TPS officer killed

[Valcazar]

IF I may say so... maybe this North American maniacal POLICE- STOP- GET DOWN GET DOWN!!!!! seemingly universal police tactic should be reconsidered.

As you know from previous discussions on this board, though, the view here is that police should always be ready to kill anyone at any time because their lives are dangerous and getting home safe is the most important thing.
That shall never be questioned and it is always the civilian's fault for not preventing the officer from killing them by behaving differently.

 

[Valcazar]

It's a pretty clear Murder One, if the Crown's account is true. Cops ID-ed themselves multiple times and the accused struck the cop with the car 3x, finally crushing him.

What else were the cops supposed to do?..... On duty cops have to be protected.

"If the Crown's account is true" is doing a lot of work here.
I don't know how far along we are in the evidence, so maybe at this point we have good reason to believe it is.
But as anyone knows, the report by the cops about an incident are almost always false and spun to make it look like the cops are blameless. They count on people defaulting to "On duty cops have to be protected" and just accepting what the cops say.

 

[Valcazar]

If that's the case, what protects any scruffy looking undercover cop from simply being killed at random by any person who claims to be scared?

The fact most people aren't killers looking for an excuse.

 

[mandrill]

"If the Crown's account is true" is doing a lot of work here.
I don't know how far along we are in the evidence, so maybe at this point we have good reason to believe it is.
But as anyone knows, the report by the cops about an incident are almost always false and spun to make it look like the cops are blameless. They count on people defaulting to "On duty cops have to be protected" and just accepting what the cops say.

Except if I am a cop and I approach a potential witness or suspect, I'm going to automatically pull out my badge and say "Police!" because why not. Plus I'm trained to do that.

 

[mandrill]

The fact most people aren't killers looking for an excuse.

That's his trump card. That's what makes people hesitate and think. He's an accountant out with his wife and kid and he has no motive.

 

[princekwekua]

The case has been made that defendant did not believe badges being flashed were genuine. He was justified in thinking he and his family were potential victims of carjacking.
Would be a totally different case if officers had been in uniform. In which case failing to comply with instructions from LE leading to death would justify a charge of manslaughter.
As it stands, defendant is not guilty.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

The case has been made that defendant did not believe badges being flashed were genuine. He was justified in thinking he and his family were potential victims of carjacking.
Would be a totally different case if officers had been in uniform. In which case failing to comply with instructions from LE leading to death would justify a charge of manslaughter.
As it stands, defendant is not guilty.

That's how car jackers usually do it. Flash badges but still try to look like thugs, just to confuse you. Happens all the time.....

 

[mandrill]

The case has been made that defendant did not believe badges being flashed were genuine. He was justified in thinking he and his family were potential victims of carjacking.
Would be a totally different case if officers had been in uniform. In which case failing to comply with instructions from LE leading to death would justify a charge of manslaughter.
As it stands, defendant is not guilty.

That means that an undercover cop could never make an arrest and that the criminal would always have the legal right to kill that cop. Think about it.

 

[mitchell76]

You seem a little confused as to how the Criminal Code works and who administers justice in the courts in this jurisdiction.

I'm sure he'll get due process. But it also looks like he committed Murder in the First.

Yes, but both police officers were in plain clothes and masks. How was the guy supposed to know they were police officers?? Also as someone said upthread, it could have been a fake police badge!!

That's why the judge granted him 3yrs of bail before his 1st degree murder trial began, which is highly unusual!!

 

[mitchell76]

If that's the case, what protects any scruffy looking undercover cop from simply being killed at random by any person who claims to be scared?

Well, they should dress in their proper police uniforms to prevent misunderstandings, like what happened in this case!!

 

[Valcazar]

Except if I am a cop and I approach a potential witness or suspect, I'm going to automatically pull out my badge and say "Police!" because why not. Plus I'm trained to do that.

Sure.
But that's not what is being reported here, right.
It's a whole longer series of things ending in this guy running into them multiple times with the car.

I don't doubt that the cops yelled "police" at one point.

But look, I haven't been following the case and I don't know where we are in terms of evidence that has been backed up by anything.
Maybe that report is a later one with lots of corroborating evidence and not the initial police statement and my doubts are unwarranted.

 

[Valcazar]

That means that an undercover cop could never make an arrest and that the criminal would always have the legal right to kill that cop. Think about it.

Explain your logic.
Do you honestly think this leads to drug dealers in sting operations shooting a cop and claiming self defence because the cop was undercover and that working?

 

[JackBurton]

It occur to anyone else that this whole situation could have been de escalated by the undercover cops calling for uniformed back up, take the plate and call it in?

Something isn’t adding up and the chick cop is covering up something.

 

[smart_alek]

Downtown is full of tweakers and homeless.

Like I said before, a cops line is “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6”

If it’s a good enough philosophy for the police then it’s a good enough philosophy for civilians if I was protecting my child and pregnant wife.

Or are you advocating that police should have different powers for the law over civilians?

Cop fucked around and found out.

No you see, police have different rules than us civilian pieces of shit

 

[Adam_hadam]

The case has been made that defendant did not believe badges being flashed were genuine. He was justified in thinking he and his family were potential victims of carjacking.
Would be a totally different case if officers had been in uniform. In which case failing to comply with instructions from LE leading to death would justify a charge of manslaughter.
As it stands, defendant is not guilty.

Perhaps not guilty of 1st degree murder, possibly guilty of a lesser charge like vehicular manslaughter.

 

[wigglee]

"The Criminal Code says that the murder of an on-duty police officer is considered first-degree murder regardless of whether it was planned and deliberate"..... so now we know the law is an ass.

 

[princekwekua]

"The Criminal Code says that the murder of an on-duty police officer is considered first-degree murder regardless of whether it was planned and deliberate"..... so now we know the law is an ass.

There was not 100% certainty he was a police officer. Totally different if he was in uniform as I said.

 

[Jenesis]

Except if I am a cop and I approach a potential witness or suspect, I'm going to automatically pull out my badge and say "Police!" because why not. Plus I'm trained to do that.

If you are undercover or off duty and coming to me with a badge or not, I’m not believing you. I’m calling the actual police.

Why? Because there are too many predatory people out there in the world.

Police have uniforms for a reason. So we can ID them before having to ID them with badge and stuff.

I have had detectives come to my door for stuff. I always call switchboard to ID them before hand. Maybe it is the woman in me and the precautions women have to take but I’m not believing some rando claiming to be a cop. I’m just not.

And to be clear - this isn’t an “I don’t trust cops” thing or a “I hate cops” thing. It is a people thing because without a uniform and without IDing you from the actual police department that I know - I don’t know you are a cop.

 

[Scopez]

Prosecution/police fought for a publican ban on this case.. Wanted the story to just go down as "man runs over cop after stabbing downtown"...

Why are undercovers approaching general public in this manner? If he is spotted in a parking garage and you have an unmarked suv, why not follow him and have an officer in marked vehicle and uniform pull him over outside of parking structure then question / detain him...

When it was clear he was startled, attempted to flee, then was blocked by a large unmarked SUV, why did two human bodies stand infront / behind his vehicle...?

It was poor police work and lack of awareness that got this officer killed. This man was just a human trying to protect his family and these officers single handedly fucked his life.

 

[mandrill]

There was not 100% certainty he was a police officer. Totally different if he was in uniform as I said.

How difficult is it for a criminal to obtain a replica police uniform?