Toronto Passions

Must watch: Hamas supporters burn Canadian flags on October 7

basketcase

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If they chanted that. There is one video and we have no idea the context or if its the real audio.
One person, one time. No context.
Instead of admitting that even a small number of people chanting that is a problem, your join MTG in pretending the Jews control the media.
 

basketcase

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Really, one dodgy video of someone possibly saying 'death to Canada' and one picture of a flag and now you want to 'exterminate' Palestinians and Lebanese and you are ok with killing civilians to accomplish it? I've never seen a flag for Hamas nor seen one at the multiple, incredibly peaceful, protests for Palestinian rights I've attended. Not one. I've never heard 'death to Canada' or anybody cheering for anybody's death. There have been hundreds and hundreds of protests with the last one being 35,000. But for you all it takes is one person and now you're ready to join in on the genocide. Interesting.

Now you're saying 'exterminate' 'vermin' and you're going to do the zionist thing of blaming Hamas when Israel intentionally kills civilians?
Sorry, schlong, but there is no justification for killing civilians. Only terrorists intentionally kill civilians, no matter what excuse you use.

You picked a fine time to join in.
Israel is threatening nuclear war with Iran, is invading Lebanon, bombing Syria and Yemen and threatening to start WWIII.

These are now your people, the ones who represent your views the way you think the flag burner represents Palestine.





This is what 35,000 people marched in Toronto against on Saturday.
This is what you just said is ok.
As usual Frank needs to pretend a criticism of Hamas is racist and desperately create strawman lies that just make him look stupid. The only out you have is if you believe all Lebanese are Hezbollah and all Palestinians are Hamas.

What makes this even more stupid the the number of times you've said all of the original Zionists are terrorists and all Jews in the West Bank are terrorists and legitimate targets.
 

basketcase

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Coming from someone who denies all human rights reports, UN resolutions, international law and human rights this is comic gold.
...
Considering you've argued against all UN or human rights reports condemning Hamas...

Speaking of UNSC motions, look up 1701 and see how the UN feels about Hezbollah having a private army.
 

basketcase

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Endgame? Sure, because there are people like you who continue to support terrorism, endgame won't be on the horizon...Israel has severed a huge chunk of terrorism by eliminating almost all top level of Hezbollah...Sinwar is on the run...there might not be endgame but there will be endgame to someone soon.
It won't mean the end of Hezbollah but it does give Israel enough time to go in and destroy much of their rocket and military stockpiles in the south.

Severely crippling hezbollah's offensive abilities and stopping their daily rocket attacks is a win for Israel.
 

NotADcotor

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Mar 8, 2017
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Who gave them a free pass? Most agree 10/07 was a terror attack.
University protesters, the Terb hate crew, Queers for being killed by Palestine, Queers against having rights in Israel, if Frankfooter is to be believed the UN and some international courts, general protesters downtown. Asshats who put up for terrorism signs on their front lawn. Much of the Moslem world, various asshats in the EU parliament etc.
 

NotADcotor

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Unsure what you mean that the concept of civilian has been outdated?
Taxation, mass armies, importance of production, democracy. In the very old days two kings would go to war and their people would be free to travel to other countries unmolested as long as they stayed clear of the actual armies with the looting and the like.
 

basketcase

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What I think Frankfooter means is that by trying to take out Hamas and Hezbollah members, more civilians will die.
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That's absolutely true.

Hamas and Hezbollah pose an immediate threat to Israeli citizens so Israel has little choice but to try and prevent them from attacking. In the past Israel has been far more cautious than any other country in selecting targets including making symbolic strikes on empty Hamas encampments in response to Hamas rockets. After the death toll of 10/7, Israel realized that their previous tactics of 'mowing the grass' wasn't preventing Hamas from slaughtering civilians so they decided to hit hard and to care less if civilians were harmed in strikes on Hamas. Hamas has the choice about where to place their infrastructure and consciously chooses to hide among civilians.

The pager strike on Hezbollah was a targeted strike with tiny explosives but still the propagandists try to portray that as bad too.

