Iranian negotiators bragged to the US ones that they had enough material for 11 Nuclear bombs.

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
12,261
10,284
113
The operative phrase there is "in response to". What did the US do in response to the attack on Pearl Harbor?
Oh Southpaw... :rolleyes:

Did Israel use nukes in response to the Hamas surprise attack on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023? That's the closest comparison I can think of.

Pearl Harbour was surprise attacked by Japan on December 7, 1941. The atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima by the USA on August 6, 1945.

I'm no mathematician or historian, but that hardly seems like a direct response given the 3+ years of fighting between the initial attack and the ultimate decisive military action.

Not exactly "in response to Pearl Harbour", but rather a way to end a war that looked like it could go on indefinitely, at the cost of many thousands more American soldier's lives.

Why did the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki happen?




The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica
A number of factors contributed to the United States’ decision to drop atomic bombs on Japan. One reason was Japan’s unwillingness to surrender unconditionally. Japan wanted to keep their emperor and conduct their own war trials and did not want to be occupied by U.S. forces. However, the United States wanted unconditional surrender, which thus meant the continuation of the war. Japan refused to surrender after multiple firebombing campaigns such as the Bombing of Tokyo on March 9–10, 1945. The Bombing of Tokyo alone claimed tens of thousands of lives and is often cited as one of the most destructive acts of war in history. Although the precise death toll is unknown, conservative estimates suggest that the firestorm caused by incendiary bombs killed at least 80,000 people, likely more than 100,000, in a single night; some one million people were left homeless. It looked increasingly likely that the United States would have to commit itself to a land invasion, which could have claimed many American lives. Instead, the atomic bomb served as a tool to bring the war in the Pacific to a close sooner.

Another reason why the United States dropped the atomic bombs—and, specifically, the second one on Nagasaki—has to do with the Soviet Union. On August 8, 1945, two days after the Hiroshima bombing, as agreed to by Joseph Stalin during the Tehrān and Yalta conferences in 1943 and 1945, respectively, the Soviet Union declared war on Japan. It is possible that U.S. President Harry Truman ordered the atomic bomb to be dropped on Nagasaki not only to further force Japan to surrender but also to keep the Soviets out of Japan by displaying American military power. Distrust and a sense of rivalry had been built up between the two superpowers that ultimately culminated in the Cold War.
 

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
12,261
10,284
113
No, they have used 7 Hiroshima's worth of conventional munitions and committed a genocide in the process.
Hamas shoulda given back the hostages right away, both dead and alive...

That would have greatly lessened the Israeli peoples', and Jews in the diaspora's, support for the ongoing war, killing, and destruction.

But we've had that conversation before...

That horse is really dead, but you wanna keep beating it. :(
 

southpaw

Well-known member
May 21, 2002
2,006
1,875
113
That horse is really dead, but you wanna keep beating it. :(
The only reason Israel doesn't nuke Gaza, is because its tiny and on their border. They would not escape the fallout. Now, if things go bad with Iran, I wouldn't put it past them. Nothing this rogue state does surprises me anymore.
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2023
10,140
11,105
113
Hamas shoulda given back the hostages right away, both dead and alive...
Hamas taking hostages does not justify genocide.
That Israel dropped 7 Hiroshimas worth of munitions in the location where the hostages were located in order to rescue them also doesn't make sense.
Therefore, the conclusion, that the families of the hostages themselves had arrived at that Netanyahu was the single biggest hurdle to the return of the hostages is true.
It is also true that the destruction of Gaza was done in order to make it unliveable for the Palestinians.
Sadly, Israel has no moral high ground even after suffering October 7.
You are seeing bipartisan pushback on Israel today despite all the accusations of antisemitism and desperate attempts at taking control over the narrative by buying up mainstream and social media.
Netanyahu even has an arrest warrant out from the ICC.
That should tell you a lot.
Or not. In which case you can stick to lamenting that this is all due to anti-semitism in which case you won't find many that will empathize with you.
 

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
12,261
10,284
113
The only reason Israel doesn't nuke Gaza, is because its tiny and on their border. They would not escape the fallout. Now, if things go bad with Iran, I wouldn't put it past them. Nothing this rogue state does surprises me anymore.
Any country that actually uses nuclear weapons would become an instant world pariah.

That has been reason enough to prevent their use, no matter what, by any nation that possesses those weapons, post WWII.

Furthermore, I believe that even Netanyahu understands that the use of nukes would dry up all U.S. funding, and the financial support to Israel of 95% of the Jews in the diaspora.

Most unfortunately, I don't think that Iran, under its radical Islamic leadership, cares about world opinion at all... :(
 
Last edited:

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
12,261
10,284
113
Hamas taking hostages does not justify genocide.
That Israel dropped 7 Hiroshimas worth of munitions in the location where the hostages were located in order to rescue them also doesn't make sense.
Therefore, the conclusion, that the families of the hostages themselves had arrived at that Netanyahu was the single biggest hurdle to the return of the hostages is true.
It is also true that the destruction of Gaza was done in order to make it unliveable for the Palestinians.
Sadly, Israel has no moral high ground even after suffering October 7.
You are seeing bipartisan pushback on Israel today despite all the accusations of antisemitism and desperate attempts at taking control over the narrative by buying up mainstream and social media.
Netanyahu even has an arrest warrant out from the ICC.
That should tell you a lot.
Or not. In which case you can stick to lamenting that this is all due to anti-semitism in which case you won't find many that will empathize with you.
Whatever. Hama reneged, at least partially, on deal after deal to return the hostages.

They are, and will continue to be, the architects of their own destruction.

And as far as antisemitism is concerned, we Jews know it has always existed "on the down low" in general society , and it has taken Israel's response to Oct. 7 to "give societal permission" for non-Jews to express it openly.

La vie...
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Oracle

Shaquille Oatmeal

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2023
10,140
11,105
113
They are, and will continue to be, the architects of their own......
....it has taken Israel's response to Oct. 7 to "give societal permission" for non-Jews to express it openly.
Just like you say Hamas architected their own destruction, Israel architected the push back and hate they are receiving.
People cannot unsee what they have seen and the harder you gaslight someone as being antisemitic when they call that out, the harder that pushback will get.
And it also matters what you call antisemitism. There is a tendency to call criticism of Israel antisemitism, which it isn't.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
109,552
33,055
113
Whatever. Hama reneged, at least partially, on deal after deal to return the hostages.

They are, and will continue to be, the architects of their own destruction.

And as far as antisemitism is concerned, we Jews know it has always existed "on the down low" in general society , and it has taken Israel's response to Oct. 7 to "give societal permission" for non-Jews to express it openly.

La vie...
Bullshit.
Netanyahu repeatedly refused to agree to terms to return the hostages, Hamas repeatedly offered.
Most of the killing on Oct 7 was done by Israel we now know as well. Only Israel had the heavy artillery that killed so many.

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
109,552
33,055
113
Hamas shoulda given back the hostages right away, both dead and alive...

That would have greatly lessened the Israeli peoples', and Jews in the diaspora's, support for the ongoing war, killing, and destruction.

But we've had that conversation before...

That horse is really dead, but you wanna keep beating it. :(
 

xmontrealer

(he/him/it)
May 23, 2005
12,261
10,284
113
@Shaquille Oatmeal, I don't know your ethnicity.

If you're a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, you will know very little about racism directed at you.

Being a Catholic used to be an issue many years ago, but I doubt it is as much today. (Think about the election of JFK and the worries that he might have to obey the Pope.)

If you are a Jew, (which I highly doubt), you will know there may often be a bit of antisemitism towards you just in terms of being a minority, due to some identifiable physical features or your name, that from time to time may give you the feeling of underlying antisemitism, or a "sense of being the other" in your interactions with people of other ethnicities. And if you see the antisemitic comments on TikTok (which have now been reduced to racist images since racist words are now prohibited on that platform) whenever the most innocent Jewish opinions or practices are posted, you may better understand what I am saying. It is obvious on terb.

If you are brown, which covers many minorities, that racism may be even much more evident, and a lot more publicly acceptable according to many white people. That is also obvious on terb, but usually only in regards to being denied service by sex providers, or being accused by providers of being cheap, abusive, and unhygienic.

If you are black it may be even worse. That is also obvious on terb, but usually only in regards to being denied service by sex providers for the stated reasons of "trying to be their pimp, being too rough, or your dick being too big". Not to mention being hassled by the police for "driving while black", etc.

If you are an indigenous person living in Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, or Calgary you may develop a sense of hopelessness, and assume, correctly, that you will almost never be accepted as an equal to any whites, and the chances of finding decent employment are very slim.

If you are a Muslim in Europe and England, you will be presumed to be a radical who is trying to establish Sharia law in formerly white regions, with the goal of establishing as large a caliphate as possible, and converting all the infidels to Islam, at penalty of taxation or death for non-compliance.

That is, imho, human nature, and is inescapable.

But that doesn't make it right! (not crazy about the Sharia law and caliphate things though...)
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
109,552
33,055
113
@Shaquille Oatmeal, I don't know your ethnicity.

If you're a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, you will know very little about racism directed at you.

Being a Catholic used to be an issue many years ago, but I doubt it is as much today. (Think about the election of JFK and the worries that he might have to obey the Pope.)

If you are a Jew, (which I highly doubt), you will know there may often be a bit of antisemitism towards you just in terms of being a minority, due to some identifiable physical features or your name, that from time to time may give you the feeling of underlying antisemitism, or a "sense of being the other" in your interactions with people of other ethnicities. And if you see the antisemitic comments on TikTok (which have now been reduced to racist images since racist words are now prohibited on that platform) whenever the most innocent Jewish opinions or practices are posted, you may better understand what I am saying. It is obvious on terb.

If you are brown, which covers many minorities, that racism may be even much more evident, and a lot more publicly acceptable according to many white people. That is also obvious on terb, but usually only in regards to being denied service by sex providers, or being accused by providers of being cheap, abusive, and unhygienic.

If you are black it may be even worse. That is also obvious on terb, but usually only in regards to being denied service by sex providers for the stated reasons of "trying to be their pimp, being too rough, or your dick being too big". Not to mention being hassled by the police for "driving while black", etc.

If you are an indigenous person living in Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, or Calgary you may develop a sense of hopelessness, and assume, correctly, that you will almost never be accepted as an equal to any whites, and the chances of finding decent employment are very slim.

If you are a Muslim in Europe and England, you will be presumed to be a radical who is trying to establish Sharia law in formerly white regions, with the goal of establishing as large a caliphate as possible, and converting all the infidels to Islam, at penalty of taxation or death for non-compliance.

That is, imho, human nature, and is inescapable.

But that doesn't make it right! (not crazy about the Sharia law and caliphate things though...)
Whatever, none of that justifies racial supremacy, settler colonialism, apartheid, genocide and attacking other countries to take their land.
Zionists, not 'the Jews', are the problem.
You clearly are also a zionist and have no apparent problem backing genocide.

 

Shaquille Oatmeal

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2023
10,140
11,105
113
@Shaquille Oatmeal, I don't know your ethnicity.

If you're a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, you will know very little about racism directed at you.

Being a Catholic used to be an issue many years ago, but I doubt it is as much today. (Think about the election of JFK and the worries that he might have to obey the Pope.)

If you are a Jew, (which I highly doubt), you will know there may often be a bit of antisemitism towards you just in terms of being a minority, due to some identifiable physical features or your name, that from time to time may give you the feeling of underlying antisemitism, or a "sense of being the other" in your interactions with people of other ethnicities. And if you see the antisemitic comments on TikTok (which have now been reduced to racist images since racist words are now prohibited on that platform) whenever the most innocent Jewish opinions or practices are posted, you may better understand what I am saying. It is obvious on terb.

If you are brown, which covers many minorities, that racism may be even much more evident, and a lot more publicly acceptable according to many white people. That is also obvious on terb, but usually only in regards to being denied service by sex providers, or being accused by providers of being cheap, abusive, and unhygienic.

If you are black it may be even worse. That is also obvious on terb, but usually only in regards to being denied service by sex providers for the stated reasons of "trying to be their pimp, being too rough, or your dick being too big". Not to mention being hassled by the police for "driving while black", etc.

If you are an indigenous person living in Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, or Calgary you may develop a sense of hopelessness, and assume, correctly, that you will almost never be accepted as an equal to any whites, and the chances of finding decent employment are very slim.

If you are a Muslim in Europe and England, you will be presumed to be a radical who is trying to establish Sharia law in formerly white regions, with the goal of establishing as large a caliphate as possible, and converting all the infidels to Islam, at penalty of taxation or death for non-compliance.

That is, imho, human nature, and is inescapable.

But that doesn't make it right! (not crazy about the Sharia law and caliphate things though...)
I understand entrenched racism whoever the target group may be.
I am saying that while it is true that some may be resorting to blaming all Jews for the actions of Israel, and using that to caricature or slander or attack them, which would be antisemitic, it is also true that all criticism of Israel is now branded antisemitic.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts