Very Important!!! This is not Junk Mail!!!

onomatopoeia

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I am going to type the full text of an unsigned letter I received in the mail today from my bank. I can't be the only one who routinely recycled notices from my bank sent by snail mail. I often assume that such notifications are spam mail for additional banking services which I don't want.

Action Required: Confirm your personal information
​
Hi xxxxxxx,

We're reaching out because we need to confirm or update your personal information. All Canadian financial institutions are required to have certain updated information on file for their customers, including date of birth, address, phone number and employment details.

By ensuring we have the correct information on file, you're helping us meet applicable regulatory requirements. This also helps us keep our services - and your accounts - secure.


Here's what we need you to do
​
Visit any XXXX branch in Canada to confirm confirm or update your information with a XXXX Representative in person.

Please bring a piece of current, valid government-issued photo ID (like a driver's license, passport, or permanent resident card) or two pieces of non-photo ID, (like a Canadian birth certificate and home utility bill) with you to the branch.

Your information can only be updated in a branch because your ID must be verified by a XXXXX Representative.

If we don't hear from you, access to your banking products may be restricted or frozen, and you may be unable to open any new accounts until we receive the required information.

To be sure you don't miss this important notice, it may also be sent to your email address we have on file for you.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation.


Sincerely,



XXXXX
​

P.S. If you've recently provided the information requested above, thank you! Please disregard this letter.


************


Several thinks about this letter seem odd to me.

1) There is no named author, nor has the letter been signed. The anonymity of the author implies that no one person can be held accountable for any actions their bank 'may' do, if the request is not fulfilled.

2) I'm presuming that other financial institutions have likely issued such letters to their clients, and probably with identical wording.

3) the phrase ...all Canadian financial institutions are required to have certain updated information on file for their customers....

Is this the result of newly passed Federal legislation, or is this a 'gentlemen's agreement' decided by senior representatives of the various institutions? Do the banks need to have this information, or do they just want it?

4) ...applicable regulatory requirements... again, is this a Canadian law, or just a rule instituted by the banks, without public debate or disclosure.

5) Visit any XXXX branch in Canada... A Canadian citizen who is currently living or traveling abroad would likely be unable to fulfill this condition. It's also likely that the curator of their incoming mail might send the letter directly to recycling.

6) Please bring a piece of current, valid government-issued photo ID (like a driver's license, passport, or permanent resident card) - I have none of THESE documents. I don't drive, (poor night vision), I haven't traveled abroad in many years, and I was born in Canada and have never resided in another country, so I would never have been issued a permanent resident card. Driving a car, traveling abroad of not having been born in Canada should not be reasons by which a bank account "May be restricted or frozen" These are, however only one if the ways to prove one's identity.

The only identification I have which contains my photograph is an Ontario Health card, but that isn't accepted as photo ID by my bank branch. Banking is subject to Federal, rather than Provincial government guidelines, specifically because it is among a small percentage of businesses which typically have commercial interests beyond Provincial borders. Other such Federally registered businesses would include transportation and the fur trade, but there may be others, (I worked with a pension plan subject to Federal rather than Provincial legislation.

I opened a bank account with TD in October, 1984. One of my accounts still has the transit codes for that original branch located at the corner of Bathurst St and St Clair Avenue. I showed my three pieces of identification to a bank teller earlier today.

7) ...or two pieces of non-photo ID, (like a Canadian birth certificate and home utility bill) I have shown my birth certificate to a teller at my current branch multiple times, when making large cash withdrawals. I rent an apartment, so I never receive a utility bill. Presumably other mail addressed to me with my name and address inscribed may suffice, but that should have been mentioned in the letter.

8) There is no deadline stated after which access to your banking products may be restricted or frozen I'll handle this for myself tomorrow, but it's the effect on other people which concerns me. Anyone who does not have a permanent address will not receive this letter. Anyone who has lost their identification, or if their identification has been stolen, would not be able to provide the documentation effectively demanded. I would certainly question the legality of restricting or freezing a bank account for noncompliance. If the terms of this letter were legally binding, the letter should have been registered, as a form of proof that it was received.

