Ashley Madison

Does anyone believe that Al-Ahli Arab Hospital was hit by the HAMAs?

PeteOsborne

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Did I see Frank say he will wait for a third party independent investigation? When from the very beginning he has been blaming Israel and sharing pro Palestinian/Hamas tweets?


So, about the size of an RPG fired into the ground?
I believe RPG rounds are half that size but I haven't looked it up.
 

Not getting younger

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There are UN inspectors based in GAZA.
In an interview with CNN a UN inspector in GAZA said " The local authorities did not give me free access to the area or were very unhappy that I was trying to investigate something that had clearly gone wrong from their point of view.”
Marc Garlasco, the former defense intelligence analyst and UN war crimes investigator, says there are signs of a lack of evidence at the Al-Ahli Hospital site.
He was allowed in but had a "guided tour" the day after.
He then went on to say “When I investigate a site of a potential war crime the first thing I do is locate and identify parts of the weapon. The weapon tells you who did it and how. I’ve never seen such a lack of physical evidence for a weapon at a site. Ever. There’s always a piece of a bomb after the fact. In 20 years of investigating war crimes this is the first time I haven’t seen any weapon remnants. And I’ve worked three wars in Gaza.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/midd...nsic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast?cid=ios_app
Blows my mind, that so many have been so willing to discount what is the most damning peice of evidence there is.

The lack of physical evidence.

Don’t want to see what we can see? Ok fine whatever. Make up whatever excuses. What’s not plausible is no evidence, none.
 
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PeteOsborne

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Those intel services have been known to lie especially about middle east affairs. They were also the ones who told us there were WMDs in Iraq and invaded an entire nation to take out Saddam. So I see no reason to consider them trustworthy. While Israel's demonstrated behaviour in Gaza seems to indicate the opposite. I wouldn't put this beyond Israel or Hamas for that matter. Which is why am considering it "unclear".
Canadas intelligence service said there were no WMDs in Iraq, they are now saying that the hospital was not hit by Israeli weapons.
 

richaceg

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Its the occupation.
75 years of settler colonial occupation and land theft.

Israel has killed 2000 children, not Hamas.
Keep up with the bullshit...you're laughable at t his point....Hamas fired about thousands of rockets to Israel....that tells you what their intentions are....to inflict as much damage as they can...Israel is clever enough to invest on bomb shelters for it's civilians....something Hamas don't seem to not bother investing for palestinians (now why is that?) and the Israel only fired a fraction of what Hamas has fired....at strategic areas...Hamas is clever enough to put palestinian civilians in the forefront as their "shelters"...and now we have fools like you crying on here....
 

Anbarandy

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There are UN inspectors based in GAZA.
In an interview with CNN a UN inspector in GAZA said " The local authorities did not give me free access to the area or were very unhappy that I was trying to investigate something that had clearly gone wrong from their point of view.”
Marc Garlasco, the former defense intelligence analyst and UN war crimes investigator, says there are signs of a lack of evidence at the Al-Ahli Hospital site.
He was allowed in but had a "guided tour" the day after.
He then went on to say “When I investigate a site of a potential war crime the first thing I do is locate and identify parts of the weapon. The weapon tells you who did it and how. I’ve never seen such a lack of physical evidence for a weapon at a site. Ever. There’s always a piece of a bomb after the fact. In 20 years of investigating war crimes this is the first time I haven’t seen any weapon remnants. And I’ve worked three wars in Gaza.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/midd...nsic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast?cid=ios_app
Hamas is probably holding parts/fragments of the weapon in question hostage in addition to having a rapid response "it's not us" crime scene scrubbing and cleaning squad.
 

toguy5252

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Hamas is probably holding parts/fragments of the weapon in question hostage in addition to having a rapid response "it's not us" crime scene scrubbing and cleaning squad.
the truth at this point is regrettably irrelevant. The lies have had their desired and intended effect aided and abetted by the Jew haters.
 

toguy5252

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It is not anti-semitism to think Israel did it. There is ample demonstrated behaviour from the last 75 years, where Gaza has been bombed to shit, civilian buildings like hospitals, schools, mosques etc reduced to rubble and 1000s of civilians dying in the process. You cannot deny that reality. This does not absolve Hamas obviously, but I am taking issue with your characterization that questioning the Israeli narrative, is anti-semitism. Which it is not. That is a tactic that used to work, to shut down opposition, but I think that tactic has gone stale and is no longer considered effective.
To say that Israel is responsible in the face of the contrary conclusion of virtually every western intelligence agency is to accept the lies of Hamas which is virulently antisemitici do no I do not agree. And pointing to other bombings etc does change the reality of this hospital and this tragedy.
 

