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War with Iran

SchlongConery

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xmontrealer

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May 23, 2005
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From my New Yorker magazine feed today:

The Administration can’t get its story straight on the Iran war, while an oil crisis threatens to upend the global economy.​

Ian Crouch
Newsletter editor
As the war in Iran approaches the two-week mark, the Trump Administration is still struggling to provide clear answers on two questions: What are the aims of this “little excursion,” as the President called the American and Israeli attacks this week? And how will the U.S. mitigate the war’s effects on oil prices, and thus economic activity, around the world?

An American President might be expected to offer some guidance. And yet, as our political columnist Susan B. Glasser points out, Donald Trump continues to contradict himself. This week, he has declared victory—“We won,” he said—but also insisted that “we’re not finished yet.” It’s fallen on others to squint at the situation, looking for some semblance of a plan. Glasser offers a dire comparison, writing that “Trump now sounds little different than Vladimir Putin in how he justifies the conflict—and in how much power he has claimed for himself to dictate America’s participation in it.”

The economic consequences of the war, meanwhile, have only raised the political stakes at home. Right now, much of the oil and gas that normally comes out of the Persian Gulf and into international markets is trapped on tankers, unable to pass freely through the Strait of Hormuz. During a briefing this morning, Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of War, addressed the Iranian threats to the strait, insisting that “we have been dealing with it, and don’t need to worry about it.”

But the world, of course, is very worried about it, and our economics columnist John Cassidy argues that the U.S. has proved indefensibly ill-equipped for the oil shock its attacks have unleashed. Trump has no excuse; Tehran engaged in similar tactics during a showdown in the President’s first term, threatening to block the strait and disrupt oil infrastructure. “Whether out of arrogance, capriciousness, or collective amnesia,” Cassidy writes, “this recent history was ignored.”

Cassidy provides essential analysis about what the Administration should have known, how it could have better prepared for this potential economic crisis, and what might happen next. For now, Cassidy notes, “the search for the fall guy is on,” as the President and his allies try to spin higher gas prices as a possible net benefit for the American economy. But, Cassidy adds, “the truth is we are all Trump’s fall guys.”

For more: the longtime New Yorker contributor Bernard Avishai writes about sheltering in place in Jerusalem, and about how long a war alliance might really last between Trump and the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.​
 
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mellowjello

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Jan 11, 2017
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He explains it here:
His comment that Israel wants the U.S. to lose this war so they can become the hemogenic power in the region is utterly absurd in my opinion.
They have no legs to carry that weight on their own. They have no economies of scale of industry, finance, military, global networks, population....
Why would they want to kill the goose that lays the eggs for them.
It's not like two distinct societies like China and Russia, U.S. and Israel are integrated in every single way possible including intelligence gathering and sharing.
The interests of each country are completely tied to what they can do for each other. We're talking about the political and economic elites in this
instance, everybody else is worth spit.
I get the heartland theory, but even that at the very least would necessitate a relationship with the U.S. for naval power, and overall military power in general.
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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His comment that Israel wants the U.S. to lose this war so they can become the hemogenic power in the region is utterly absurd in my opinion.
They have no legs to carry that weight on their own. They have no economies of scale of industry, finance, military, global networks, population....
Why would they want to kill the goose that lays the eggs for them.
It's not like two distinct societies like China and Russia, U.S. and Israel are integrated in every single way possible including intelligence gathering and sharing.
The interests of each country are completely tied to what they can do for each other. We're talking about the political and economic elites in this
instance, everybody else is worth spit.
I get the heartland theory, but even that at the very least would necessitate a relationship with the U.S. for naval power, and overall military power in general.
I think he uses very general language, but my interpretation of statements like "destroy CENTCOM", etc, is per my other post.
I don't think it means total capitulation of the US.
Rather Israel leverages the situation to keep the US bogged down, and benefits from it by manipulating their foreign policy and using their resources, to accomplish their own regional geopolitical objectives.
In that way the US "loses" and Israel "wins".
 
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mellowjello

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Jan 11, 2017
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I think he uses very general language, but my interpretation of statements like "destroy CENTCOM", etc, is per my other post.
I don't think it means total capitulation of the US.
Rather Israel leverages the situation to keep the US bogged down, and benefits from it by manipulating their politics and using their resources, to accomplish their own regional geopolitical objectives.
In that way the US "loses" and Israel "wins".
I'm still in the camp that says U.S. and Israel are partners.
Israel is not some Holy Land, it was created as a geopolitical, military out post of the West, and that's exactly what it is today.
If Americans are being manipulated and betrayed it's not Israel doing it, it's American elites who are doing it to their own because their own interests
lie deeper with Israel's success than anything to do with their own population.
The same way Netanyahu and his cronies manipulate and subjugate their own population for the alliance.
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that's the way I've connected the dots.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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I'm still in the camp that says U.S. and Israel are partners.
Israel is not some Holy Land, it was created as a geopolitical, military out post of the West, and that's exactly what it is today.
If Americans are being manipulated and betrayed it's not Israel doing it, it's American elites who are doing it to their own because their own interests
lie deeper with Israel's success than anything to do with their own population.
The same way Netanyahu and his cronies manipulate and subjugate their own population for the alliance.
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying that's the way I've connected the dots.
It's both. Make no mistake while its a beach head there are significant forces that consider this a holy war. And that Israel is the Chosen Land.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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How much was actually there?
Estimates range between 5,000 and 10,000 Iranian military personnel, plus all kinds of anti-aircraft missile launchers and other equipment. Kharg Island processes 90% of Iran's oil.

My guess is the 2,500 US Marines that Trump called up will now occupy the island
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Estimates range between 5,000 and 10,000 Iranian military personnel, plus all kinds of anti-aircraft missile launchers and other equipment. Kharg Island processes 90% of Iran's oil.

My guess is the 2,500 US Marines that Trump called up will now occupy the island
If they do all Gulf infrastructure is a target.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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I think the US will put boots on the ground. Maybe they will try and take Kharg Island not sure.
A 2500 man Navy & Marine force is being readied for exactly that purpose if that option is to be taken.

It will either be:

a) An attempted economic strangulation of Iran if it were to succeed to the point of Iran saying, "Ok, ok, we give up, uncle."

or more likely:

b) Trump's very own goal, American,"Dien Bien Phu" legacy.

Iran will not quit. Their existence is threatened, America's isn't.

The best Israel can achieve is to continue buying time with "mowing the grass" every so often as they have done and done and done for decades.
 
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