Only one House Dem voted in favor of voter ID, proof of citizenship in US elections

Butler1000 said:

I honestly think you just plain elect too many positions. So many of your positions should just be hired ones in administration. Up hear we elect people primarily to watch the money, pass laws. Not enforce them or do paperwork.

It creates imo lots more opportunities for graft.

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I agree. Towards the end of the very long ballot, most people vote by party or not at all. They have no idea who the candidates are for largely administrative positions.

As far as more opportunities for graft, perhaps.

WyattEarp said:

For reference:

List of cases of electoral fraud in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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yikes !

Election fraud appears to be culturally embedded in the U.S.
that does not make it right or legal

silentkisser said:

Here's the thing, when the Democrats tried to pass a couple law a few years ago called the For the People Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act. Both were blocked because the GOP called it federal overreach. What the FPA would have done was automatically registered citizens to vote (or the ability to register to vote online), stop gerrymandering, and protect voters rights. This came in the wake of a bunch of red states passing laws that restricted voting by eliminating polling stations or cutting hours, along with other bullshit like purging voters lists.

Now, as for your claim about Obama's administration opening up mid-term gerrymandering...I can find no evidence about that. What I did find was that in 2010 census, several red states (or states led by the GOP) did some massive redistricting. Those state include North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and shockingly, Texas. I'm not saying Democrats haven't gerrymandered in the past (or even today), but all studies show red states are the worst offenders. In Canada, we don't really have gerrymandering because we have Elections Canada set the riding boundaries with all parties getting some input.

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Its amazing that people would go along with this plan and believe its really about voting fraud.

JohnLarue said:

you confuse yourself
I have never needed the GDP to tell me that voter ID is necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process. That is self evident
boarder control is also necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process

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But you are parroting the GOP line about what is actually going on with voter validation and what is needed to fix it.

if you voted in Canada you showed your ID, proving your citizenship.

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So even though you linked to the voter ID laws in Canada, you don't understand them?
That's interesting.
Please tell me how my utility bill proves my citizenship.

or did you have a hissy fit at the polling both and walk away from your chance to legally participate in the election process?

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I'm not as emotionally fragile as you, so hissy fits don't really happen.

Did you want to have 5,000 red necks from very safe blue Alberta / Saskatchewan ridings make the trip to your riding to register with no ID required?
They need to spend all that filthy oil money one way or another , a trip to Ontario ? see mom, dad, grandma afterword's ?why not ?

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Now you are talking about registering, not voter ID.
Don't you think you should be clear about what you are actually mad about before throwing your hissy fit?

Sure they do, read the title of this thread
All but one voting against is the party line vote,
A party line vote that required strategic co-ordination and communication

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LOL.
I forgot how dumb you are.
"The thread headline told me so!"

So sad.

Nope
The arguments against both boarder control and voter ID are ridiculous and disingenuous

You can not have open boarders and fund govt services.
There is no limit on the volume of people who will exploit that

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And now you've moved on away from voter ID completely, I see.

Which specific question was that?
Was it in a post from someone I have on ignore?

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It was from me.
I did assume you had me on ignore, but you are answering, so I guess not.

Once again -
Do you think the Canadian voter ID system is reasonable and fair?
Is it something the US should try to emulate?

Was it about the loonie lefty who wants to load up key ridings with a 100 + candidates, so granny cant find her preferred choice? (after she shows ID of course)

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No, it was about whether you support the Canadian Voter ID system or not.
The usefulness of a the "longest ballot" protest as a method to argue for proportional representation to replace single-member districts with plurality voting is an entirely different question.

WyattEarp said:

It's a good question, but its useful to contrast the U.S. election system with other Western democracies.
Canada just happens to be here at TERB under our nose sort of speak.

I wouldn't wish the U.S. system on Canada. You should be running away from it as fast as possible. Voters need to know the greatest care has been taken in running elections. This includes proper identification, ensuring chain of custody, etc.

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WyattEarp said:

I don't like the SAVE Act as it is written.

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This is a good point here.
You said earlier that you think both sides are too extreme here, and have followed that up with not liking the SAVE act.
You also have said that it is good to compare another system like Canada's to what goes on in the US.
(You also have talked about not liking the "50-different systems" federalization of the US system.

So.
Since you don't like the SAVE act and have expressed some interest in Canada's system (which more than one of us have linked to earlier in the thread), what would you like to see?

