TPS officer killed

[mandrill]

So more testimony and video evidence released today.

First off, Const Pais was caught perjuring himself after he admitted in cross examination that he punched the driver in the face AFTER he had handcuffed him and he was kneeling on the ground! He said 'you just ran over a cop/my partner' when he punched the.handcuffed suspect in the face.

But yesterday (according to news coverage) the LYING FUCKING POS said in examination in chief that he hit him in the face while he was in the drivers seat because he was non-responding to his commands. Implying or shading his testimony that it was innocent and lawful to cause compliance with his ostensibly lawful order.

WHEN THE FUCK WILL THESE LYING FUCKING BULLIES WITH BADGES EVER GET CHARGED FOR ASSAULT, PERJURY and all the other criminal acts they get away with?

Second, you'll notice in this screenshot of the police body cam that Const LIAR Pais does not himself have any badge visible! He was wearing a zip up sweatshirt and crew neck black t-shirt that he'd really have had to struggle to pull his badge on a chain up and over to be visible. And before anyone says oh, maybe he had it in his badge wallet and just put it back... yeah right! In all that self-described split second action he would have dropped his walkie talkie (visible in his hand) or used his off-hand to pull out his badge and then put it back away?

Except Pais arrived from his van AFTER the action had happened. Whether his badge was visible or not would not have affected the accused's perception of the initial encounter with Lisa and Northrupp. And if he's driving around, why would his badge be visible?..... He's not interacting with the public until he exits the car to arrest a guy who just killed a cop.

And yes, he's an asshole. But that's beside the point.

You an see also in the next screen capture that the fingerprint powder shows somebody with a big right hand had slammed once on the drivers window, and then the hand slid in a direction indicating that the door was being opened from the inside. Then multiple left hand prints on the door frame to pull it open! No hand prints visible on the door handle. This suggests to this CSI Miami amateur Detective that the driver opened the door from the inside once someone with a big hand put their hand on the window!

Notice no small hand prints that might have been from Sgt Lisa?

View attachment 309136

The hand prints are too smudged to really ground much of any conclusions about anything.

Now for Schlong Connery's next exhibit... notice that Det Lisa is notably short in stature. And has a nice rack ( o ) ( o ) on her!

And notice how low her badge is hanging? And that she has her oversized zippered sweatshirt open?

In the heat of the moment when her naturally shaded self-serving testimony was that she "approached the car with purpose", is it unreasonable for some mild mannered slightly built father and husband who has might have heard some fast footsteps approaching as he jumped into the car and slammed the door shut.. that her badge on the ballchain was swinging or not readily visible? Her T-shirt had some big metallic logo on it too. Easy for the lack of contrast or otherwise fail to identify the little badge bouncing around with her sweater puppies bouncing around. No?

Even if he saw some glance of what appeared to be a badge, in the heat of the moment and given the context of her scruffy appearance in an unexpected "approach with purpose" how can he ascertain if it was even an authentic police badge? Look at her. She is dressed roughly enough to look like a druggie aggressively panhandling ahem "approaching with purpose"? Same with the late Const Northrup. He looks scruffy, as he intended to in his old clothes role!

I think the badge would still be visible. The question is whether the accused asked what was happening or tried to get any explanation from the cops. I don't think you can simply assume hostile purpose under s. 34. There has to be an imminent threat.

I actually don't have a problem with the female cop's testimony because it describes exactly what I think would have been happening.

There is so much more to unpack in today's testimony alone. FFS, the two nice white cars waiting to pay to exit, fucking roared off and busted through the gates when they heard the commotion. It's gonna take some real action to cause two people to knowingly damage their own nice new cars to get the fuck outta there. Would be interesting to coordinate/match time stamps to see if the cars roared off on the sound of yelling or the BMW's tire squealing or the minvan blocking impact.

But again this happened afterwards, when the cop had been killed and the white van had slammed the accused's car.

So yeah, scared bystanders fucking off as fast as they can.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

Here's what I'm stuck on.

If your route of escape necessarily involves a potentially serious assault on someone else, it's still an assault, even if you really just want to get tf out of there.

Even if your escape is to avoid being seriously assaulted by the someone you are trying to escape from?

 

[mandrill]

Even if your escape is to avoid being seriously assaulted by the someone you are trying to escape from?

But the cops weren't going to assault him. The perp just believed they were - apparently.

