Trump gives Iran 48-hour ultimatum to reopen Strait of Hormuz: 'Hit and obliterate'

xmontrealer said:

Agreed. If the Iranian people had taken advantage of the first couple of weeks of the conflict to rise up and overthrow the regime, like Trump assumed they would, the attacks would have made sense.

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Without regime change the Iran war still makes as much sense to
Netanyahu, if not Trump, as the 12 days war from last year.

The war has already degraded Iran's military and decimated its
leadership well beyond the damage inflicted by the 12 day war.

What Netanyahu could hope for now is for Trump to beg for
truce first so Israel and the U.S. can replenish depleted
missile arsenal. By next year or perhaps near the end of this
year Trump the peacemaker can talk Iran into peace
negotiation again on the promise of lenient terms. Events to
follow are easily predictable. Iran would understand by then they
are dealing with a world class thug and its POS master who
would Pearl-Harbor them again. But they may have no choice
but to hope for the end of the conflict.

This is pretty much the hitler rationalization for war, isn't it?


And this is the dems moderate voice?

wigglee said:

Trump said he destroyed their nuclear program twice, yet the bombing continues. It is only a matter of time before a third party nation furnishes Iran with a nuke. Will will you say then?

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Will will I say then?

Nine countries possess nuclear weapons: the United States, Russia, France, China, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, India, Israel, and North Korea

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who who did you have in mind to do the dirty dirty deed?

Frankfooter said:

The areas we agree on seem to be getting larger, which is good. The Iran war, the trump blackmail and the state of the media in Israel and Lebanon.
Where do you sit on the stated goal of invading Lebanon?

Hezbollah is claiming they've destroyed over 100 Merkava, while there are reports of 21 being destroyed in one ambush. Either of which would be more than 5 IDF if one week.

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/israel-largest-tank-losses-40yrs-ambushes-21-merkava

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I want zero IDF in Lebanon. Bring UN peacekeepers back and starve Hezbollah by shutting down their finances via Iran. Israel is more willing to disclose their casualties, because their press is relentless and won't let them off the hook.

Hezbollah doesn't have the firepower or manpower to cause that kind of damage, and Israel killed a lot of Hezbollah leadership so getting accurate info from Lebanon is pretty challenging.

I still can't believe I've been to Metula and walked around there like it was nothing in 1991. Today if I did that I'd be accused of a serious deathwish.

Frankfooter said:

Then share your feed, if you can. I'm looking for more accurate news.

I'm glad to hear you are against this war but really, the change that needs to happen is with the 7 million Jews in Israel and the 7 million Palestinians.
Iran has a repressive government but so do a lot of countries, none are as warlike and shitty as Israel.

It was Israel that had america attack Iran.
They will forever be the aggressors as they are the occupiers of Palestine.

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US assessment is Israel 'not responsible' for hospital blast | AP News (ignore the story, just posting AP link for ME news)

I follow a few really good war correspondents that will never allow themselves to be muzzled because I want my news as neutral as possible.

Mark McKinnon - Globe and Mail
Rushdi Abualouf - BBC
Bethan McKernan - The Guardian
Emily Rose - Reuters (they also have an excellent feed for straight news without too much partisan commentary)

For internal Israeli criticism, I tend to read Gideon Levy and Ronen Bergman.

I also will check out Middle East Monitor, BBC News and even Al Jazeera. I'm a ferocious reader on this content. Some post-grad habits die hard....

Check out the important work done by Jeremy Diamond when he and his CNN crew were attacked by IDF soldiers in the West Bank.

What is happening in the West Bank under Netanyahu is completely unacceptable - period.

bggolfingmaniac said:

I still can't believe I've been to Metula and walked around there like it was nothing in 1991. Today if I did that I'd be accused of a serious deathwish.

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Same for me in 1970, with my parents and siblings.

Walking around Hebron and Ramallah with no issues.

Iran says its 'waiting' for US ground troops, as more American marines arrive in region | BBC News

bggolfingmaniac said:

I want zero IDF in Lebanon. Bring UN peacekeepers back and starve Hezbollah by shutting down their finances via Iran. Israel is more willing to disclose their casualties, because their press is relentless and won't let them off the hook.

Hezbollah doesn't have the firepower or manpower to cause that kind of damage, and Israel killed a lot of Hezbollah leadership so getting accurate info from Lebanon is pretty challenging.

I still can't believe I've been to Metula and walked around there like it was nothing in 1991. Today if I did that I'd be accused of a serious deathwish.

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Hezbollah, like Hamas, was created in resistance to Israeli occupation. Both have rights to exist and defend their peoples.
From what I'm hearing, Iran has been arming Hezbollah of late. Losing 21 tanks in one ambush doesn't bode well and the stories say that Hezbollah is now in Israel.
Though its true Israel is winning the hospitals war, having hit 26 hospitals and clinics to none being targeted by Hezbollah.