Acknowledging as you have that the SAVE act is too extreme, what would you offer as a compromise position to the Democrats?

silentkisser said:

ID isn't necessarily the issue with the SAVE act. The issue is they require a type of ID that a majority of Americans do not possess, or can easily or cheaply acquire. I haven't gone through the entire thread, so apologies if this has been posted before (or maybe several times). The SAVE act is basically designed to disenfranchise minorities and women. Here's how:

First, a driver's license is not adequate ID (except for five states where they have enhanced licenses), so people would need to bring a birth certificate (or passport...which also requires a birth certificate). Now, for the millions of women who've married and taken their husbands last name, they don't qualify because the names no longer match.

Under 50% of Americans have passports, and they cost about $165. They also take time. And, if everybody who wants to vote in November tries to get one, there is no way the system could handle so many applications. And, you need to do it in person. So, folks in rural areas would need to get all their paperwork, a photo, the fee, and then likely travel a distance (which could be pretty far) to a city where there is a passport office. That costs time and money, things a lot of poorer Americans do not have.

On a constitutional level, requiring people to pay money to get ID in order to vote boils down to a poll tax, which is something the 24 Amendment outlawed.

Finally, it should be pointed out that the number of undocumented people voting in US elections is ridiculously small. The Heritage Foundation (which is pretty hardcore rightwing, and published Project 2025) found only 40 instances of these people voting since the 1980s. That's a fraction of a fraction of people who voted, and no where near enough to swing 99.99999999% of elections.

In many ways, all this is is a voter suppression bill. They could significantly cut voter turnout from many people who would likely vote against the GOP. It unfairly burdens minorities and women, and would probably be thrown out by the Supreme Court (though with this group of corrupt right-wing judges, who knows). It is also just the latest game the GOP is playing to rig the mid-terms that started with Trump asking Texas to gerrymander the districts to help give the Republicans an extra seat or two. They know there will likely be a bloodbath in November, which is why they are pushing so hard for this bill to pass.

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The SAVE act deals both with voter registration and voter verification.
People seem to be mixing those things up somewhat when talking about it.

It also has stuff about the DOJ getting involved and criminal penalties and so on, which is another aspect.

WyattEarp said:

I don't support the SAVE Act as written, but I think IDs in today's world are necessary. As I said earlier, all of the issues with the SAVE Act could be banged out if the two parties would work together in Congress. You can waive fees for IDs, etc.

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Hence my earlier question about what would be an acceptable compromise for you.

It is not good for the U.S. to have 50 different election systems and rules particularly for Federal elections. One can argue all they want about this Red State has this and that restriction (often a common rule). That's why I think it is fair to compare this to the Canadian system for reference. Otherwise, it's just the usual political rhetoric coming straight from the U.S. liberal media without much reflection.

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This is a long-standing issue with "Federalism" and the way the US has the system set up in the first place.
That's a much bigger lift, of course.

PS- The Obama Administration opened up the mid-decade gerrymandering. Gerrymandering itself is quite common across most states but of course you know that. By the way over the years, TERB has been littered with well-meaning Canadians telling us how atrocious Red State gerrymandering is. Having some knowledge is often limiting.

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I'll leave the second part out.

Please explain what you are referring to with, "The Obama Administration opened up the mid-decade gerrymandering".

Valcazar said:

But you are parroting the GOP line about what is actually going on with voter validation and what is needed to fix it.

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But you are parroting the democrat line to ensure what is wrong remains intact

I have never needed the GDP to tell me that voter ID is necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process. That is self evident
boarder control is also necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process

So even though you linked to the voter ID laws in Canada, you don't understand them?
That's interesting.
Please tell me how my utility bill proves my citizenship.

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you do not understand the voter ID laws in Canada
option 2 : show two pieces of ID
A utility bill serves as a primary document to prove residency, address, or identity (e.g., for OHIP or Alberta ID). It supports citizenship applications by verifying physical presence when combined with official identification like a passport, birth certificate, or citizenship card

if you feel there is a loophole that permits a non citizen to vote illegally, then you should contact elections Canada

I'm not as emotionally fragile as you, so hissy fits don't really happen.

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bullshit
you let the success of others infuriate so much, that you demand billionaires should not be permitted to exist
... no fair
you have the emotional / intellectual stability of a child

Now you are talking about registering, not voter ID.
Don't you think you should be clear about what you are actually mad about before throwing your hissy fit?

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registration to vote in Canada requires identifying yourself
Don't you think you should be clear about what you are blithering about before making stupid accusations?

LOL.
I forgot how dumb you are.
"The thread headline told me so!"

So sad.

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i have never forgotten how stupid you are
''Billionaires should not be permitted to exist''
''open boarders and no voter ID are essential to the integrity of any democratic election process'
"unconditional support for corrupt and destructive politicians, anything to prevent those damn conservatives from gaining power'

you are a lemming, being directed towards the edge of the cliff

And now you've moved on away from voter ID completely, I see.

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you see what you want to see and choose to ignore what you do not like to see

It was from me.
I did assume you had me on ignore, but you are answering, so I guess not.