I have never provided an e-mail address to the bank. For clients who have done so, it may be an e-mail account which no longer processes incoming mail. Who among us who has been a member of TERB can even remember which e-mail account was used to join TERB for the account confirmation link? Many of those were likely 'burner' accounts, never used again after that task. Long dormant e-mail accounts might be the norm rather than the exception for the majority of Canadians who have at least one personal bank account.

It's very possible that this mass mailing may become newsworthy to some or all sources. I could see some major heads having to take early retirement, if the implied threats become real.

​
 

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
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The statement that you need to go to a branch of your bank to confirm your information does not sound like a scam.

I do my banking online, and from time to time am asked to confirm, and update if necessary, the details asked for in the letter you received, but that only happens when I am legitimately logged into my bank online.

I don't know if all the personal information they are requesting are regulations that the banks must follow. But I do believe a valid home address is one of them, and a P.O. Box won't do.

From your post it sounds like you do not bank online with the bank in question, so snail mail is the only way they can contact you. A phone call claiming to be from them would be very suspicious.

I would also be suspicious if they gave you a url to reply to on-line, but it seems they are just asking you to verify the information regarding your account at an actual branch of the bank.

You can always ignore it and see what happens, of course...
 

onomatopoeia

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The statement that you need to go to a branch of your bank to confirm your information does not sound like a scam.

I do my banking online, and from time to time am asked to confirm, and update if necessary, the details asked for in the letter you received, but that only happens when I am legitimately logged into my bank online.

I don't know if all the personal information they are requesting are regulations that the banks must follow. But I do believe a valid home address is one of them, and a P.O. Box won't do.

From your post it sounds like you do not bank online with the bank in question, so snail mail is the only way they can contact you. A phone call claiming to be from them would be very suspicious.

I would also be suspicious if they gave you a url to reply to on-line, but it seems they are just asking you to verify the information regarding your account at an actual branch of the bank.

You can always ignore it and see what happens, of course...
I recently turned 65, and seven months of Government pensions are scheduled to go into my account before the end of October. One arrears cheque of $4K plus was issued, but it bounced. I hadn't requested direct bank deposit with my app, but someone manually entered the bank transit information from some other Government cheque, and entered a 9 instead of a 6 in part of the branch number. I don't know if they plan to just wait until the next scheduled direct deposit on October 28 to reissue the arrears, or if the clerk processing the change in transit code made the change for future payments, but forgot to correct the past mistake. The last time I spoke to customer service I specifically asked that a note to that effect be added to my file. That might have been done, but there's no way of knowing if a clerk may have not seen that note because they don't routinely look for notes like that.

In 1984 I briefly had a job at an insurance company which involved a lot of manual coding for keypunch operators. Management wanted the work to be done quickly, and I think the company's policy was that a data entry error rate of 3% or less was considered acceptable. Maybe the company has an employee whose job description is to apologize on behalf of the company for phone complaints connected with data entry errors. The acceptable error rate may be higher now, since weed has been legalized in the interim.

Most people don't know this: The first eight digits of a social insurance number determine what the last number will be.

If anyone posts a nine digit number, I well tell them whether it is a valid Social Insurance Number or not, and why. For this illustration, I would prefer that at least 2 digits are less than 5, and at least 2 are greater than 5, but that's just so I can properly illustrate the formula.

Someone making one up would have a 10% chance of selecting a valid SIN.
 
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Ryan_Coke

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Oct 18, 2024
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I think you are taking the photo ID thing too literally. It says "like a drivers license, passport or PRC", it doesn't say "only" those things. How do you know a health card doesn't work? How about getting a government ID card? Looks like a drivers license.

I've never received anything from my bank like this, but I suppose that since we have bought and sold residences a few times in the last 30 years that each time we have updated a new address has been a frequent enough interval for them.

I'm not sure why you posted the SIN thing, or why you bolded it, or if you think someone should actually post theirs.
 

onomatopoeia

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I think you are taking the photo ID thing too literally. It says "like a drivers license, passport or PRC", it doesn't say "only" those things. How do you know a health card doesn't work? How about getting a government ID card? Looks like a drivers license.