Not getting younger

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It is not anti-semitism to think Israel did it. There is ample demonstrated behaviour from the last 75 years, where Gaza has been bombed to shit, civilian buildings like hospitals, schools, mosques etc reduced to rubble and 1000s of civilians dying in the process. You cannot deny that reality. This does not absolve Hamas obviously, but I am taking issue with your characterization that questioning the Israeli narrative, is anti-semitism. Which it is not. That is a tactic that used to work, to shut down opposition, but I think that tactic has gone stale and is no longer considered effective.
Would be like using the charge of racism to shut down opposition, opposing viewpoints ?

Western intelligence agencies are not neutral parties in this conflict either. They are partisan.
One very simple question then. What plausible reason do you have, or can think of. For no fragments being found?
 

Anbarandy

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I don't know. Everything we hear about is sus. May be in the process of removing bodies, the area was cleaned up or mishandled. Who knows what happened there after the explosion?
Stretch Armstrong Kautilya.
 

Not getting younger

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I don't know. Everything we hear about is sus. May be in the process of removing bodies, the area was cleaned up or mishandled. Who knows what happened there after the explosion?
Does Hamas care about human dignity? Play the “what if” game. What if it was Israel. You’re a Hamas leader, you don’t give a shit about Palestinians and Israel just destroyed a hospital and killed a few hundred people.

Options.
- order people to clean up
-order people not to save any bodies with shrapnel sticking out their foreheads.
-order people to move heaven and earth to find fragments?
 
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toguy5252

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Would be like using the charge of racism to shut down opposition, opposing viewpoints ?



One very simple question then. What plausible reason do you have, or can think of. For no fragments being found?
not at all. Opposing viewpoints are important. Denying reality and evidence to excuse or cast doubt on acts on which there is no doubt is not an opposing point of view. It is antisemitism.
 

richaceg

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I don't think Hamas is in control of a damn thing here. There is no governance. There are no standard operating procedures. There is no infrastructure or coordination. It is a war zone. Things could have been moved or removed or be tampered with. How do you even know there were no fragments? Based on whose word? The UN guy who got a short "guided" tour? Or a couple of pictures? Its all very vague and unclear.
They actually do control Gaza....what they don't control are the resources flowing into Gaza because they didn't build any....what they do control are the people....the run the "open air prison" sure let's call gaza exactly that....who supplies water power and internet? sure it's Israel, but who's controlling in Gaza's end? it's Hamas.
 

Leimonis

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I don't think Hamas is in control of a damn thing here. There is no governance. There are no standard operating procedures. There is no infrastructure or coordination. It is a war zone. Things could have been moved or removed or be tampered with. How do you even know there were no fragments? Based on whose word? The UN guy who got a short "guided" tour? Or a couple of pictures? Its all very vague and unclear.
Hamas said there was no fragments and refused to produce fragments or even “500 bodies” nor did they allow international observers or experts on scene.
what else do you need to know to decide for yourself that it was a mountain made out of a mole?
 

Leimonis

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Its entirely possible Hamas did it too.

Similarly Israel fumbled with their conflicting reports on the day it happened.

Which is why I am saying, both these guys are not trustworthy.
Yet only one of these guys had full control and access to the scene
 

Frankfooter

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There are UN inspectors based in GAZA.
In an interview with CNN a UN inspector in GAZA said " The local authorities did not give me free access to the area or were very unhappy that I was trying to investigate something that had clearly gone wrong from their point of view.”
Marc Garlasco, the former defense intelligence analyst and UN war crimes investigator, says there are signs of a lack of evidence at the Al-Ahli Hospital site.
He was allowed in but had a "guided tour" the day after.
He then went on to say “When I investigate a site of a potential war crime the first thing I do is locate and identify parts of the weapon. The weapon tells you who did it and how. I’ve never seen such a lack of physical evidence for a weapon at a site. Ever. There’s always a piece of a bomb after the fact. In 20 years of investigating war crimes this is the first time I haven’t seen any weapon remnants. And I’ve worked three wars in Gaza.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/21/midd...nsic-analysis-gaza-hospital-blast?cid=ios_app
Your CNN article doesn't say anything about a UN inspector, it does say that a CNN reporter was allowed in and took photos and videos.
The Israeli narrative is still very problematic.

Besides the faked video, faked audio recording, the theory that it was a Palestinian weapon is problematic.

They say there was a fireball but also that the rocket in the video expended all its fuel.

Several weapons experts told CNN that the Al Jazeera video appeared to show a rocket burning out in the sky before crashing into the hospital grounds, but that they could not say with certainty that the two incidents were linked – due to the challenges of calculating the trajectory of a rocket that had failed or changed course mid-flight.

“I believe this happened – a rocket malfunctioned, and it didn’t come down in one piece. It’s likely it fell apart mid-air for some reason and the body of the rocket crashed into the car park. There, the fuel remnants caught fire and ignited cars and other fuel at the hospital, causing the big explosion we saw,” Markus Schiller, a Europe-based missile expert who has worked on analysis for NATO and the European Union, told CNN.

“But it’s impossible for me to confirm. If a rocket malfunctioned… it is impossible to predict its flight path and behavior, so I wouldn’t be able to draw on usual analysis drawing on altitude, flight path and the burn time,” he added.


They have theories that a car exploded but then also say the explosion marks are around the crater, not a car.

There are dark patches on the ground fanning out in a southwesterly direction from the crater. The trees behind it are scorched and a lamppost is entirely knocked over. In contrast, the trees on the other side of the crater are still intact, even with green leaves.

This would be consistent with a rocket approaching from the southwest, as rockets scorch and damage the earth on approach to the ground. If the munition was artillery, however, these markings could indicate it came in from the northeast, spewing debris to the southwest. But if the projectile malfunctioned and broke apart in the air, as CNN’s analysis suggests, the direction of impact reflected by the crater would not be a reliable finding.


The reports the Israel supporters say are authoritative and are not at all definite about their findings.
 

Frankfooter

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Has one ever landed in a courtyard packed with, as reported, a thousand people?
I have read conflicting statements on this as well, that it was hit a week before with 2 warning bombs, then 2 days before, now 1 day.
If they were warning shots, why did they hit the hospital directly insted of the parking lot first then hit the main building?
IDF warning shots always hit the building they are targeting. Though its also accurate to say they aren't firing warning shots very often anymore and are just blowing everything up.

Consider how much they've blown up in general, blaming Palestinians for any destruction seems moot at this point.
Israel's dropped the equivalent of one Hiroshima on the Gaza strip already.

 

Leimonis

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1698190538670.png
 

Frankfooter

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‘Clear violations’ of international law in Gaza: UN chief





Antonio Guterres has called for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, adding there are “clear violations” of international humanitarian law in the besieged enclave.


“Let me be clear: No party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law,” Guterres told a session of the UN Security Council.


Guterres also pushed for much more humanitarian relief to be allowed into Gaza.


“Our UN fuel supplies in Gaza will run out in a matter of days. That would be another disaster. To ease epic suffering, make the delivery of aid easier and safer and facilitate the release of hostages, I reiterate my appeal for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.”


The UN chief says it is important to recognise the attacks by Hamas “did not happen in a vacuum”.


“The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he told UN Security Council members.


“They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements, plagued by violence, their economy stifled, their people displaced, and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”


Guterres, however, said grievances by the Palestinians cannot justify the “appalling attacks” by Hamas, and which in turn could not justify the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people”.


“At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles – starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.”
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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‘Clear violations’ of international law in Gaza: UN chief
Antonio Guterres has called for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, adding there are “clear violations” of international humanitarian law in the besieged enclave.
“Let me be clear: No party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law,” Guterres told a session of the UN Security Council.
Guterres also pushed for much more humanitarian relief to be allowed into Gaza.
“Our UN fuel supplies in Gaza will run out in a matter of days. That would be another disaster. To ease epic suffering, make the delivery of aid easier and safer and facilitate the release of hostages, I reiterate my appeal for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.”
The UN chief says it is important to recognise the attacks by Hamas “did not happen in a vacuum”.
“The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation,” he told UN Security Council members.
“They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements, plagued by violence, their economy stifled, their people displaced, and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”
Guterres, however, said grievances by the Palestinians cannot justify the “appalling attacks” by Hamas, and which in turn could not justify the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people”.
“At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles – starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.”
Oh great, you're quoting a woman who claimed that the Jewish Lobby has subjugated America. I guess you radical anti-semites need to stick together.
 
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basketcase

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IDF warning shots always hit the building they are targeting....
So you admit that Israel warns civilians now. Glad you see reality for once.

Now considering the Gaza rocket landed in the parking lot, there was no building to warn. It's amazing you are still trying to refute the findings of western intelligence services and instead swallow Hamas' obviously bullshit propaganda.

Israel's dropped the equivalent of one Hiroshima on the Gaza strip already.
As I said before, good job undermining your own genocide claims. It shows pretty clearly that Israel is trying to hit Hamas targets and not targeting civilians like you are desperate to pretend.
 
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