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2 Air Canada Pilots killed at Laguardia

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The Mechanic

The Mechanic

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Some people are missing the point, there were 2 firefighters in the cab of truck 1, a driver and an assistant. I know when I worked at the airport for 8 years you were always on the lookout! You be driving and then all of a sudden the plane pulls back from the terminal surprise surprise. You get authorization to clear 1533 Stoplight Rd. yes I had a green light and yes there was a stretch DC 8 just over the 401 coming into land. So it’s decision time do I cut the plane off either scared the hit of the pilot or force ago around or do I stop let the plane pass yeah I stopped but that also shows you what’s going on at airports, by the weight that was during the daylight at night time it’s totally different I know when I was driving out there I had a helper in the passenger seat is job keep his eyes open because at night time it’s a real thrill. Now as for the radio I know airport emergency services are designated red 1 ,red2 and so on. Inside each vehicle you have several radios on different frequency 1 ground to emergency services common 3 AOCC and they have their portable units how come nobody was listening to the radios. The only thing I can think was they were responding to another emergency across the field and they were so focused on getting there that they forgot to look left and right. It’s sad but I hope they learned something out of it. Toronto when I was there had one fire hall right in the central field now they have to north and south that’s a good thing because at one plane that that the hard landing and flipped over and lost the wing that was basically right in front of North fire hall didn’t have to go that far.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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K Douglas said:
The controller will be put on leave to figure out why he made such an egregious mistake. Not easy to just shrug it off
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There will be massive lawsuits since it involved airport crew error.

I don't feel too sorry for the stewardess cause she's going to make a few $million off all this
 
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superstar_88

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blacksnacks said:
I watched a YT vid of a lawyer and she said end of the day the landing plane always has the right of way.
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Wouldn't this be obvious without having to watch a youtube video.
 
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Carpa

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SchlongConery said:
The pilots bodies were both found on the firetruck. What a horrific way to go. The remaining Flight Attendant and passengers are to be commended for evacuating safely. People often forget that the first duty of a FA is for safety in exactly these circumstances. Not serving coffee.
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Terrible
 
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PvtJoker

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GameBoy27 said:
Which is why it makes sense to have emergency stop and look before they enter a runway. Also, why did the fire truck not respond to ATC instructing them to stop, stop stop, stop?
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In answer to your first question; they were stopped, they asked for clearance and then entered the runway.

In answer to your second question; the inside of that fire cab was a very busy environment and the crew were focussed on a job, very easy to miss a radio call. Second potential explanation is that the Truck was listening to tower freq and the controler (who was working both ground and tower) sent the stop instruction on ground freq by mistake.
 
SchlongConery

SchlongConery

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PvtJoker said:
In answer to your first question; they were stopped, they asked for clearance and then entered the runway.

In answer to your second question; the inside of that fire cab was a very busy environment and the crew were focussed on a job, very easy to miss a radio call. Second potential explanation is that the Truck was listening to tower freq and the controler (who was working both ground and tower) sent the stop instruction on ground freq by mistake.
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In watching the cctv video it does not appear the fire truck stopped anywhere near the runway. The video shows them proceeding at a steady speed of maybe 30 km/h as they approached and entered the runway. Looks like the driver saw the plane at the last moment and tried to turn to the left to avoid it.

As for the second point.. the video shows the other fire trucks stopped several hundred feet back.

Not drawing any conclusions but just keeping the discussion on track.

 
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The Mechanic

The Mechanic

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SchlongConery said:
Correct.

However, you might want to stop using the word "tarmac". There is NO such thing in aviation. It was used briefly in the olden days to describe the Apron area that might have been paved with Tarmacadam.

"Tarmac" is a shortened version of Tarmacam, a portmanteau of Tar and MacAdam which was a process used to describe a primitive asphalt roadbuilding process using tar and stone chips invented by a Scottish Engineer John MacAdama in the 1800's

NO pilot, Controller nor anyone on the airport or in aviation uses the word "Tarmac". Nobody. Only uninformed members of the Press who immediately demonstrate they don't have a clue about what they are talking about.

Not scolding you, just giving you and others some background to be better informed.


Airports have:

-Runways. (where this entire collision occurred). This is the area where the aircraft land and take off from. This strip is controlled SOLELY by the "Tower" Controller.

-Taxiways, that aircraft use to 'taxi' to the

-Aprons which are the areas in which the aircraft move around to get to the

-Gates. Which are the numbered parking spots at big airports where airliners park to load and unload passengers.

The "Ground" Controller is responsible for controlling aircraft movements from the moment they want to move from the Gate, their parking spot or anywhere on the Apron to the line on the taxiway just before the Runway where they are 'handed off' to the Tower Controller for take off clearance.

The Ground Controller is also responsible for the safe movement of the aircraft once it has landed and has exited the runway and has stopped on the other side of the Taxiway/Runway line and wants to go anywhere on the airport on the ground.

Sometimes, the same person acts as the Ground Controller and the Tower Controller. At smaller airports, or when there is less traffic like overnight, or when someone goes on break, or if there is short staffing.


At smaller airports or for private aircraft parking or commercial cargo operations like Fedex, US etc use their private and/or general aviation parking apron (s) for movements that are not controlled by the airport's "Air Traffic Control" system.

Hope this helps!
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SchlongConery said:
Correct.

However, you might want to stop using the word "tarmac". There is NO such thing in aviation. It was used briefly in the olden days to describe the Apron area that might have been paved with Tarmacadam.

"Tarmac" is a shortened version of Tarmacam, a portmanteau of Tar and MacAdam which was a process used to describe a primitive asphalt roadbuilding process using tar and stone chips invented by a Scottish Engineer John MacAdama in the 1800's

NO pilot, Controller nor anyone on the airport or in aviation uses the word "Tarmac". Nobody. Only uninformed members of the Press who immediately demonstrate they don't have a clue about what they are talking about.