 

[SchlongConery]

Here's what I'm stuck on.

If your route of escape necessarily involves a potentially serious assault on someone else, it's still an assault, even if you really just want to get tf out of there.

Agreed it is an assault. Poking someone in the chest or laying a finger is an assault. Even if there is no injury.

It is my understanding of Canadian law on self defence is that it an attempt to extricate yourself from what you reasonably believe to be a situation that may result in a threat to your personal safety is almost a prerequisite to escalating to active self defence acts.

So if someone rushes "with purpose" up to your car and sticks their hand in the door to prevent you from closing it.. and your instinct in that moment is to slam it shut and their hand gets hurt... then what? You drive the Gardiner to Spadina. I don't even make eye contact with anyone who comes up to my door while stopped in traffic. Heck I don't even look sideways at any car beside me. Fucking lunatics on the road these days.

So I never even look at nor acknowledge anyone, let alone a scruffy, possibly mentally ill vagrant who approach my and every car every fucking time there is a red light.

Not long ago I had this one guy (ironically he looked just like PC Northrup did that night) come up to my car at around midnight while I was the second car in line in the left lane at the lights EB Gardiner to NB Spadina.ramp. He stopped at my door. I kept my eyes straight ahead. He said something to me, I ignored him then he started yelling something I couldn't make out. I double checked my power door locks and the click of the lock infuriated him and he banged on my window. I took off around the car ahead into the empty righ tlande and went through the intersection illegally onto EB lakeshore. All before the third stike landed and . On a red light. Always being aware of who is near or appraochng the intersection I felt I was clear. So yeah, if I hit another car I think I'd be justified. I wouldn't have any reason to beleive this was an undercover cop either as I had no guilty mind etc. Glad I have a dash cam too! So yeah, I can feel for the guy even though I had no adrenaline and I knew I had an escape route.

Anyways...

So far it is only the testimony of the police officers that they approached in a non threatening manner and clearly identified themselves as police officers. Today's testimony of PC Correa has also been proven to be contrary to his previous preliminary hearing testimony. PC Pais today's perjurious confession to criminally assaulting a handcuffed prisoner on his knees pretty much shits the bed on his credibility.

PC POS Pais has an adjudicated history of lying after falsely accusing some boys of the despicable cowardly police tactic of "assaulting police". Despite his conviction for professional misconduct by his own fellow police officers,, and subsequent unsuccessful appeal... the unrepentant hot head liar has the gall to still refuse, today in court, to acknowledge his illegal and dishonest, dishonourable conduct.

" Hasan also questioned Pais about being found guilty of professional misconduct involving the 2011 unlawful arrest of a group of black teen boys whom he and a partner stopped while they were walking in their own housing complex. After a brief interaction, Pais and another officer detained and arrested the boys for assaulting police.

“But they didn’t assault anybody, correct?” Hasan asked.

“Subjectively my belief was different at the time,” as well as his partner’s, he replied.

Pais agreed that he appealed the professional misconduct decision, and lost."


(Today's Torstar coverage is pretty enlightening.)

Toronto cop describes ‘very abrupt, dangerous’ movements before death of Const. Jeffrey Northrup

“Jeff braces for impact, faces the vehicle, both his hands are up in the air,” Const. Antonio Correa testified.

www.thestar.com

 

[mandrill]

Agreed it is an assault. Poking someone in the chest or laying a finger is an assault. Even if there is no injury.

It is my understanding of Canadian law on self defence is that it an attempt to extricate yourself from what you reasonably believe to be a situation that may result in a threat to your personal safety is almost a prerequisite to escalating to active self defence acts.

So if someone rushes "with purpose" up to your car and sticks their hand in the door to prevent you from closing it.. and your instinct in that moment is to slam it shut and their hand gets hurt... then what? So far it is only the testimony of the police officers that they approached in a non threatening manner and clearly identified themselves as police officers. Today's testimony of PC Correa has also been proven to be contrary to his previous preliminary hearing testimony. PC Pais today's perjurious confession to criminally assaulting a handcuffed prisoner on his knees pretty much shits the bed on his credibility.

PC POS Pais has an adjudicated history of lying after falsely accusing some boys of the despicable cowardly police tactic of "assaulting police". Despite his conviction for professional misconduct by his own fellow police officers,, and subsequent unsuccessful appeal... the unrepentant hot head liar has the gall to still refuse, today in court, to acknowledge his illegal and dishonest, dishonourable conduct.