Hamas, Hezbollah, and Israel are all doing what they feel they need to do to survive but when talking about international law, Israeli strikes may be argued as going after legitimate targets (none of have the actual targeting data to judge this - it is possible that many of the strikes were just retribution). Hamas' actions on the 7th, their suicide and shooting attacks have explicitly targeted civilians and many of Hezbollah's rockets are unjustifiable since their limited accuracy makes them no different than carpet bombing.

So yes, Hamas and Hezbollah hiding behind civilians means they have some significant culpability in their deaths.
 

NotADcotor

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There is. From your ICRC FAQs:
Principle of proportionality: IHL prohibits attacks that may be expected to cause excessive incidental civilian harm in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
Direct military advantage that I posted about, cannot be defined as the overall strategic objectives of the war but the direct, immediate and tactical advantage gained for that particular operation, balanced against the civilian deaths incurred in such an operation.
"Let me quote the rest of that for you

The IHL rules on conduct of hostilities aim to strike a balance between military necessity and humanity, seeking mainly to protect civilians from attacks and the effects of hostilities. Principle of distinction: Parties to an armed conflict must "at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objectives".

IHL prohibits attacks directed against civilians, as well as indiscriminate attacks, namely those that strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without distinction. Principle of proportionality: IHL prohibits attacks that may be expected to cause excessive incidental civilian harm in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. In the conduct of hostilities, causing incidental harm to civilians and civilian objects is often unavoidable.

However, IHL places a limit on the extent of incidental harm that is permissible by spelling out how military necessity and considerations of humanity must be balanced in such situations. Principle of precaution: In the conduct of military operations, constant care must be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects. All feasible precautions must be taken to avoid, and in any event to minimize, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.

Given the significant risk of harm to civilians whenever the military is executing an attack, IHL imposes detailed obligations to those planning, deciding on or carrying out attacks. It also requires parties to the conflict to protect civilians and civilian objects under their control against the effects of attacks. "

Which Israel has been doing, they have been very successful in dropping the civilian to combatent death ratio about 1/4 or less than the standard and lower than the US was able to do.

It's war, people die, they have been doing everything they can to prevent it, Hamas has been doing everything they can to get their people killed.
The rules say nothing about how all civilian deaths must be avoided, and unlike what the terb hate crew claims, civilian deaths are not evidence of genocide or ethnic cleansing.
The only way Israel could do more is to refuse to fight anyone who refuses to fight out in the open. They might as well just disband their military. No other signatory of the GC would go that far. When Russia lobs missles into cities, that is considered a dick more. Civilians who die in street fighting... maternal fornicators should have left before the fighting started.

But again none of this applies because Hamas gives no fucks about the Geneva conventions so they don't apply.
 
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basketcase

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I'd be happy if they were banned from terb, there are rules against hate speech here, and being a private group not governmental, morally speaking the concept of free speech doesn't apply, the freedom of association does.
Not to mention rules against people banned coming back with a new handle. Just ask groggy/Flubadub.
 

basketcase

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You are right. No military value in October 7, which makes it a war crime and a terror attack.
But every action of Israel has not been to crush the group. Example: The bombing of tents in Rafah, which was a war crime.
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As I said in the other post, Israel claims there were Hamas leaders using it. Hamas officials say it was all civilians. None of us knows what data Israel used in targeting or whether any of the dead were fighters.

At least Hezbollah admits when Israeli strikes wipe out their leaders.
 
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basketcase

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...

Is there an accepted formula to calculate the relative worth of military value vs. loss of civilian life. ...
There is. Not from any international law but according to mil bloggers, the US has each potential strike reviewed by lawyers and have a set ratio for their cutoff in different situations. Can't remember if it was Ryan McBeth, Cappy who discussed this. It's likely that Israel and every other western military has their own system.
 

mandrill

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The anti-Jewish sentiment and starting the the 20's have always been the problem. There was 47 years of Arab attacks on Jews before any occupation.
Here's a partial list of Arab atrocities against Jews in the ME.

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