It Is Treason for Trump and Congress To Fund Israel and Make War on Iranians

bggolfingmaniac said:

Brilliant response when you don't bring facts to the big boy table.

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Its the same logic.
If Jews who lived in Palestine have the rights to the land now then your home is owned by natives here.
If you don't move out now and give them to it then your views are bullshit.

Instead Israel is trying to take half of Lebanon and you're going to blame Lebanese.

crocket said:

You repeat the same bullshit over and over.

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you ignore what you do not want to hear

i provided you with facts:
you ignore the facts

the extermination / genocide of Israel is the only acceptable solution for you, Hamas and the other lunatics

Frankfooter said:

Its the same logic.
If Jews who lived in Palestine have the rights to the land now then your home is owned by natives here.
If you don't move out now and give them to it then your views are bullshit.

Instead Israel is trying to take half of Lebanon and you're going to blame Lebanese.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2034752445927113128

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I'm not in favour of this fucking war - I have Israel fatigue.

crocket said:

Use your logic and give your home and land back to native indians. Kick you out like the jews are doing to the Palestinians.

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did you stop taking you meds?

bggolfingmaniac said:

I'm not in favour of this fucking war - I have Israel fatigue.

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You and the rest of the planet.

I've had 2.5 years of watching people suffer the most sick horrors imaginable while people here say they should get more.

JohnLarue said:

you ignore what you do not want to hear

i provided you with facts:
you ignore the facts

the extermination / genocide of Israel is the only acceptable solution for you, Hamas and the other lunatics

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Israel committing genocide and land stealing in Gaza, West Bank, and now Lebanon. Now they are bombing Iran based on nuclear lies. How do you not see these facts? Israel is the real terrorist in the region. Are you a mossad agent?

JohnLarue said:

did you stop taking you meds?

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You need to learn how to read.

Frankfooter said:

The brits made a deal with Palestinians before WWII that if they fought with the UK they would get their state back.
Instead they came up with a plan to give the 7% of the population that was Jewish 50% of the country.
Why shouldn't they have been upstet?

Zionists are almost all European without longterm ties to the land and even if they did its the people living on the land that should have the rights, not someone who maybe had relatives who lived there 1000 years ago.

Israel should have settled for the two state solution in 1948, 1967 or any time.
Instead its been 78 years of slow land theft.

Somehow you think Palestinians did this.

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Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2020 "Deal of the Century": Rejected by the Palestinian Authority.

Here is a list of peace offers the Palestinians offered to Israel -None. and they never will

The only acceptable solution for the Palestinians is the extermination of Israel and the genocide of its people

you will jump up and down screaming about Israel doing this and that but you wont be able to deny the cold hard truth

Israel has been given only two options by Hamas /Palestine
1. be eliminated
2. eliminate those that seek to eliminate you


you lack the stones to answer this question
what would you do if given only those two options ?

crocket said:

Israel committing genocide and land stealing in Gaza, West Bank, and now Lebanon. Now they are bombing Iran based on nuclear lies. How do you not see these facts? Israel is the real terrorist in the region. Are you a mossad agent?

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you post as if your translation software is breaking down
Are you having power reliability issues in Tehran?

Israel has been given only two options by Hamas /Palestine
1. be eliminated
2. eliminate those that seek to eliminate you

you lack the stones to answer this question
what would you do if given only those two options ?

JohnLarue said:

Here is a list of peace offers which would grant the Palestinians a country of their own, they refused all of them

1919: Arabs of Palestine refused nominate representatives to the Paris Peace Conference.
1920: San Remo conference decisions, rejected.
1922: League of Nations decisions, rejected.
1937: Peel Commission partition proposal, rejected.
1938: Woodhead partition proposal, rejected
1947: UN General Assembly partition proposal (UNGAR 181), rejected.
1949: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNGAR 194), rejected.
1967: Israel’s outstretched hand for peace (UNSCR 242), rejected.
1978: Begin/Sa’adat peace proposal, rejected (except for Egypt).
1994: Rabin/Hussein peace agreement, rejected by the rest of the Arab League (except for Egypt).
1995: Rabin’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2000: Barak/Clinton peace offer, rejected.
2001: Barak’s offer at Taba, rejected.
2005: Sharon’s peace gesture, withdrawal from Gaza, rejected.
2008: Olmert/Bush peace offer, rejected.
2009 to 2021: Netanyahu’s repeated invitations to peace talks, rejected.
2014: Kerry’s Contour-for-Peace, rejected.
2020 "Deal of the Century": Rejected by the Palestinian Authority.