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es , you are on ignore. I apply this at my leasure as is my right to do so
so i still do not know what the question was
I am not going to review your posts as I have no desire for comic relief

Once again -
Do you think the Canadian voter ID system is reasonable and fair?

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it better than in the US

Do you think the Canadian immigration system under the liberals has been reasonable and fair ?

Is it something the US should try to emulate?

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Open boarders and no voter ID are policies that place the interest of the democrat party above the interest of the legal electorate
The status quo in the US is broken.
Open boarders and no voter ID policies need to be fixed

You can not have both open boarders and government funded social programs
There is no limit on the volume of people who would exploit this
Can you say child care fraud ?

No, it was about whether you support the Canadian Voter ID system or not.
The usefulness of a the "longest ballot" protest as a method to argue for proportional representation to replace single-member districts with plurality voting is an entirely different question.

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No a general election is far too serious a matter for attention seeking fools to screw around with, intentionally making he voting process more difficult for others who have the legal right to vote.

IF you feel you have a valid argument for election reform

1. Contact your member of Parliament
2. Gather signatures of like minded folks
3. Paint up a sign and go protest in Ottawa and hope nobody enacts the emergencies act

Valcazar said:

The SAVE act deals both with voter registration and voter verification.
People seem to be mixing those things up somewhat when talking about it.

It also has stuff about the DOJ getting involved and criminal penalties and so on, which is another aspect.

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So you will say anything to avoid confronting the fundamental issues

Open boarders and no voter ID are policies that place the interest of the democrat party above the interest of the legal electorate

You can not have both open boarders and government funded social programs
There is no limit on the volume of people who would exploit this

JohnLarue said:

But you are parroting the democrat line to ensure what is wrong remains intact

I have never needed the GDP to tell me that voter ID is necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process. That is self evident
boarder control is also necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process

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In all seriousness, the only reason you and the GOP are questioning election integrity is because Trump lost in 2020 and his ego couldn't take it...so he lied like a cheap rug, or believed lies that made no sense and did not stand up to scrutiny. Even the distributor of the film 2000 Mules has issued an apology to and stopped distributing it. And, the conservative think tank behind Project 2025 found so few instances of undocumented people illegally voting that it doesn't like to actually publish the results. And they were seriously looking over the last 40 years.

Finally, all those GOP folks that got elected back in 2020 never say that their races were rigged. I mean, it would make sense that if the Dems or a foreign government had the ability to hack the voting system or flood the zone with fake ballots they could have given the Dems a super strong majority in both the house and Senate (as well as any state races)? But that didn't happen.

Also, an undocumented person voting doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense either. I mean, it's a felony. That means jail time. And the reward is fairly tiny. High risk, low reward....doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense. In fact, many of the undocumented people they caught were folks who had permanent residency and thought they were allowed. But, the fact that they were caught shows that the system works...

I'm not going to bother going through the rest of your word salad. The bottom line is, both parties agree there should be ID for voting. However, the Dems area against stricter rules that suppress voting, and the SAVE Act is specifically designed to disenfranchise millions of people. There is no other word for it. As mentioned, a typical drivers license and utility bill won't cut it. A birth certificate and other ID might for men, but many married women will be unable to use that documentation. I know you pretend that the Dems want all the undocumented to vote, but that has never happened and it never would.

JohnLarue said:

So you will say anything to avoid confronting the fundamental issues

Open boarders and no voter ID are policies that place the interest of the democrat party above the interest of the legal electorate

You can not have both open boarders and government funded social programs
There is no limit on the volume of people who would exploit this

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You cannot use a debunked conspiracy theory as your only argument for this. They audit social programs and while they might find a few undocumented people getting benefits, that works out to a fraction of a fraction. And the numbers for those who illegally vote are even lower. So, spare us your bullshit.

silentkisser said:

So, spare us your bullshit.

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But without bullshit, what does LaRue have?

JohnLarue said:

But you are parroting the democrat line to ensure what is wrong remains intact

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Unless you think critiquing you is a Democratic Party talking point, you are more incorrect than usual.

I have never needed the GDP to tell me that voter ID is necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process. That is self evident
boarder control is also necessary to ensure the integrity of the election process

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So you have no opinion on the SAVE act at all?
Don't know what's in it and don't know what it is about?
You're just getting revved up over a headline?

you do not understand the voter ID laws in Canada

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LOL

option 2 : show two pieces of ID
A utility bill serves as a primary document to prove residency, address, or identity (e.g., for OHIP or Alberta ID). It supports citizenship applications by verifying physical presence when combined with official identification like a passport, birth certificate, or citizenship card

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How is it you can link to the elections canada website with the rules and still not understand what you've read or even repeat it correctly?

