Quebec’s secularism law in front of the Canadian supreme court

Hephaestus

Well-known member
Sep 25, 2025
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This has to do with workplace not what people choose to do on the streets or at home. Quebec will separate if forced to take this back, this will push them over the edge like nothing else did.

The law prohibits certain Quebec public sector workers from wearing religious symbols at work and requires them to perform their duties with their faces uncovered

On the first of four days of hearings over Bill 21, six groups opposing the province’s secularism law told the Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) that it violated a litany of Charter rights, including religious and language freedoms, multiculturalism and gender equality.

They also argued that the province’s invocation of the Charter’s notwithstanding clause was not enough to suspend the plethora of rights they say are undercut by the controversial bill, some of which cannot be suspended via the clause.
“Bill 21 states that there exists something fundamentally wrong and harmful with religious practices, some of them in particular, from which we must protect the public,” argued Olga Redko, lawyer for Ichrak Nourel Hak and other Muslim teachers in the province.

Throughout the first day of hearings, the three judges from Quebec (Chief Justice Richard Wagner and judges Nicholas Kasirer and Suzanne Côté) and Malcolm Rowe from Newfoundland were particularly active, frequently jumping in with questions or pushback on certain arguments.

Both Rowe and Wagner both suggested at different moments that the law must be looked at through the prism of Quebec’s “very distinct” decision of separation of church and state. Wagner pointed out that it dates back to the Quiet Revolution in the 1960s, whereas Rowe noted that the province’s secular vision is akin to that of France.

Opponents of the law in court include the English-Montreal School Board, the World Sikh Organization, teacher and religious groups and an association representing Jewish jurists, while its defenders include the Quebec government and state secularism advocacy groups, who will argue their case Tuesday.

The law — colloquially known as Bill 21 — prohibits certain Quebec public sector workers, such as judges, police officers, teachers and prison guards, from wearing religious symbols at work and requires them to perform their duties with their faces uncovered.

To pass his flagship Bill 21 in 2019, Quebec Premier François Legault invoked section 33 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, known as the notwithstanding clause.


The clause allows a government to override certain Charter rights for up to five years, at which point the use of the power must be reviewed. It’s been invoked increasingly by Alberta, Quebec and Ontario in recent years.
In 2024, Quebec’s Court of Appeal upheld virtually all aspects of the province’s secularism law based on the invocation of the notwithstanding clause.

The issue on trial is far broader than Quebec’s secularism law.

Fundamentally, the case is about whether there should be limits to a province’s power to invoke the notwithstanding clause, a cornerstone of the Charter that convinced most provinces to sign on to the document in 1982.

At the time, provinces argued that it was a necessary balance between the power of the legislature and that of courts.

Quebec, Ontario and Alberta as well as secularism groups argue that the text of the Charter sets no limits on the invocation of the notwithstanding clause, and to do so would amount to a constitutional amendment by the top court.

But the federal government argued in its written submissions that the notwithstanding clause wasn’t created with the intent of repeat invocation to the point of suspending those Charter rights indefinitely. Instead, it argued that use of the notwithstanding clause should be limited, though it left how to the court.

Many groups challenging Bill 21 have put forward similar arguments all the while also pushing for the SCC to recognize that courts have the right to determine if legislation violates Charter rights even if the notwithstanding clause is invoked.

If accepted by Canada’s top court, the proposal could create the first ever substantive limit to the use of the increasingly popular notwithstanding clause.

But questions and comments from certain judges on Monday suggested there is skepticism on the bench that the SCC should impose any substantive limits of changes on the notwithstanding clause.
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in his pleading, the lawyer for Quebec teacher union Fédération Autonome de l’Enseignement argued that times had changed since 1982, and provinces were emboldened to use the notwithstanding clause both more frequently and pre-emptively to shield its legislation.

The lawyer, Frédéric Bérard, told the court that nothing would prevent a future Canadian “mini-Trump” from invoking the notwithstanding clause.

“Everything, or almost, that is happening in the United States could happen here in a perfectly constitutional manner” due to the current interpretation of the clause, Bérard told the court.

“We can no longer analyse (section) 33 in the same way that we did” back in the 1980s, he added, suggesting that the SCC could “reverse or enhance” the notwithstanding clause in light of the “new reality”.

“You are asking us to make a constitutional amendment,” Justice Suzanne Côté replied flatly.

On Monday, the lawyer for the English-Montreal School Board argued that Bill 21 disproportionately impacted Muslim women who wear the hijab, which means it also contravened gender equality rights in the Charter that can’t be overridden by the notwithstanding clause.

The Court is sitting as a panel of seven judges since Justice Mahmud Jamal recused himself from the case last year following a request from the Quebec government.

To maintain an odd-numbered bench, Justice Mary Moreau — the most junior judge on the SCC — is also absent from them bench.

Hearings are scheduled for three hours daily over four days from Monday to Thursday, making it one of the longest cases ever heard by the SCC. It also involves over 40 appellants, respondents and intervenors, the most in the Court’s 150-year history.

Before hearings began, a few dozen opponents of Bill 21 demonstrated in front of the Supreme Court building.

 

jalimon

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
8,579
9,435
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We want immigrants to integrate into our society.

Do what you want at home, but if you immigrate to Quebec, you need to adapt to public service rules that are not determined by religion.