I've never received anything from my bank like this, but I suppose that since we have bought and sold residences a few times in the last 30 years that each time we have updated a new address has been a frequent enough interval for them.

I'm not sure why you posted the SIN thing, or why you bolded it, or if you think someone should actually post theirs.
I reproduced the text of the letter, word for word. I'm not interpreting anything.

The alternative choices, other than photo ID which the bank accepts, are described in 7).

I'm quoting the bank teller.

I received the letter. I can't tell if this is a mass mailing, or just a poorly worded mail merge form letter sent to me. I did mention that I recently turned 65, and that 7 months of Government pensions would be deposited to my account in the current calendar month. The tone of the letter appears to be mildly threatening, with the implied possibility of my assets being frozen or restricted if I don't comply. Perhaps this letter is sent routinely to clients when age 65 pensions commence. There was some irony to the fact that I presented the requested documentation to a bank teller on the same day that I received the letter.


If only I, and selective other clients receive this letter at a specific time, I'll discuss the matter with the bank manager, pointing out my concerns about the choices of wording. Other people in my age peer group do not read as well as I do, so they may feel some trepidation that the bank is trying to scam them out of their pension money by using a 'loop hole' they may have created, which hasn't received Government assent.

It's also possible that at some future date, a different TERB member may receive this same letter, and start a thread about the topic. If i see that, I coulld 'kill the thread' by posting a link to THIS thread, which would allay all of that member's concerns. I have no problem in meeting the 'two piece' verification process with my Birth Certificate and this letter I received from the bank, which contains my name and home address. If the form letter had asked account holders to bring "this letter" with them to their branch along with their Birth Certificate, there would be no confusion whatsoever.

The SIN test was part of a quote in reply to @xmontrealer. He and I chat with each other in the midst of threads and in private conversations frequently, and I receive a lot of positive reaction score points from him. While he is older than most TERB members not using the Eddie Kerr handle, he hasn't ceased to want to acquire new information. The SIN portion, the larger text, and bold formatting was used to draw attention to that paragraph, for people who don't read all of posts longer than 48 typed characters.


I'm not trying to scam anyone into revealing their SIN. This is more like a 'magic trick', where 'a volunteer from the audience' is asked to participate. I watched the 1953 film Houdini in the early morning hours yesterday. A picture of Harry Houdini was used as a question in the Trivia-O-Rama thread around the same time. Hallowe'en 2026 will mark the 100th anniversary of Houdini's death. With the trivia question, I was wondering if any TERB member could recognize him from a photograph, even if they were familiar with his life accomplishments.

It's very possible that no one reading this thread know the formula used to determine the last number of a SIN. In my opinion, xmontrealer is one of the TERB members who would be interested in acquiring that knowledge.


I asked for ANY eight digit number containing two numerals below 5, and two above. If any TERB member chose to reveal their personal SIN as a number which satisfies those criteria, are there any more like them at home? This is semi 'parlour trick', and semi 'wow, I never knew that', and it's information I discovered independently, based in part on information gleaned from that 1984 insurance company job.
 

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
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I reproduced the text of the letter, word for word. I'm not interpreting anything.

The alternative choices, other than photo ID which the bank accepts, are described in 7).

I'm quoting the bank teller.

I received the letter. I can't tell if this is a mass mailing, or just a poorly worded mail merge form letter sent to me. I did mention that I recently turned 65, and that 7 months of Government pensions would be deposited to my account in the current calendar month. The tone of the letter appears to be mildly threatening, with the implied possibility of my assets being frozen or restricted if I don't comply. Perhaps this letter is sent routinely to clients when age 65 pensions commence. There was some irony to the fact that I presented the requested documentation to a bank teller on the same day that I received the letter.


If only I, and selective other clients receive this letter at a specific time, I'll discuss the matter with the bank manager, pointing out my concerns about the choices of wording. Other people in my age peer group do not read as well as I do, so they may feel some trepidation that the bank is trying to scam them out of their pension money by using a 'loop hole' they may have created, which hasn't received Government assent.