" Hasan also questioned Pais about being found guilty of professional misconduct involving the 2011 unlawful arrest of a group of black teen boys whom he and a partner stopped while they were walking in their own housing complex. After a brief interaction, Pais and another officer detained and arrested the boys for assaulting police.

“But they didn’t assault anybody, correct?” Hasan asked.

“Subjectively my belief was different at the time,” as well as his partner’s, he replied.

Pais agreed that he appealed the professional misconduct decision, and lost."


(Today's Torstar coverage is pretty enlightening.)

Toronto cop describes ‘very abrupt, dangerous’ movements before death of Const. Jeffrey Northrup

“Jeff braces for impact, faces the vehicle, both his hands are up in the air,” Const. Antonio Correa testified.

www.thestar.com

The accused's belief still has to be reasonable - i.e. non hysterical and balanced.

How does he form a reasonable belief that he's going to be carjacked when this is clearly not going to happen?

At the very most, he had two scruffy undercovers who were stressed and brusque to deal with. He can't assume that he's going to be carjacked and kill one of the officers by ramming him with the car. That's not a reasonable response.

 

[Not getting younger]

Agreed it is an assault. Poking someone in the chest or laying a finger is an assault. Even if there is no injury.

It is my understanding of Canadian law on self defence is that it an attempt to extricate yourself from what you reasonably believe to be a situation that may result in a threat to your personal safety is almost a prerequisite to escalating to active self defence acts.

So if someone rushes "with purpose" up to your car and sticks their hand in the door to prevent you from closing it.. and your instinct in that moment is to slam it shut and their hand gets hurt... then what? You drive the Gardiner to Spadina. I don't even make eye contact with anyone who comes up to my door while stopped in traffic. Heck I don't even look sideways at any car beside me. Fucking lunatics on the road these days.

So I never even look at nor acknowledge anyone, let alone a scruffy, possibly mentally ill vagrant who approach my and every car every fucking time there is a red light.

Not long ago I had this one guy (ironically he looked just like PC Northrup did that night) come up to my car at around midnight while I was the second car in line in the left lane at the lights EB Gardiner to NB Spadina.ramp. He stopped at my door. I kept my eyes straight ahead. He said something to me, I ignored him then he started yelling something I couldn't make out. I double checked my power door locks and the click of the lock infuriated him and he banged on my window. I took off around the car ahead into the empty righ tlande and went through the intersection illegally onto EB lakeshore. All before the third stike landed and . On a red light. Always being aware of who is near or appraochng the intersection I felt I was clear. So yeah, if I hit another car I think I'd be justified. I wouldn't have any reason to beleive this was an undercover cop either as I had no guilty mind etc. Glad I have a dash cam too! So yeah, I can feel for the guy even though I had no adrenaline and I knew I had an escape route.

Anyways...

So far it is only the testimony of the police officers that they approached in a non threatening manner and clearly identified themselves as police officers. Today's testimony of PC Correa has also been proven to be contrary to his previous preliminary hearing testimony. PC Pais today's perjurious confession to criminally assaulting a handcuffed prisoner on his knees pretty much shits the bed on his credibility.

PC POS Pais has an adjudicated history of lying after falsely accusing some boys of the despicable cowardly police tactic of "assaulting police". Despite his conviction for professional misconduct by his own fellow police officers,, and subsequent unsuccessful appeal... the unrepentant hot head liar has the gall to still refuse, today in court, to acknowledge his illegal and dishonest, dishonourable conduct.

" Hasan also questioned Pais about being found guilty of professional misconduct involving the 2011 unlawful arrest of a group of black teen boys whom he and a partner stopped while they were walking in their own housing complex. After a brief interaction, Pais and another officer detained and arrested the boys for assaulting police.

“But they didn’t assault anybody, correct?” Hasan asked.

“Subjectively my belief was different at the time,” as well as his partner’s, he replied.

Pais agreed that he appealed the professional misconduct decision, and lost."


(Today's Torstar coverage is pretty enlightening.)

Toronto cop describes ‘very abrupt, dangerous’ movements before death of Const. Jeffrey Northrup

“Jeff braces for impact, faces the vehicle, both his hands are up in the air,” Const. Antonio Correa testified.

www.thestar.com

one and one question only.
Have you ever been in a situation like that.