I'm curious, you don't seem worried that there are just as many Palestinians in Israel as Jews but that there are also 6 million Palestinian refugees living just outside the borders. You're not worried about Iran, Hezbollah, the Yemeni and Palestinians working together?

US assessment is Israel 'not responsible' for hospital blast | AP News

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(ignore the story, just posting AP link for ME news)

I follow a few really good war correspondents that will never allow themselves to be muzzled because I want my news as neutral as possible.

Mark McKinnon - Globe and Mail
Rushdi Abualouf - BBC
Bethan McKernan - The Guardian
Emily Rose - Reuters (they also have an excellent feed for straight news without too much partisan commentary)

For internal Israeli criticism, I tend to read Gideon Levy and Ronen Bergman.

I also will check out Middle East Monitor, BBC News and even Al Jazeera. I'm a ferocious reader on this content. Some post-grad habits die hard....

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Americans saying Israel didn't commit a war crime is a given every single time, isn't it? Its not like they are going to fund and then declare that cash was used for genocide.

Of those I've read Gideon Levy for years. Abualouf is good, but the others offer commentary from a distance that relies too heavily on government statements.
Middle East Monitor is good, Al J is great reporting, though they are now part of the war and not quite as open.

Albanese from the UN is a great source, though not for this war.

None of those sources are doing boots on the ground. CNN has a team now in Lebanon and Iran.
Courtney Bonneau is reporting live to the xitter in Lebanon, she's good.

Reporting is still very different, ISW says Iran's missiles have been hit hard, for instance, and that they have few functioning.
While the numbers they've been firing have been pretty steady after the initial burst and apparently very accurate.

bggolfingmaniac said:

Check out the important work done by Jeremy Diamond when he and his CNN crew were attacked by IDF soldiers in the West Bank.

What is happening in the West Bank under Netanyahu is completely unacceptable - period.

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This I agree with.

These hits are reported on the xitter but won't be verified by any news source.
Iran is still hitting military targets, not hospitals and homes.

Frankfooter said:

Hezbollah, like Hamas, was created in resistance to Israeli occupation. Both have rights to exist and defend their peoples.
From what I'm hearing, Iran has been arming Hezbollah of late. Losing 21 tanks in one ambush doesn't bode well and the stories say that Hezbollah is now in Israel.
Though its true Israel is winning the hospitals war, having hit 26 hospitals and clinics to none being targeted by Hezbollah.

I'm curious, you don't seem worried that there are just as many Palestinians in Israel as Jews but that there are also 6 million Palestinian refugees living just outside the borders. You're not worried about Iran, Hezbollah, the Yemeni and Palestinians working together?


https://apnews.com/live/israel-hamas-war-live-updates

Americans saying Israel didn't commit a war crime is a given every single time, isn't it? Its not like they are going to fund and then declare that cash was used for genocide.

Of those I've read Gideon Levy for years. Abualouf is good, but the others offer commentary from a distance that relies too heavily on government statements.
Middle East Monitor is good, Al J is great reporting, though they are now part of the war and not quite as open.

Albanese from the UN is a great source, though not for this war.

None of those sources are doing boots on the ground. CNN has a team now in Lebanon and Iran.
Courtney Bonneau is reporting live to the xitter in Lebanon, she's good.

https://twitter.com/cbonneauimages

Reporting is still very different, ISW says Iran's missiles have been hit hard, for instance, and that they have few functioning.
While the numbers they've been firing have been pretty steady after the initial burst and apparently very accurate.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2038036522033975410

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While I can stipulate why Hezbollah was created, they are firing missiles indiscriminately and IIRC are considered an official terrorist organization by most countries - apparently over 250 missiles/rockets this weekend alone fired into Israel at Jewish targets and 100% civilian targets too - hence why these warring parties need a 3rd party to be the adult in the room and re-create a DMZ. No one is trustworthy.

Nuclear Israel and their clearly bloodthirsty soulless PM are gonna keep those parties in check.

To each their own on sources, but as I've stated to you, you post a lot of dubious stuff that needs real vetting and you have even acknowledged that. I promise you if you posted more Gideon Levy and less Megatron retweets, it will likely result in more intelligent conversation.

We will have to 100% agree to disagree on Albanese. She's got a worse bias than almost anyone else on the subject and her immediate reax to 10-7 and beyond was all I needed to see on her.

What I really like about a few of those foreign correspondents is how they are NOT beholden to a country/regime.

Here is a new one for you - I'll go the extra mile and call what is happening in the West Bank in the last 18 months is a lot closer to the actual definition of genocide - several of my friends and I agree on this one. There you go, I said it.