It's also possible that at some future date, a different TERB member may receive this same letter, and start a thread about the topic. If i see that, I coulld 'kill the thread' by posting a link to THIS thread, which would allay all of that member's concerns. I have no problem in meeting the 'two piece' verification process with my Birth Certificate and this letter I received from the bank, which contains my name and home address. If the form letter had asked account holders to bring "this letter" with them to their branch along with their Birth Certificate, there would be no confusion whatsoever.

The SIN test was part of a quote in reply to @xmontrealer. He and I chat with each other in the midst of threads and in private conversations frequently, and I receive a lot of positive reaction score points from him. While he is older than most TERB members not using the Eddie Kerr handle, he hasn't ceased to want to acquire new information. The SIN portion, the larger text, and bold formatting was used to draw attention to that paragraph, for people who don't read all of posts longer than 48 typed characters.


I'm not trying to scam anyone into revealing their SIN. This is more like a 'magic trick', where 'a volunteer from the audience' is asked to participate. I watched the 1953 film Houdini in the early morning hours yesterday. A picture of Harry Houdini was used as a question in the Trivia-O-Rama thread around the same time. Hallowe'en 2026 will mark the 100th anniversary of Houdini's death. With the trivia question, I was wondering if any TERB member could recognize him from a photograph, even if they were familiar with his life accomplishments.

It's very possible that no one reading this thread know the formula used to determine the last number of a SIN. In my opinion, xmontrealer is one of the TERB members who would be interested in acquiring that knowledge.


I asked for ANY eight digit number containing two numerals below 5, and two above. If any TERB member chose to reveal their personal SIN as a number which satisfies those criteria, are there any more like them at home? This is semi 'parlour trick', and semi 'wow, I never knew that', and it's information I discovered independently, based in part on information gleaned from that 1984 insurance company job.
It's interesting to know about that last number SIN "check digit" thing.

Sometimes I like to try different scenarios on TurboTax, and enter "Donald Duck", or something like, that as a name to avoid it saving the file with my actual name..

I then enter a made-up SIN, which the program usually says is invalid.

Next time I try that I will use the method you described to come up with "valid" SIN.

I seriously doubt the TurboTax program instantly goes to the CRA database to see if the SIN that I entered is attached to another person, whose name is not Donald Duck. :geek:
 

onomatopoeia

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It's interesting to know about that last number SIN "check digit" thing.

Sometimes I like to try different scenarios on TurboTax, and enter "Donald Duck", or something like, that as a name to avoid it saving the file with my actual name..

I then enter a made-up SIN, which the program usually says is invalid.

Next time I try that I will use the method you described to come up with "valid" SIN.

I seriously doubt the TurboTax program instantly goes to the CRA database to see if the SIN that I entered is attached to another person, whose name is not Donald Duck. :geek:
Post any 8 digit 'fake SIN' number containing two numbers above five, and two below, and I'll tell you what the last number should be, and why.

Based on the formula, anyone could test my formula using their own SIN. I would expect that no one reading this thread would be so obtuse as to post their actual SIN in a reply.
 

onomatopoeia

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In 1984 I briefly had a job at an insurance company which involved a lot of manual coding for keypunch operators. Management wanted the work to be done quickly, and I think the company's policy was that a data entry error rate of 3% or less was considered acceptable. Maybe the company has an employee whose job description is to apologize on behalf of the company for phone complaints connected with data entry errors. The acceptable error rate may be higher now, since weed has been legalized in the interim.
I don't think any company should believe that a 3% error rate is acceptable. This would especially apply to pharmaceutical companies in China which manufacture vaccines.
 

speakercontrols

Well-known member
Aug 26, 2023
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6) Please bring a piece of current, valid government-issued photo ID (like a driver's license, passport, or permanent resident card) - I have none of THESE documents. I don't drive, (poor night vision), I haven't traveled abroad in many years, and I was born in Canada and have never resided in another country, so I would never have been issued a permanent resident card.
​
Separate subject.