I’m guessing no matter what you do. There are certain things you do without even really thinking about them. Just comes automatically. . Like using loud voices to get someone’s attention and banging on a hood. Like yelling “police”. One thing I’m pretty sure of.

Carjackers likewise have things they do…and don’t like yelling and screaming banging on cars in very public places. Especially a place with loaded with cops and guns.

For all anyone knows, he feels exactly the way you do. “I’m tired of bullies with badges”.

So if it’s a case of he said she said. I know who is far more credible. Making a scene in a place loaded with cops…not something many bangers are gonna do.

 

[SchlongConery]

@mandrill

Before I keep shooting my mouth off more... I'm going to try to go through whatever court reporting there has been thus far to try to figure out the timeline and who did and said what, when and how.

Because I'm not only not sure of the picture of the sequence of events, I'm even more confused.

I realize I may be making some pretty serious disparaging statements without having a clearer picture. For example, I interpret contradictory understanding of whether the BMW first hit PC Northrup backing up, or going forward. Or whether the first contact was a sideswipe.

But my sincere instinct is that the driver had a sincere apprehension of imminent risk to himself, pregnant wife and small boy. I think he reacted instinctively and without believing that he was fleeing from police.

If the law says his actions were uunreasonable under the circumstances and the Judge/Jury agrees, well I will accept that decision as they will have more first hand knowledge to make that decision.

One thing I am absolutely certain of though through many personal direct involvement with reported events.. Is that even the most well intentioned, unbiased careful reporters ALWAYS get more than a few things COMPLETELY wrong. So even with my trying to get the complete accurate picture of what went on in Court, I won't.

So I'll excuse myself, revisit and reply sine die!

 

[Nathan 88]

If I’m in an underground garage, and a couple of scruffy looking, people are approaching me in a aggressive way, it’s gonna make me a little bit nervous, even if they show a badge, which nowadays can be easily obtained from a number of sources.
Do you take a chance and believe they are police or do you try and make a run for it.
To be honest, I really don’t know what I would do.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

But the cops weren't going to assault him. The perp just believed they were - apparently.

My point still stands.

"If your route of escape necessarily involves a potentially serious assault on someone else, it's still an assault, even if you really just want to get tf out of there."

Doesn't make any difference according to you whether the threat is real or imagined. If it is real, according to you, it is still an assault to try to escape, even if it involves injuring the attacker to save your own life.

 

[Kautilya]

So if someone rushes "with purpose" up to your car and sticks their hand in the door to prevent you from closing it.. and your instinct in that moment is to slam it shut and their hand gets hurt... then what? You drive the Gardiner to Spadina. I don't even make eye contact with anyone who comes up to my door while stopped in traffic. Heck I don't even look sideways at any car beside me. Fucking lunatics on the road these days.

So I never even look at nor acknowledge anyone, let alone a scruffy, possibly mentally ill vagrant who approach my and every car every fucking time there is a red light.

Not long ago I had this one guy (ironically he looked just like PC Northrup did that night) come up to my car at around midnight while I was the second car in line in the left lane at the lights EB Gardiner to NB Spadina.ramp. He stopped at my door. I kept my eyes straight ahead. He said something to me, I ignored him then he started yelling something I couldn't make out. I double checked my power door locks and the click of the lock infuriated him and he banged on my window. I took off around the car ahead into the empty righ tlande and went through the intersection illegally onto EB lakeshore. All before the third stike landed and . On a red light. Always being aware of who is near or appraochng the intersection I felt I was clear. So yeah, if I hit another car I think I'd be justified. I wouldn't have any reason to beleive this was an undercover cop either as I had no guilty mind etc. Glad I have a dash cam too! So yeah, I can feel for the guy even though I had no adrenaline and I knew I had an escape route.

For real. I was just taking a walk down Queen, towards Parkdale and this mentally ill vagrant, who was on the sidewalk, pretty much, looked directly at every pedestrian, and barred his teeth, grinding it while making weird noises. I immediately just crossed over to the other side. Wasn't sure if it was some nut job on bath salts who'd eat half my face or whatever.

 

[Butler1000]

More I'm seeing reporting on this the more I'm seeing reasonable doubt.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

problem solved

 

[SchlongConery]

problem solved

It's for real! At least it was 10-15 or so years ago! A guy I met here in Canada owned a small cell network company in SA and he told me had that installed. Said his house had razor wire and had to have guards wth machine gun nests.