Not scolding you, just giving you and others some background to be better informed.


Airports have:

-Runways. (where this entire collision occurred). This is the area where the aircraft land and take off from. This strip is controlled SOLELY by the "Tower" Controller.

-Taxiways, that aircraft use to 'taxi' to the

-Aprons which are the areas in which the aircraft move around to get to the

-Gates. Which are the numbered parking spots at big airports where airliners park to load and unload passengers.

The "Ground" Controller is responsible for controlling aircraft movements from the moment they want to move from the Gate, their parking spot or anywhere on the Apron to the line on the taxiway just before the Runway where they are 'handed off' to the Tower Controller for take off clearance.

The Ground Controller is also responsible for the safe movement of the aircraft once it has landed and has exited the runway and has stopped on the other side of the Taxiway/Runway line and wants to go anywhere on the airport on the ground.

Sometimes, the same person acts as the Ground Controller and the Tower Controller. At smaller airports, or when there is less traffic like overnight, or when someone goes on break, or if there is short staffing.


At smaller airports or for private aircraft parking or commercial cargo operations like Fedex, US etc use their private and/or general aviation parking apron (s) for movements that are not controlled by the airport's "Air Traffic Control" system.

Hope this helps!
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Mr. Conery you have a very very big job in front of you. You are correct I don’t know where they got it started but tarmac is used frequently but you pointed out apron is a correct terminology. I noticed on the news on CNN the reporters are getting everything confused tarmac runway or taxiway yes the plane lands on the runway the plane exits the runway by a taxiway and then goes to gate assignment which is apron. Now the people down south are saying the plane landed on the tarmac runway the plane ended up on the runway tarmac so on so forth. But I think it’s due to society interchanging of words when I was working at the airport you had 3 words you didn’t want to hear Mayday, pan, security. Mayday is used when there is an extreme emergency to aircraft or crew passengers. Pan is used for a probable problem with the aircraft. Security is used when there is something just not right you know somebody shoe is smoking or going tick tick tick. Now for the bonus point what does pan stand for and somebody please explain to me why Mayday is now code 7700?
 
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SchlongConery

SchlongConery

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The Mechanic said:
Mr. Conery you have a very very big job in front of you. You are correct I don’t know where they got it started but tarmac is used frequently but you pointed out apron is a correct terminology. I noticed on the news on CNN the reporters are getting everything confused tarmac runway or taxiway yes the plane lands on the runway the plane exits the runway by a taxiway and then goes to gate assignment which is apron. Now the people down south are saying the plane landed on the tarmac runway the plane ended up on the runway tarmac so on so forth. But I think it’s due to society interchanging of words when I was working at the airport you had 3 words you didn’t want to hear Mayday, pan, security. Mayday is used when there is an extreme emergency to aircraft or crew passengers. Pan is used for a probable problem with the aircraft. Security is used when there is something just not right you know somebody shoe is smoking or going tick tick tick. Now for the bonus point what does pan stand for and somebody please explain to me why Mayday is now code 7700?
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The continued use of "tarmac" by the breathless media bingo callers proves to me, yet again, that in the effort to sound like they are educated, knowledgable and informed on a matter they are reporting on, that they are not. They just want to sound like they are. By using the word "tarmac" it immediately signals they do NOT have even rudimentary knowledge of aviation.

Even if they were using the work correctly like the "tarmac Runway" or "tarmac Apron" they are still wrong. The runway at major airports landing heavy jets is usually concrete, not even asphalt.

The origin of the phraseology "Pan-Pan" comes from the French word "panne" which means (mechanical) "breakdown".

"Mayday" comes from the French phrase "m'aider" or "help me".

As for the meaning and usage of "Pan-Pan". You are correct, it is the international maritime and aeronautical radio urgency signal, repeated three times to indicate a serious situation that is not immediately life-threatening. It signifies a step below Mayday—used for imminent danger—and requests priority handling for situations like engine failure, a lost vessel, or medical issues.

The United crew should have used "Pan Pan" not declared an Emergency. It is my opinion, based on the tone of the United Karen pilot, that they did not themselves consider it an "Emergency" and just cried wolf to get a Gate faster. They're offered airstairs, but declined, saying they'd wait until they could get a Gate. If you think you can wait for a Gate at LGA when you have an "odour" after rejecting two takeoffs, you don't have any reasonable belief you are on fire. Besides, United 737-MAX's have a brake temperature sensing system that will tell them the exact temp of the wheel assemblies.

As for "Code 7700".

Aircraft have encoding radar transponders that reply to ground radar interrogations with a 4 number code to identify an aircraft. You get assigned a temporary code for each flight so ATC can identify which blip you are.

If you have an Emergency, you change your assigned code to 7700 and every ATC's radar display will alarm and light you up as being in an Emergency situation. This is in addition to you declaring an Emergency on the radio.

There are other Transponder codes. 7500 is for hijacking, 7600 is for Loss of Radio communications, and 1200 is for an aircraft flying VFR (Visual Flight Rules) and not under active control of radar based ATC. Just flying around in uncontrolled airspace or at VFR Tower controlled airport.

Aircraft transponders are switched to "Standby" after exiting the active runway and not switched to ON until you take the active runway to take off.
 
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The Oracle

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PvtJoker said:
In answer to your first question; they were stopped, they asked for clearance and then entered the runway.

In answer to your second question; the inside of that fire cab was a very busy environment and the crew were focussed on a job, very easy to miss a radio call. Second potential explanation is that the Truck was listening to tower freq and the controler (who was working both ground and tower) sent the stop instruction on ground freq by mistake.
Click to expand...
 
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