For life in general, get an Ontario Photo card for Government id with a photo. It will become very important that you do so as you get older. It makes dealing with the Gov't of Ontario MUCH easier for as you know, the Health Card is not acceptable.
 

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
13,388
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I reproduced the text of the letter, word for word. I'm not interpreting anything.

The alternative choices, other than photo ID which the bank accepts, are described in 7).

I'm quoting the bank teller.

I received the letter. I can't tell if this is a mass mailing, or just a poorly worded mail merge form letter sent to me. I did mention that I recently turned 65, and that 7 months of Government pensions would be deposited to my account in the current calendar month. The tone of the letter appears to be mildly threatening, with the implied possibility of my assets being frozen or restricted if I don't comply. Perhaps this letter is sent routinely to clients when age 65 pensions commence. There was some irony to the fact that I presented the requested documentation to a bank teller on the same day that I received the letter.


If only I, and selective other clients receive this letter at a specific time, I'll discuss the matter with the bank manager, pointing out my concerns about the choices of wording. Other people in my age peer group do not read as well as I do, so they may feel some trepidation that the bank is trying to scam them out of their pension money by using a 'loop hole' they may have created, which hasn't received Government assent.

It's also possible that at some future date, a different TERB member may receive this same letter, and start a thread about the topic. If i see that, I coulld 'kill the thread' by posting a link to THIS thread, which would allay all of that member's concerns. I have no problem in meeting the 'two piece' verification process with my Birth Certificate and this letter I received from the bank, which contains my name and home address. If the form letter had asked account holders to bring "this letter" with them to their branch along with their Birth Certificate, there would be no confusion whatsoever.

The SIN test was part of a quote in reply to @xmontrealer. He and I chat with each other in the midst of threads and in private conversations frequently, and I receive a lot of positive reaction score points from him. While he is older than most TERB members not using the Eddie Kerr handle, he hasn't ceased to want to acquire new information. The SIN portion, the larger text, and bold formatting was used to draw attention to that paragraph, for people who don't read all of posts longer than 48 typed characters.


I'm not trying to scam anyone into revealing their SIN. This is more like a 'magic trick', where 'a volunteer from the audience' is asked to participate. I watched the 1953 film Houdini in the early morning hours yesterday. A picture of Harry Houdini was used as a question in the Trivia-O-Rama thread around the same time. Hallowe'en 2026 will mark the 100th anniversary of Houdini's death. With the trivia question, I was wondering if any TERB member could recognize him from a photograph, even if they were familiar with his life accomplishments.

It's very possible that no one reading this thread know the formula used to determine the last number of a SIN. In my opinion, xmontrealer is one of the TERB members who would be interested in acquiring that knowledge.


I asked for ANY eight digit number containing two numerals below 5, and two above. If any TERB member chose to reveal their personal SIN as a number which satisfies those criteria, are there any more like them at home? This is semi 'parlour trick', and semi 'wow, I never knew that', and it's information I discovered independently, based in part on information gleaned from that 1984 insurance company job.

What would the last digit be for 406 718 36?
 

The Options Menu

A Not So New Member
Sep 13, 2005
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How do you know a health card doesn't work?

How about getting a government ID card?
Your health card is not supposed to be used as valid ID. Banks and Canada Post tend to be strict on that.

To the OP: Get an provincial photo card. It will save a lot of hassle if you don't have a driver's license and live in Ontario. (Purple card.)

Given that the bank wants you to go in in person makes it likely that they do indeed just want to check off some mandated ID box.
 

Geee

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2005
604
722
93
Something to Note: Health Card is usually not considered "valid" because it is not legal to record the health card number for non healthcare related purposes and not because banks are Federal or whatever.

If the institution is not planning to record the number in their database somewhere and just need a visual confirmation then the card IS a valid form of photo ID. But people are dumb and don't actually read the laws and just go "nope" and then make up some bullshit reason for it.
 
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onomatopoeia

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Update: Things have been sorted out FOR ME at the bank. I have requested a five minute audience with the bank manager; he's in the office tomorrow and Friday. I'll wait until after I've spoken with him to provide additional details. I'll have some interesting things to say about today's adventure.