Israel won't be safe until Iran's military capacity is completely depleted and neutralized, so that's what matters here. They need to feel the pain to open the Strait and a ground invasion would do the trick

bggolfingmaniac said:

While I can stipulate why Hezbollah was created, they are firing missiles indiscriminately and IIRC are considered an official terrorist organization by most countries - apparently over 250 missiles/rockets this weekend alone fired into Israel at Jewish targets and 100% civilian targets too - hence why these warring parties need a 3rd party to be the adult in the room and re-create a DMZ. No one is trustworthy.

Nuclear Israel and their clearly bloodthirsty soulless PM are gonna keep those parties in check.

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Israel violated the ceasefire with Lebanon 10,000 times. If you want to compare Hezbollah being a bunch of country's terror list vs Israel's leadership having ICC and ICJ warrants for genocide, feel free. You can argue about Hezbollah targets but you also have to admit Israel is dropping bombs on residential towers in Beirut, hitting hospitals and intentionally targeting medics and clinics. Not to mention clear statements by Israel leaders that their goal is to invade and occupy at least 10% of Lebanon.

To each their own on sources, but as I've stated to you, you post a lot of dubious stuff that needs real vetting and you have even acknowledged that. I promise you if you posted more Gideon Levy and less Megatron retweets, it will likely result in more intelligent conversation.

We will have to 100% agree to disagree on Albanese. She's got a worse bias than almost anyone else on the subject and her immediate reax to 10-7 and beyond was all I needed to see on her.

What I really like about a few of those foreign correspondents is how they are NOT beholden to a country/regime.

Click to expand...

You should read Albanese's reports, along with Amnesty, HRW, B'tselem and the UN reports. They are not biased, they are just clear.

Here is a new one for you - I'll go the extra mile and call what is happening in the West Bank in the last 18 months is a lot closer to the actual definition of genocide - several of my friends and I agree on this one. There you go, I said it.

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Thank you for saying that.
The next question is what do you do with a country that is guilty of genocide?

MorningWoodGlory22 said:

Israel won't be safe until Iran's military capacity is completely depleted and neutralized, so that's what matters here. They need to feel the pain to open the Strait and a ground invasion would do the trick

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Hormuz was open before the war and Iran was never going to attack Israel.
Sounds like the problem is Israeli aggressions making the entire world hate the country.

P0Pewlar said:

0:28 "makes people afraid to cross us" Buddy, how's Iran working out for you?

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Nobody wants to deal with americans now.
BRICS have bypassed american boycotts on Cuba.
The court case against Madero is a clown show.
The Iran war is losing the entire gulf while making Iran rich over higher oil prices and control of Hormuz.

And the world sees how you can beat america.

How is trump's coming global depression sitting with you?

MorningWoodGlory22 said:

Israel won't be safe until Iran's military capacity is completely depleted and neutralized, so that's what matters here. They need to feel the pain to open the Strait and a ground invasion would do the trick

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I'm no military expert, but Iran's coastline is long, 2400 miles and it's their turf. They're very well entrenched and have been putting up a great fight until from where they are now, I can't imagine it'll be any easier or better.
But what do I know.

P0Pewlar said:

I'm no military expert, but Iran's coastline is long, 2400 miles and it's their turf. They're very well entrenched and have been putting up a great fight until from where they are now, I can't imagine it'll be any easier or better.
But what do I know.

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And they know exactly where the US will be trying to land.

P0Pewlar said:

I'm no military expert, but Iran's coastline is long, 2400 miles and it's their turf. They're very well entrenched and have been putting up a great fight until from where they are now, I can't imagine it'll be any easier or better.
But what do I know.

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They haven't been putting up a great fight at all. They've been getting decimated. All they can do is launch missiles at defenceless Gulf States, and have done only minor damage to Israel. Meanwhile, the US and Israel have destroyed their leadership, air turrets, air force, naval force, and most of their ballistics are depleted.

The coastline is only relevant regarding the Strait of Hormuz. I agree they are well entrenched there, that's why putting pressure on them by targeting power plants or doing a ground invasion would be necessary.

Frankfooter said:

Hormuz was open before the war and Iran was never going to attack Israel.
Sounds like the problem is Israeli aggressions making the entire world hate the country.

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Except through their proxies Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthi's (HHH). Oct 7th was mainly Iran's doing.

MorningWoodGlory22 said:

Except through their proxies Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthi's. Oct 7th was mainly Iran's doing.

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No, Israel has been occupying Palestine for 78 years.
That shit started way before Hamas.

MorningWoodGlory22 said:

They haven't been putting up a great fight at all. They've been getting decimated. All they can do is launch missiles at defenceless Gulf States, and have done only minor damage to Israel. Meanwhile, the US and Israel have destroyed their leadership, air turrets, air force, naval force, and most of their ballistics are depleted.

The coastline is only relevant regarding the Strait of Hormuz. I agree they are well entrenched there, that's why putting pressure on them by targeting power plants or doing a ground invasion would be necessary.

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Whatever they have planned, one thing is for sure, it's going to be a massive mess and will last over a decade minimum.