War with Iran

squeezer

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You left out #4.

Trump will completely annihilate the entire Iranian armed forces and missile capabilities, claim victory, and move on

That scenario is possible, but it still doesn’t solve the bigger problem: protecting the Strait from small, asymmetric attacks. Even if conventional military targets are destroyed, it’s extremely difficult to stop individuals or small groups who are willing to carry out suicide-style attacks using small boats, drones, or portable rocket launchers against ships passing through.

It only takes one successful strike to create a major disruption. If a single tanker or cargo vessel were sunk in the Strait, shipping traffic could halt almost immediately because insurers would refuse coverage for vessels transiting the area. In fact, maritime insurers often classify conflict zones as high-risk areas and can suspend coverage or dramatically raise premiums when the threat level increases. Without insurance, most commercial shipping companies simply will not transit those waters.

Trump declaring victory and leaving doesn't mean Iran will stop threatening vessels.
 

squeezer

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USA no. Israel? I'm giving a slight chance with the present leadership. And the only way there will be peace is if the present leadership is gone. Think they will go quietly?

We are in a bad place, with a lot of people in charge who are desperate.
I believe Israel's election is in October. Hopefully, BIBI is tossed.
 
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Butler1000

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I believe Israel's election is in October. Hopefully, BIBI is tossed.
This is imo, going to be decided well before then. I truly hope you are right. And he may get tossed sooner in a non confidence vote in the Knesset. That would be the best option to turn down the heat.

But there appears to be a crapload of fanatics in play here.
 

mellowjello

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I said things will continue to get worse......how am I wrong? This isn't doomsday. It's the USA bring outed as an inept military too reliant on tech, bad suppliers, and previous reputation. It was fine when it was third world tinpots.

Now they are facing an enemy that will not back down, that has resources, has know how, independent weapons manufacturing, and a very real long term defense plan.

Vs the idiots in the White House, and the Fanatics in Tel Aviv. With a VERY vulnerable Gulf States, producing 20% of oil, 35% of fertilizer for the world on the line.

There are only three stark options now imo, because I don't think Iran is going to stop if you ask nicely.

1 USA leaves.
2 USA initiates a draft and goes full in.
3 Isreal uses a nuke.

That's it. Thats what's left.
What is deemed success or failure depends on what the objective is.
If the real objective is to facilitate the expansion of Israel into Greater Israel under the cover of conflict with Iran,
then the war is going according to plan regardless of the lies and speculation. An extended war provides an extended cover.
Motives and success or failure will not become apparent until well after the war, after the dust settles.
 

Butler1000

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I think the US will put boots on the ground. Maybe they will try and take Kharg Island not sure.
Nukes will backfire at this point.
Kharg island means a total Wipeout of oil production in the Gulf. All the ports, refineries, pipes and fields will come under mass fire. And they can't stop it.

It also means hurting China, India. Not a good idea.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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I said options.

But think about this. If the USA tries to go ground troops, that will mean a draft. They don't have enough personel. Think that will happen?

Which means USA out. And that means out PERIOD. They are not going to let up on Israel any time soon. Where does that leave Israel?
If Trump send in ground troops it'll be the 2nd biggest mistake he makes.

But even if he does, I doubt there will be a draft
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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What is deemed success or failure depends on what the objective is.
If the real objective is to facilitate the expansion of Israel into Greater Israel under the cover of conflict with Iran,
then the war is going according to plan regardless of the lies and speculation.
Motives and success or failure will not become apparent until well after the war, after the dust settles.
Professor Jiang, theorizes that Israel wants the US to lose, even though they are allies because they want to be the most dominant power in the region.
So yeah I would agree, chaos is what Netanyahu wants because he leverages that to his benefit.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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That scenario is possible, but it still doesn’t solve the bigger problem: protecting the Strait from small, asymmetric attacks. Even if conventional military targets are destroyed, it’s extremely difficult to stop individuals or small groups who are willing to carry out suicide-style attacks using small boats, drones, or portable rocket launchers against ships passing through.