Here is a list of peace offers the Palestinians offered to Israel -None. and they never will

The only acceptable solution for the Palestinians is the extermination of Israel and the genocide of its people

you will jump up and down screaming about Israel doing this and that but you wont be able to deny to cold hard truth

Israel has been given only two options by Hamas /Palestine
1. be eliminated
2. eliminate those that seek to eliminate you


you lack the stones to answer this question
what would you do if given only those two options ?

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[/QUOTE]
Offers were all shit, so they rejected them all.

JohnLarue said:

Israel has been given only two options by Hamas /Palestine
1. be eliminated
2. eliminate those that seek to eliminate you


you lack the stones to answer this question
what would you do if given only those two options ?

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Whole world can see that Hamas wasn't strong. They were not a real army, but Israel is backed by a superpower and it's taken them years to reduce Hamas. Majority of the people murdered in Gaza by Israel were women and children. Israel committed war crimes, Satanyahoo is wanted for war crimes.

crocket said:

Whole world can see that Hamas wasn't strong. They were not a real army, but Israel is backed by a superpower and it's taken them years to reduce Hamas. Majority of the people murdered in Gaza by Israel were women and children. Israel committed war crimes, Satanyahoo is wanted for war crimes.

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yeah ok
English is obviously not your native language and you obviously are not open to learning anything and you have obviously eaten the Johnny Jihadi Jello of irrational religious hatred
Onto ignore with you

crocket said:

Offers were all shit, so they rejected them all.

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all offers spanning over a century were rejected by Palestine
Palestine never made a offer of peace to Israel never, not once, and never will offer peace to Israel

Palestine / Hamas does not want peace
Palestine / Hamas only wants the genocide of Israel

Israel has been given only two options by Hamas /Palestine
1. be eliminated
2. eliminate those that seek to eliminate you


you lack the stones to answer this question
what would you do if given only those two options ?

JohnLarue said:

yeah ok
English is obviously not your native language and you obviously are not open to learning anything and you have obviously eaten the Johnny Jihadi Jello of irrational religious hatred
Onto ignore with you

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What, you can't take losing an argument? You and Trump are a like.

JohnLarue said:

all offers spanning over a century were rejected by Palestine
Palestine never made a offer of peace with Israel never, not once

Palestine / Hamas does not want peace
Palestine / Hamas only wants the genocide of Israel

Israel has been given only two options by Hamas /Palestine
1. be eliminated
2. eliminate those that seek to eliminate you


you lack the stones to answer this question
what would you do if given only those two options ?

Click to expand...

Hamas doesn't even have 1 plane, tank, warship, or any other heavy equipment. Hamas is a group of freedom fighters that oppose Israeli oppression. You are smoking too much Israeli propaganda.

Offers were all shit, so they rejected them all.
[/QUOTE]

Right, and how did that work out for them?

Sometimes, you negotiate from a position of strength, and sometimes from a position of weakness. Dating back to 1967 or even further, say to Israel's war of Independence, when have Palestinians been in a position of strength? Sometimes, an OK or meh deal is better than the alternative, when it gives them a legit state with borders and everything. They chose intafadahs every damn time, when Arab neighbors weren't invading and trying to eradicate the Jewish state.

Not to piggyback off JohnLarue, but he's right. Ultimately, all of these failed overtures harden people, and this is the result. Ask yourself this, do the Palestinian people look like they're close to achieving their nationhood? Or maybe decades of shitty leadership and bad decisions have betrayed their own people, who deserve MUCH MUCH better than their current plight.

Here is the AI version of what Arafat was offered.

