An AC jet collided with a fire truck at Laguardia killing the 2 pilots.
2 Air Canada Pilots killed at Laguardia
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Jesus, how do you even screw up that bad as an air traffic controller
Well somebody screwed up! When I got my Avop license I was told the pecking order is 1 aircraft 2 emergency service vehicle crashed trucks fire department ambulance police 3 service vehicles that would be your trucks giving food to the aircraft luggage mules aircraft push backs. Once the aircraft got the okay to land that’s his property no one else’s including emergency vehicles.
The air traffic controller was quoted saying “I messed up” right afterwards and a pilot was trying console him. Brutal.
That's terrible, I feel for everyone involved, that controller is probably going to have a rough time that's for sure
Yes, that must feel terrible for the Controller.
Core problem is that the FAA is grossly underfunded and mismanaged. This single Controller was manning and acting in three separate positions. Clearance Delivery, Ground Control and Tower Controller. He had many planes looking for pre-engine start Clearance Delivery, handling multiple aircraft and multiple ground vehicles, multiple Emergency vehicles, multiple aircraft taxiing for departure to the runways, multiple aircraft taxiing from the runways to the Terminal AND handling multiple aircraft in the air on final approach and landing. And coordinating hand-offs with the Approach Controllers and Departure Controllers.
He had WAYYYYYYY too much going on and this was an inevitable result that just happened to occur because of momentary human brain glitch. Likely precipitated by a feeling of urgency to get the Fire Truck to another aircraft sitting on a taxiway that reported an unusual door in the cabin. This can sometimes indicate the plane is about to burst into flames, so there is a sense of urgency when the Pilot calls for a fire truck. This is sometimes called 'task fixation'.
"Task fixation is a dangerous cognitive error where attention becomes locked on a single goal, detail, or problem, causing a loss of situational awareness and the neglect of other critical information. Often called "tunnel vision," it occurs in high-stress or complex environments, leading to the failure to recognize risks or changing conditions."
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This understaffing happens ALL over the United States at most major airports as a result of chronic underfunding and mismanagement at the the FAA. I'm surprised this is the first time it's happened. These Air Traffic Controllers are playing 10 games of 4D chess all at once. As a demonstration of his training and expertise, look at how he handled the ensuing chaos. Still carried on with the other aircraft, rolling other rescue equipment etc in a (relatively, calm, professional manner.
I feel for the guy. Yes, he was responsible for the error in clearing the fire truck across the active runway right in front of an aircraft that was already landing. But he was given an almost impossible task in handling so much traffic in so many roles. Him being forced by circumstances to take on this illegal multi-tasking is unconscionable.
Those poor Air Canada Jazz pilots didn't stand a chance and died in horror. What a tragedy. RIP Airmen. Rest in peace.
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Here is a link to professional airline pilots forum discussing the accident. If anyone wants some real expert, experienced insight. Not just the talking heads babbling away breathlessly.
AC-LGA Landing Collision - PPRuNe Forums
Accidents and Close Calls - AC-LGA Landing Collision - Originally Posted by cLeArIcE Such a sad outcome. But worse still, not completely unexpected. It was only a matter of time. Whether this is simple human error or whatever the cause, the system in the US is very broken and the safety envelope...
www.pprune.org
CNN just played audio of the controller actually saying "I messed up." Lawyers are gonna get rich off this one.
Or the complete opposite. A human error is more easily made since Trump fucked up with controllers, as his government is also doing for healthcare.
Not really, planes are not structurally strong as a fire rescue truck as planes are made of aluminum and not solid steel like the truck.
That flight attendant in the jump seat in cockpit is lucky to be alive as they were thrown onto tarmac upon impact and still strapped into seat.
The very heavy off-road fire truck was struck a glancing blow on the right rear corner. Airport fire crews are isolated in the heavily reinforced cab where they fight the fire from.
The pilots were in the pointy end of an aluminium beer can monocoque structure which has no impact protection designed into it. Also, the small CRJ jets have a very short landing gear and therefore the impact with the big tall fire truck would be a head on collision.
versus
Correct.
However, you might want to stop using the word "tarmac". There is NO such thing in aviation. It was used briefly in the olden days to describe the Apron area that might have been paved with Tarmacadam.
