in some quarters to further the religious ends at all costs negates the advancement of other goals that the funding could provide. ( womens rights and education of all children are two examples).

The other thing that causes problems is the state of the world and the advances that have happened. The intenet pushes information down stream so fast it changes the way people live their lives. In the 1850's you would likely be illiterate and not know what was going on more than 50 miles from your home, now everything comes to your home computer, it is a very scary thing for somebody who needs the status quo to further their goals.

The moderate arab world will eventually cause the extreamists to go the way of the dodo but it will take time and education. The question is will it happen before somebody does something irrevocably stupid.
 

OddSox

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May 3, 2006
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I wonder if much of the antagonism against the western world is simply misdirected - and they should be targeting their own rulers instead? In the west there seems to be a constant barrage of complaints about how "the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer" but I really don't think there is any significant group of people in North America or Europe who are as "poor" as 90% of the population in the mideast - and there is no disputing the fact that most of the richest people in the world are also in the mideast.

Who is really at fault here?
 

Cinema Face

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Mar 1, 2003
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scouser1 said:
Fact of the matter is Baruch your people wouldnt exist if it wasnt for the kindness and tolerance of Islam in its various forms. Muhammad's rule, Islamic Spain and the Ottoman Empire were all examples where Jews thrived and made their contributions, check your history Likud boy the "Jewish Golden Age" was under Islamic rule in Granada and Cordoba, but of course this means nothing to you since you sit comfortably behind a keyboard furthering your hate.

Kindness and tolerance and Muhammad's rule?? What a joke. Muhammad killed a higher percentage of Jews within his reach than Hitler did.

The city of Medina which used to be called Yathrib was a predominantly Jewish community before Mo and his gang came and expelled them, killed them and stole their property. The Qur'an is full of hatred towards the Jews which is still used to justify Muslim hatred.

I'm not the one with the hatred problem.
 

zaig

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Jan 26, 2004
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Other Wanderer said:
Oh please, here we go again.

The Jews of Madina broke peace treaties with the Muslims about 72 times and build bridges over defensive ditches during a seige to help rival Arab tribes kill the Muslims there. It was hardly surprising that, after the 72nd time, they were dealt with accordingly.

Most historians are amazed it took that much patience from the Muslims
to do anything about it, but that was because they believed as fellow believers in God, that absolutely every effort had to made to forgive betrayal.

It is also hardly surprising that, when Jews in the rest of the Muslim world later did NOT attempt to kill Muslims or aid those who were trying to do so, that there lives, property, temples, etc. were all spared.

Which is why Jerusalem is still has sacred places to visit after CENTURIES of Muslim rule.

Try your b.s. with people who don't know any better.


Just for your information genius, Jews have been living in Jerusalem since long before Christ, and even after the diaspora of 70 C.E. there remained a vibrant Jewish community. Also since the mid 1800's, Jews have been either a majority or at the least a plurality of the population in Jerusalem. Jerusalem is also the holiest of all places for the Jewish people, whereas the only reason it has any significance to Muslims, is because of the Dome of the Rock, which was build over the ruins of Solomons temple.

As for Muslim tolerance towards Jews, its all relative. Jews and Christians for that matter were considered Dhimmis by the Muslims. What that meant is that they could live in Muslim countries, worship their religion, BUT, were second class citizens, who basically had to pay protection money in the form of a tax to the Muslim rulers. Yes the Jewish population were tolerated by the Muslims, and treated better than the Christians of that time, but it's not hard to be treated better than being persecuted or exiled from where you live.

If you want a real history lesson, let me know, because all you are spewing is misinformation and half truths.

I can quote you chapter and verse of all the Muslim persecution and killing if you are interested.
 

Bearlythere

Lost IN the Shwa
Aug 20, 2001
1,147
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Oshawa
The Arab world kills more Muslims, does more harm to Muslims and imprisons more Muslims than the west and Israel could even dream of. IN short, if the Arab world is angry their part of it is a shit hole, don't blame the US or Israel....blame their own leadership.
 
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