The Institute for Middle East Understanding (IMEU) +2
Key Aspects of the 2000 Camp David Offer:

• Territory: Israel offered withdrawal from 91% to 92% of the West Bank, plus compensation from Israeli territory (totaling upwards of 96% in some proposals).
• Jerusalem: Palestinians were offered sovereignty over Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem and the Muslim and Christian quarters of the Old City, but not the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif.
• Refugees: No general "right of return" to Israel proper was allowed; refugees would return to the new Palestinian state.
• Security: Israel proposed retaining security control over significant portions of the West Bank and keeping some areas under Israeli control.
  Wikipedia +6

Why Arafat Rejected the Offer:

• Jerusalem and Holy Sites: Arafat insisted on full Palestinian sovereignty over East Jerusalem and the Temple Mount (Haram al-Sharif), which was a non-starter
• Negotiating Process: Arafat believed the summit was too rushed and that the offer was a "trap" rather than a good-faith negotiation, preferring to continue negotiations later.
  Reddit +4
• (source: The Institute for Middle East Understanding (IMEU)

I've gone back and forth with a few hardline anti-Zionists who all say the same thing. Why did Arafat need to negotiate? My answer will always be the same because it broke my heart back then....because living side by side with Jews in peace was a bridge too far for PLO leadership - it forced them to think differently about the Jews, and they weren't willing to cross that bridge.

By 2001, Sharon was in power and the next wave of terror had begun. 25 fkn years later, and it feels like no one has learned a damn thing from that vicious cycle.

I'm a dying breed, Liberal Zionists are in short supply at the moment, and I'm a lot more reasonable than the Israeli right and far right. TO THIS DAY, I want the Palestinians to have their own country, despite everything that's happened, because I'm convinced it's the only way this will ever succeed. A continual state of war/conflict is impossible to live in, and I hate what's happened in Gaza post Oct 7 as well. There are measured responses and then there are bloodthirsty ones, and sadly, an asshole that hates the Palestinians runs the show so we all know what route they went.

I'm in my early 50s and it hurts to say it but the 2 state solution that seemed so damn feasible no longer feels possible. The far right in Israel has made a mockery of Palestinian rights in the West Bank, and I'm not cool with kicking them off their homes/properties. It reinforces everything Israel has done wrong post 1967 by purposely fudging supposed borders and fence lines, and I'm vehemently opposed to this in its entirety.

See? I can harshly criticize 'my side.' Try it too.

bggolfingmaniac said:

I'm not in favour of this fucking war - I have Israel fatigue.

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Join the club.

Frankfooter said:

Its the same logic.
If Jews who lived in Palestine have the rights to the land now then your home is owned by natives here.
If you don't move out now and give them to it then your views are bullshit.

Instead Israel is trying to take half of Lebanon and you're going to blame Lebanese.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2034752445927113128

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read my response just above as I address that....IMO it's the single biggest impediment to lasting peace there. I argued in my Masters thesis (finished a year after Rabin was assassinated) to give up all land won militarily - to retreat back to 1967 borders (real ones) with the UN placed in Golan, South Lebanon, Gaza and Jerusalem indefinitely until the Hatfields and McCoys could actually learn to co-exist. I really meant it when I said I was against any occupation, and this was 31 years ago. (p.s. I got my degree, even though my prof hated Israel as much as you or Klatuu)

We're down to one issue - you call it genocide. I call it declaring war after war was declared on it. Do I think Israel was too bloodthirsty? Yes. Is that somehow my fault? Sorry, but that's where I draw my red line(s).

crocket said:

Are you a mossad agent?

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No, he isn't smart enough to be one. lmfao.

bggolfingmaniac said:

We're down to one issue - you call it genocide. I call it declaring war after war was declared on it. Do I think Israel was too bloodthirsty? Yes. Is that somehow my fault? Sorry, but that's where I draw my red line(s).

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It's not your fault. Or any particular Jewish person's fault. Or any particular Israeli citizen's fault. Even if any of these individuals support Israel's actions in Gaza.
We don't hold people accountable for thoughts.
However, it IS objectively genocide.
And the state of Israel has committed it.
The leaders of Israel - Netanyahu, Gallant, Smotrich and many others, along with the military leadership, and any soldier found to be violating the laws of war, should be brought to justice for this crime.