I've met the bank manager once before, only briefly. My gut reaction is that he's a good man. I had a lower opinion of the branch manager in the position in 2017. I have mixed to low opinions of some of the staff.

There seems to be a high turnover rate among staff, or perhaps there may be some rotation between branches. I won't be asking the branch manager about that.

There was one bank teller working there very recently, but not during my last couple of visits. She's a really hot spinner, (8.5+ facially). I have seen her on the street walking to work, and she did mention that she lives near where I had seen her, but that was the extent of the conversation.

I hate paying for transportation and bank fees. Today I visited seven locations on a pre-planned route starting at Bloor - Spadina and ending at Dundas West near the top of Trinity-Bellwoods park round trip on one Presto card with a two hour usage limit.

I normally visit the bank about once every three months to withdraw enough cash to last three months. Some of the merchants with whom I do business don't charge tax for some goods and services if payment is received in cash, in advance of those goods and services. That same perk might not be offered to all customers. And no, I am NOT a freemason.

This is the lower case m glyph from my 'dingbat' font BeautyMarks, released in 2012:

bm-m.png

I see some structural similarities with the masonic 'compass and ruler' symbol:

71kwp7IlDfL._AC_SS350_-300x300.jpg

but that's just coincidental. I might have played the "Paul is dead' game if I had used the glyph for capital G. I like that glyph because in silhouette form, it's ambiguous as to whether we're looking at the figure from the front or the rear.

Some of the ladies of TERB appeared in the BeautyMarks font in silhouette form. Long time TERB members might be able to identify the model whose photograph from her website gallery was used to create this:

bmg.png

In this one, there is also ambiguity as to the observer's point of view - are they on the bed, looking at the silhouette against a venetian blinds background, or they a voyeur, looking through the open blinds of a window, with minimal light in the room?

BeautyMarks is free to download, and free for all use, personal and commercial. It has appeared on the websites of many agencies, including at least one in Toronto.

I received permission from the Escort whose gallery photograph was used for the G silhouette, and in return, she received a custom font with only the G glyph, prior to the release of the complete font. I intentionally placed THIS glyph in the vector cell reserved for capital G. I was about to type 'in the G spot', but that would have been misinterpreted.

Lauren Kirshner used some of the glyphs from BeautyMarks in her book Sex Work in Popular Culture. Lauren and I frequently exchange e-mails, but we've never met in person. She gifted me a free copy of her book, but that wasn't a term of commercial use.

I'm just keeping this thread on the front page, until after my meeting with the branch manager. Stay tuned. Even if the plot doesn't thicken, that, too, may be noteworthy.

This is Edison Carter of Network XXIII news, signing off.
 
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onomatopoeia

Bzzzzz.......Doink
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I did, and your point is?

Why don't you calm down? Excuse me. I was just trying to be helpful.
8) was the alternative choices available, ie Birth Certificate + utility bill or similar. This was covered in post #16. The branch manager wasn't in on Wednesday.

I'm hoping to see the branch manager today or tomorrow for a requested maximum of five minutes, but I was given several hoops to jump through first. I don't know if it's official branch policy that I must tell the assistant to the assistant branch manager and her supervisor the reason why I want to speak to the branch manager, or whether she was just being nosy. It might have been easier to have obtained the Wicked Witch of the West's broomstick instead.
 

xix

Time Zone Traveller
Jul 27, 2002
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8) was the alternative choices available, ie Birth Certificate + utility bill or similar. This was covered in post #16. The branch manager wasn't in on Wednesday.

I'm hoping to see the branch manager today or tomorrow for a requested maximum of five minutes, but I was given several hoops to jump through first. I don't know if it's official branch policy that I must tell the assistant to the assistant branch manager and her supervisor the reason why I want to speak to the branch manager, or whether she was just being nosy. It might have been easier to have obtained the Wicked Witch of the West's broomstick instead.
Show up with one. Then let us know what happened. If asked why you have one - tell the manager you are getting ready for Hallowee'n.
 
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