Another (Euro) friend loves SA and bought a vacation place somewhere in rural SA. He retired last year and says things are so fucking dangerous and utilities so unstable that he may never move there , or even go back.

I've always wanted to visit SA but am apprehensive. Anyone actually been there recently? Is it that bad or just exaggerated?

 

[SchlongConery]

For real. I was just taking a walk down Queen, towards Parkdale and this mentally ill vagrant, who was on the sidewalk, pretty much, looked directly at every pedestrian, and barred his teeth, grinding it while making weird noises. I immediately just crossed over to the other side. Wasn't sure if it was some nut job on bath salts who'd eat half my face or whatever.

Yeah it can really be unsettling.

A few years ago after a distant relative that I was actually close to took their own life after beginning to develop mild schizophrenia I tried to learn more about it to tr to understand.

This relatively mild 5 minute CNN segment was all I could take. There are more intense simulatoions on YouTube but beware,

It helped me understand and empathize with the people I pass on the streets in the same area, Made me less afraid because it seems that while you thnk you are the subject of their actions and words, it is occurring within their own minds, So now I just pass by without any changes if I don't notice them far enough away. My thinkng is that I don't wantto attract their attention.

Well worrth the 5 minutes. Gave me a completely different perspective on mental illness in general.

 

[Kautilya]

Yeah it can really be unsettling.

A few years ago after a distant relative that I was actually close to took their own life after beginning to develop mild schizophrenia I tried to learn more about it to tr to understand.

This relatively mild 5 minute CNN segment was all I could take. There are more intense simulatoions on YouTube but beware,

It helped me understand and empathize with the people I pass on the streets in the same area, Made me less afraid because it seems that while you thnk you are the subject of their actions and words, it is occurring within their own minds, So now I just pass by without any changes if I don't notice them far enough away. My thinkng is that I don't wantto attract their attention.

Well worrth the 5 minutes. Gave me a completely different perspective on mental illness in general.

Yeah, I just saw a few videos of Schizophrenia. It is quite disturbing.

 

[SchlongConery]

Yeah, I just saw a few videos of Schizophrenia. It is quite disturbing.

Do you think that simulation helps you understand it and maybe have less fear of the guy you encountered? It did for me. But I couldn't watch anything stronger than the Anderson Cooper segment. Made me feel claustrophobic. I'd go bonkers if I actually tried the simulation with earbuds. Those poor people who have to live with that.

 

[Kautilya]

Do you think that simulation helps you understand it and maybe have less fear of the guy you encountered? It did for me. But I couldn't watch anything stronger than the Anderson Cooper segment. Made me feel claustrophobic. I'd go bonkers if I actually tried the simulation with earbuds. Those poor people who have to live with that.

Yes it gave me a better understanding. I even watched a few videos of this girl who suffers from schizophrenia and documents herself having episodes. The Anderson Cooper segment gave me anxiety. Cant imagine the difficulty where someone's world is consumed by this.

 

[SchlongConery]

The Anderson Cooper segment gave me anxiety.

Cant imagine the difficulty where someone's world is consumed by this.

Yeah, me too. On both counts!

 

[Not getting younger]

If I’m in an underground garage, and a couple of scruffy looking, people are approaching me in a aggressive way, it’s gonna make me a little bit nervous, even if they show a badge, which nowadays can be easily obtained from a number of sources.
Do you take a chance and believe they are police or do you try and make a run for it.
To be honest, I really don’t know what I would do.

No-one does. Until your in a situation where adrenaline/cortisol and emotions spike large.

That said.
if your looking to jack a car in a public place you know is filled with cops………

…or if you are Johnny Q potential victim in a public place you know is filled with cops.

Me first reactions?

Lean on the horn if I don’t have a gun in my face, or give them the car. Nor am I going to jump on the gas pedal and think I’m a stunt driver in a parking garage. There’s all kinds of hard immovable things around….

I have a wife and baby on board and I know the place is filled with cops.

 

[mandrill]

My point still stands.

"If your route of escape necessarily involves a potentially serious assault on someone else, it's still an assault, even if you really just want to get tf out of there."

Doesn't make any difference according to you whether the threat is real or imagined. If it is real, according to you, it is still an assault to try to escape, even if it involves injuring the attacker to save your own life.

If it's real, the accused arguably meets the proportionality test in s. 34. If it is imaginary, how can his reaction to flee by killing one of the imagined assailants be proportional?