"Tarmac" is a shortened version of Tarmacam, a portmanteau of Tar and MacAdam which was a process used to describe a primitive asphalt roadbuilding process using tar and stone chips invented by a Scottish Engineer John MacAdama in the 1800's
NO pilot, Controller nor anyone on the airport or in aviation uses the word "Tarmac". Nobody. Only uninformed members of the Press who immediately demonstrate they don't have a clue about what they are talking about.
Not scolding you, just giving you and others some background to be better informed.
Airports have:
-Runways. (where this entire collision occurred). This is the area where the aircraft land and take off from. This strip is controlled SOLELY by the "Tower" Controller.
-Taxiways, that aircraft use to 'taxi' to the
-Aprons which are the areas in which the aircraft move around to get to the
-Gates. Which are the numbered parking spots at big airports where airliners park to load and unload passengers.
The "Ground" Controller is responsible for controlling aircraft movements from the moment they want to move from the Gate, their parking spot or anywhere on the Apron to the line on the taxiway just before the Runway where they are 'handed off' to the Tower Controller for take off clearance.
The Ground Controller is also responsible for the safe movement of the aircraft once it has landed and has exited the runway and has stopped on the other side of the Taxiway/Runway line and wants to go anywhere on the airport on the ground.
Sometimes, the same person acts as the Ground Controller and the Tower Controller. At smaller airports, or when there is less traffic like overnight, or when someone goes on break, or if there is short staffing.
At smaller airports or for private aircraft parking or commercial cargo operations like Fedex, US etc use their private and/or general aviation parking apron (s) for movements that are not controlled by the airport's "Air Traffic Control" system.
Hope this helps!
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The FAA can be sued for damages in the case of ATC negligence or mistakes. But the individual controller will not be held personally liable.
Air Traffic Control and the Discretionary Function - Curry, Pearson & Wooten
Air Traffic Controllers go through extensive training and are trained to be able to handle most every situation that may arise.
www.azlaw.com
To be fair, this chronic underfunding of the FAA and mismanagement has been a problem for decades and through multiple Administrations.
Reagan got blamed for putting the wheels in motion when he fired almost all FAA Controllers who went on strike. But the controllers went on strike for the very same reasons that still exist in the system. Understaffing, old technology, mismanagement etc. And he did fuck all about it, just made it worse. Like Trump and fElon did with DOGE.
To be fair, the FAA has made big advances in ATC systems like ADS-B equipment that aircraft must now carry that make them visible to other aircraft and ATC independent of ground based radar, electronic filing and routing of flight pans, electronic c=datalinks for airliners to get updated enrolee flight pan route changes and clearances etc. But there is much more to be done.
Being an Air Traffic Controller is one of the more difficult, complex, intensive concentration and spatially/situationally aware and foreseeing jobs there is. You have to keep so many moving objects apart in 3 dimensions, predicting where they will be in seconds and minutes into the future, where to move someone when someone else fails to follow instructions or deviates from heir path and a thousand other things. There are very few people whose brains are even wired correctly for the complexities of this job. So it is not even the money. With so few with these mental capabilities even thinking of being an Air Traffic Controller, it's hard to find people to fill the positions. And then, they have to get experience and work their way up from small airports to busier ones.
And a single minded linear thinker like Trump can hardly play checkers so he can't be blamed for taking on something like FAA reform while he is issuing Social Media ultimatums to foreign governments to send battleships to escort oil tankers or to let tankers through in 48 hours.
Air Traffic Control and the US air transportation system doesn't make for good Reality TV.
Being overworked, and Task Fixation on trying to get a fire truck to a jet full of passengers with an oder in the cabin. Pilots are notoriously understated and like to sound like Cool Hand Luke so when they say "Ahhhhhh, this is United 1234 Heavy. We have an adorable in the cabin, please roll the equipment" in that deep pilot voice ... you know the plane could burst into flames in moments. Seriously.
"Task fixation is a dangerous cognitive error where attention becomes locked on a single goal, detail, or problem, causing a loss of situational awareness and the neglect of other critical information. Often called "tunnel vision," it occurs in high-stress or complex environments, leading to the failure to recognize risks or changing conditions."
Thanks for bringing your TDS to the conversation. If a squirrel gets hit by a car, we know who to blame.