It only takes one successful strike to create a major disruption. If a single tanker or cargo vessel were sunk in the Strait, shipping traffic could halt almost immediately because insurers would refuse coverage for vessels transiting the area. In fact, maritime insurers often classify conflict zones as high-risk areas and can suspend coverage or dramatically raise premiums when the threat level increases. Without insurance, most commercial shipping companies simply will not transit those waters.

Trump declaring victory and leaving doesn't mean Iran will stop threatening vessels
Gulf countries can use the Red Sea and UAE pipelines to bypass Hormuz, but it reduces oil shipments by about 50%
 

Butler1000

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You left out #4.

Trump will completely annihilate the entire Iranian armed forces and missile capabilities, claim victory, and move on
How? Don't you think they would have done it already? They are already looking for a way out.
 

squeezer

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If Trump send in ground troops it'll be the 2nd biggest mistake he makes.

But even if he does, I doubt there will be a draft
I don't believe his handlers and advisors will allow this to happen with the midterms around the corner. This would guarantee them not only losing the house but the Senate would go in a massive majority to the Dems.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Iranian missiles can hit the infrastructure anywhere.
They can, but the Red Sea is harder for them to hit the tankers



Yes, it is generally harder for Iran to directly strike oil tankers in the Red Sea than in the Strait of Hormuz. The Strait of Hormuz offers a significant geographic advantage for Iran, with, as noted by shipping broker SSY Global on Reuters, only two-nautical-mile-wide shipping lanes allowing for rapid, close-range attacks using missiles, drones, and small craft, as described in this article from The New York Times. In contrast, the Red Sea is a much broader, more exposed maritime area.
Strait of Hormuz (Higher Threat Environment for Tankers):
  • Geographic Chokepoint: The strait is narrow, forcing ships close to Iranian territory. This allows for easy deployment of asymmetric threats like swarms of fast-attack boats, drones, and mines, as discussed in this article from The New York Times and on Ynetnews.
  • Direct Access: Iran can launch attacks directly from its mainland or nearby islands, notes The Guardian.
  • High Insurance Risk: As reported on Winnipeg Free Press and by CNBC on Yahoo, insurance premiums are exceptionally high here, indicating high danger.
Red Sea (Lower Direct Threat from Iran):
  • Greater Distance: The Red Sea is significantly further from Iran, reducing its ability to use its own assets for surprise attacks compared to the Persian Gulf.
  • Reliance on Proxies: While the Iran-aligned Houthis in Yemen have attacked shipping in the Red Sea, these strikes are less immediate than the direct threats posed by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) in the Hormuz strait, as discussed on Ynetnews and Yahoo.
  • More Space: The wider, more open water allows more room for naval defense and surveillance, notes Foreign Affairs.
While Iran can use proxies in the Red Sea, the logistical challenges and distance make it a less effective venue for shutting down traffic compared to its ability to instantly threaten the narrow lanes of the Strait of Hormuz, says Chatham House and The New York Times.
 

mellowjello

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Professor Jiang, theorizes that Israel wants the US to lose, even though they are allies because they want to be the most dominant power in the region.
So yeah I would agree, chaos is what Netanyahu wants because he leverages that to his benefit.
I don't know what winning or losing means at this point unless we know what the real motive for this war is and what the outcome is.
Why would Israel want the U.S. to "lose"?
If Israel becomes the dominant power it will be because of the U.S. , Israel has been able to survive the last 80 years only because of the U.S.
Israel couldn't even defeat Hamas without endless money and weapons from the U.S.
 

mandrill

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I said options.

But think about this. If the USA tries to go ground troops, that will mean a draft. They don't have enough personel. Think that will happen?

Which means USA out. And that means out PERIOD. They are not going to let up on Israel any time soon. Where does that leave Israel?
No ground invasion. Iran is a country of 100 million people - most of whom probably still support the regime, particularly against a foreign invader. Iran has massive mountain ranges on its Western borders and also huge deserts.

Plus, you would have to land troops and conduct a beachhead assault to even get onto Iranian soil in the southwest and THEN get across a massive mountain range.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Israel couldn't even defeat Hamas without endless money and weapons from the U.S
Hamas was never completely defeated, but their military capabilities have been reduced to almost zero and Gaza was turned into rubble.
Thats as close to a military victory as you can come
 

squeezer

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