If you are unwilling to do that, don't come to Quebec.

We saw and still see how it's going in Europe, and I think it's a very good bill to have.
 

Carpa

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2025
567
322
63
We want immigrants to integrate into our society.

Do what you want at home, but if you immigrate to Quebec, you need to adapt to public service rules that are not determined by religion.

If you are unwilling to do that, don't come to Quebec.

We saw and still see how it's going in Europe, and I think it's a very good bill to have.
I agree, they should stay home instead of killing their children that want to westernize in honour killings.
 

jalimon

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
8,579
9,435
113
I agree, they should stay home instead of killing their children that want to westernize in honour killings.
The first generation is the worst.

Rarely can the first generation of immigrants adapt to their new country. This is sad, and we need to make a break from that. We are way too nice in Canada.
 

Burldude

Best saturday is golfing and seeing an SP.
May 28, 2022
1,481
1,919
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We want immigrants to integrate into our society.

Do what you want at home, but if you immigrate to Quebec, you need to adapt to public service rules that are not determined by religion.

If you are unwilling to do that, don't come to Quebec.

We saw and still see how it's going in Europe, and I think it's a very good bill to have.
I am born and raised in Quebec. I only immigrated to Ontario when I was 25 years old. I still feel like an immigrant even in my own country.

I think like you the religion should be a home thing and should also apply to the catholic religion and eliminate all public funding for catholic school board in Quebec and everywhere in Canada.

Fuck, did I ever got into a fight with my father which supported this bill but I dare to question the catholic cult.
 
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Carpa

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2025
567
322
63
The first generation is the worst.

Rarely can the first generation of immigrants adapt to their new country. This is sad, and we need to make a break from that. We are way too nice in Canada.
Depends on their culture, the Italians, portoghese, Filipinos all blended. They all have their church parades and saints but have integrated.
 

seanzo

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2008
709
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I can see the Supreme Court ruling against Quebec because muh social justice. They've made an absolute mockery of the constitution since it came into effect. Giving them the ability to set legal precedents that cannot be over turned by an elected government was probably the biggest mistake we've made as a nation. It's made it so that we are ruled by judicial fiat rather than the will of the people
 
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jalimon

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
8,579
9,435
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Depends on their culture, the Italians, portoghese, Filipinos all blended. They all have their church parades and saints but have integrated.
That is true. Maybe these people do not go here with the idea of assimilation, like the Muslim.
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
16,548
3,198
113
Ghawar
Though unofficial, I believe growth of our population to a range of 70--80 million 40
decades from now is a goal in our government's long term immigration policy. We
cannot be too fussy over the assimilation of newcomers if we want to double our
population in the foreseeable future. To me our population would better be capped
at 45 million.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
90,215
146,083
113
We want immigrants to integrate into our society.

Do what you want at home, but if you immigrate to Quebec, you need to adapt to public service rules that are not determined by religion.

If you are unwilling to do that, don't come to Quebec.

We saw and still see how it's going in Europe, and I think it's a very good bill to have.
Weird how Ontario does so much better economically than Quebec and lets immigrants bring their culture with them into public spaces, huh?

Maybe we're smarter here.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
90,215
146,083
113
Depends on their culture, the Italians, portoghese, Filipinos all blended. They all have their church parades and saints but have integrated.
You realize that the Quebec law also bans yarmulkes and wearing crucifixes, huh?
 

jalimon

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
8,579
9,435
113
Weird how Ontario does so much better economically than Quebec and lets immigrants bring their culture with them into public spaces, huh?

Maybe we're smarter here.
At what social cost? Who can say Brampton is a great example of integration? Brampton is not a Canadian city anymore...

As I wrote before, we need to simply stand firm and not be afraid to ask our immigrants to blend in, to assimilate into our Canadian culture and values.

I am sure the vast majority of the people of the UK would have loved such a law that Quebec is trying to instate now.

p.s. The fact that Muslims do not want to integrate is completely lead by their religion. They want to assimilate the world into their fucking shitty religion (sorry for the words, I just hate religion...)
 

Josephine

Carpe Diem
Nov 6, 2023
1,208
2,479
113
Etobicoke
Wearing religious signs doesn't prevent you from doing a good job.

All of this started when the Jews asked the YMCA's gym to blurry their windows so they couldn't see the women who workout. For some reasons, the news came out in the media and the government, instead of just saying no, asked the population. That's when we got our first "accomodement raisonable" conference and that we discovered that Quebec is deeply rooted in racism. Montreal not so much but rural QC..then Legault based part of his campaign on this electorat and now here we are.

We didn't need to do that. We could just put our panties on, say no when needed, and not adopt racist Laws.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
16,548
3,198
113
Ghawar
We want immigrants to integrate into our society.
.................................
We want to bring in immigrants who would be ready
to integrate into our society on their own. I'd rather
not to need to introduce laws to enforce integration.

Just bring in the most qualified. For instance, someone
who holds an advanced science and engineering degree
from a respected Canadian school with professional experience
is very unlikely to shy away from integration irrespective of
his or her religion.
 

Carpa

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2025
567
322
63
When was the last honour killing in Canada, dude?
Any one honour killing is horrible, even if it took place a few years ago. In the US its about 27 women or girls a year, globally its a big problem.We don't want more here.
 
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