... no fair

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Are you complaining that someone not agreeing with you isn't fair?
Hilarious.

registration to vote in Canada requires identifying yourself

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Yes.
And identification for registration is not the same thing as voter validation at a polling place.

i have never forgotten how stupid you are
''Billionaires should not be permitted to exist''
''open boarders and no voter ID are essential to the integrity of any democratic election process'
"unconditional support for corrupt and destructive politicians, anything to prevent those damn conservatives from gaining power'

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LOL.
Well, one of those three is close to a position I hold.
(It was "Every billionaire is a policy failure.")

One out of three is better than you getting nothing right, I suppose.

es , you are on ignore. I apply this at my leasure as is my right to do so
so i still do not know what the question was
I am not going to review your posts as I have no desire for comic relief

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I anticipated, which is why I repeated the question.

it better than in the US

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But do you support it?

"Better than in the US" doesn't answer that.

Is it better than the SAVE act or once that is in place, will you be demanding Canada follow the US lead?

Do you think the Canadian immigration system under the liberals has been reasonable and fair ?

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Not particularly, but we are talking about the Democrats vote on the SAVE act.

You can not have both open boarders and government funded social programs

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What does this have to do with the SAVE act?

No a general election is far too serious a matter for attention seeking fools to screw around with, intentionally making he voting process more difficult for others who have the legal right to vote.

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So you're against the SAVE act and would have voted with the Democrats?

silentkisser said:

In all seriousness, the only reason you and the GOP are questioning election integrity is because Trump lost in 2020 and his ego couldn't take it...

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you are not a serious person and you think like a child

Election integrity is the foundation of democracy
Open boarders is a disaster in of itself
Open boarders and no voter ID undermine the election integrity in favour of one party
if you want to vote, get ID

Trump is a two term US president and is 79 years old
Thankfully he can not run again, so the bad man can not harm you
crawl out from under your covers and stop wetting the bed

JohnLarue said:

you are not a serious person and you think like a child

Election integrity is the foundation of democracy
Open boarders is a disaster in of itself
Open boarders and no voter ID undermine the election integrity in favour of one party
if you want to vote, get ID

Trump is a two term US president and is 79 years old
Thankfully he can not run again, so the bad man can not harm you
crawl out from under your covers and stop wetting the bed

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borders

JohnLarue said:

Trump is a two term US president and is 79 years old
Thankfully he can not run again

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Why do you think that?

You need ID for many other things , it should be also for voting..

JohnLarue said:

you are not a serious person and you think like a child

Election integrity is the foundation of democracy
Open boarders is a disaster in of itself
Open boarders and no voter ID undermine the election integrity in favour of one party
if you want to vote, get ID

Trump is a two term US president and is 79 years old
Thankfully he can not run again, so the bad man can not harm you
crawl out from under your covers and stop wetting the bed

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LOL

OK, if there was widespread voter fraud during the 2020 election, how come no GOP representative or Senator who won said that their race was tainted? I mean, simple logic would dictate that if the Dems had the ability to hack or alter/flood the polls with fake or altered ballots....why wouldn't they have given Joe Biden a super majority in both houses? Never before has a losing politician in the US lied and carried on like a pussy like Trump did. Hell, the Dems could've whined about Gore losing, when they sure as fuck had a good argument to keep with the recounts. But they didn't go on like Trump.

We can agree that election integrity is the foundation of democracy, but so is allowing those citizens to vote. Putting hurdles that will disenfranchise MILLIONS of citizens over something even conservative think tanks realize is not really an issue IS voter suppression. For democracy to function properly, wouldn't it make sense to make it easier for citizens to vote, not harder? And, as has been repeatedly pointed out (though you either chose to ignore it, or just don't like facts that put holes in your story), but there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud by undocumented. The numbers are so small they wouldn't impact a single race, let alone a presidential election. And, the reality here is, your spin is just stupid. Open borders do not give the Dems more votes, it only influences idiots like you who think it does.

As mentioned, both parties are OK with the idea of ID when it comes to registering to vote. The difference, as has been pointed out frequently here, that the ID the SAVE act wants is unobtainable for millions in time for November. Which is why Trump and the cult want it so bad. We know that mid-terms don't usually have huge turnouts, and incumbents have an advantage. But, with the Trump shit show going on, the GOP KNOWS they are going to be fucked up.

As for Trump, that idiot has already done enough damage to the US, both domestically and internationally. America will likely elect a democrat president who will have to spend YEARS fixing all the shit Trump broke or ruined, if that is even possible. You and so many on the right here are intellectual cucks. You get your speaking points from right-wing podcasts hosted by idiots paid by Russians. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic...