Electrical work - ESA

When you go through esa it's a actual permit versus an electrician doing the work unpermitted. With an esa permit they send in an inspector for the rough in and also a final inspection.

Of note homeowners can get a permit and do the work by themselves.

Jubee said:

So if you don't go the ESA route, the work is not "certified" (or legal, or whatever? lol) even though it's a certified electrician?

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Yes... if something happens with the installation and insurance needs to be involved one of the first questions is was ESA permit taken out. Bit of a money grab but for few hundred worth it to be on the safe side.

Jubee said:

So if you don't go the ESA route, the work is not "certified" (or legal, or whatever? lol) even though it's a certified electrician?

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Electrician should have their own insurance for liability which means you could sue them for their incompetence. Lots of electricians do work without the permit because it's another step waiting for someone to inspect. Time is money.

You can also call the esa and your insurance company to get the correct info.

In my substantial experience in both hiring and helping others who have been fucked over, hiring a contractor who wants to avoid building permits (when required), wants cash to avoid HST (and paying income tax) , doesn't have an WSIB clearance letter/number or providing a copy of his liability insurance is a huge red flag. HUGE. I have NO fucking sympathy for anyone who pays cash, off the books for any substantial work. Fuck, I've even seen handymen who can't wire an outlet or switch properly. They don't even understand alternating current, and think in terms of Positive and Negative!

Anyone doing electrical work without a permit, ESPECIALLY an ESA licensed Electrical Contractor who offers to do work without getting an ESA permits is about as shady contractor as it gets. If he is willing to risk his entire business and his personal certification, he won't give a shit about cutting corners or not finishing the job.

Electrical wiring is the very last thing you want to cut any corners or take any chance with. It is deadly on so many levels.

The hilarious YT Short below is about DIY but the same principles apply... electrical codes are written in blood.

Jubee said:

So if you don't go the ESA route, the work is not "certified" (or legal, or whatever? lol) even though it's a certified electrician?

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It's actually worse going through a licensed contractor and knowingly deciding not to get a permit taken out. He will undoubtedly want to be paid in cash, no receipt etc.

The ESA can fine your friend in addition to fining the contractor, individual electrician AND yanking their licenses. The ESA is a brutally unforgiving agency when it comes to deliberate transgressions.

Insurance WILL look to deny any fire claims if it involves electrical work that your friend can't provide permits for. And it is easy to prove. All wire and fixtures have date codes on them so it is easy to prove that the work was done after certain time frame. SO he can't claim it was pre-existing.

Get a ESA notification, 100%

Strange anecdote here.
I have worked for electricains off and on for about 6 years in my post high schiool youth, but never apprenticed.
I was doing it because there were lots of hours to be worked over the summer breaks before during and just after uni, and the wages were pretty good too.
By the third year the boss figured I had brains and had me planning the next weeks work load of me and 5 others.

So years from that, in the house I own it was 2003.
This house had a really early Taylor 24 circuit 125A circuit breaker panel, but with 16 breakers installed.
No added breakers could be bought.
They had gone out of business by like 1975.
Existing AC was on its own disconnect tapped off of main panel lugs prior to me buying, to power the install of the central AC.

To do some upgrades, like central vac and a proper dedicated feed for a built in dishwasher and microwave, and fridge and freezer on their own circuits...
I took some old heavy wall copper drain pipe that was surplus from plumbing renos I did in the house.
Sawed and filed to size, pounded to flatten and work harden it, and tapped holes in the right places.
And made DIY busbars fingers so as to be able to bolt on Square D breakers to the old panel.
I knew an electrical inspector would flip if they ever saw this mod, so that only lasted for about 4 years.

Then I planned, and excecuted a panel change out and service upgrade.
To pull the old panel and place a 60 breaker 200amp Seimens panel.
Did the work myself on a day I took a holiday from the office job

I booked the ESA inspection in advance, and coordinated to do the meter pull with the utility.
The utility came the day after to put a new seal on the lock ring.
It was already a 200A capable service to the meter and meter, thank god.

The inspector said I did good work.
That it looked better than a lot of full time trades would have done.

Then he dinged me for not having the copper gas pipe drops bonded to earth ie grounded, a new rule that year I had not yet heard of. It kind of made sense.
So I did that minor work and call for resinspection.
Maybe another $100, dont recall the actual amount.

When he came back, he said all was good..
Admitted that back at the office when they say a home owner was doing such a big job, that the boss said they had to cite me for some little thing.
But that he said to me he told his mates that I had my act together on the big stuff.

So down the road if there is some misfortune and an insurance claim...
And they start making noise it was electrical related
I have the ESA inspection sticker and permit in hand to ram back at them .

Often times if the electrician is known to the ESA inspector, as often happens in small towns, the inspector won't bother inspecting the work.

Years ago I rewired an entire house after getting the permit, the inspector found a few things I did wrong due to changed or misunderstood codes, and I couldn't correct them myself. I had to hire an electrician to do it.

I also had my insurance agent for my handyman business tell me to NEVER do handyman electrical work for anyone, even installing switches or plugs. It would be illegal and I would be personally responsible for any damage (fire?) resulting from my work. It was easy advise to follow.

angrymime666 said:

Electrician should have their own insurance for liability which means you could sue them for their incompetence. Lots of electricians do work without the permit because it's another step waiting for someone to inspect. Time is money.

You can also call the esa and your insurance company to get the correct info.

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They shouldn't...we have a snitch line for that those who do that don't have master's or do shady work. It's no different then building permit it's a safety thing u would be surprised how many try to cut corners...more and more now with license apparently from over seas