That's exactly the backlash Roberts and a lot of the "intellectual dark web" types (as they once were called) are riding.
Jordan Peterson says Ontario psychologist licence may be suspended over public statements
- Thread starter Knuckle Ball
- Start date
Even PhD's like JP, make an occasional spelling mistake----LOL
This is more silly bullshit. Aren't you one of the people who cliamed that "Big Science" had fabricated the COVID pandemic?
Carnivore diet - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
In 2018, the carnivore diet was promoted by former orthopaedic surgeon Shawn Baker on social media and received significant media attention due to its vocal adherents Jordan Peterson and his daughter Mikhaila Peterson.[1][8][9] Peterson and his daughter follow a strict type of carnivore diet termed the lion diet, in which only beef, salt and water is consumed.[9][10][11]
Diet
People following a carnivore diet consume animal-based products, such as beef, pork, poultry, and seafood.[1][12] Some may eat dairy products and eggs.[12] All fruits, legumes, vegetables, grains, nuts and seeds are strictly excluded.[12]
Health and environmental concerns
There is no clinical evidence that the carnivore diet provides any health benefits.[1][11][10] Dietitians dismiss the carnivore diet as an extreme fad diet,[1][2] which has attracted criticism from dietitians and physicians as being potentially dangerous to health (see Meat § Health).[8][11][10][13] It also raises levels of LDL cholesterol, which increases risk of cardiovascular disease.[2] Carnivore diets exclude essential micronutrients and antioxidants found in fruits and vegetables, they are also low in dietary fiber which can cause constipation.[2][4][12] A carnivore diet high in red meat increases risk of colon cancer and gout.[4]
The beefed-up diet 'changing lives' but health experts not so sure
Beef for lunch, beef for dinner and perhaps a little bone broth for breakfast? It sounds like a doctor's nightmare, but the so-called "carnivore diet" is gaining traction — if social media is anything to go by.
www.abc.net.au
The Jordan Peterson All-Meat Diet
The famous psychologist and his daughter swear by a regimen of eating only beef. Restriction can provide a sense of order in a world of chaos—but at what point does restriction become a disorder?
www.theatlantic.com
There is so much evidence—abundant, copious evidence acquired over decades of work from scientists around the world—that most people benefit from eating fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, and seeds. This appears to be largely because fiber in plants is important to the flourishing of the gut microbiome. I ran this by some experts, just to make sure I wasn’t missing anything that might suggest a beef-salt diet is potentially something other than a bad idea. I learned that it was worse than I thought.
“Physiologically, it would just be an immensely bad idea,” Jack Gilbert, the faculty director at the University of Chicago’s Microbiome Center and a professor of surgery, told me during a recent visit to his lab. “A terribly, terribly bad idea.”
Gilbert has done extensive research on how the trillions of microbes in our guts digest food, and the look on his face when I told him about the all-beef diet was unamused. He began rattling off the expected ramifications: “Your body would start to have severe dysregulation, within six months, of the majority of the processes that deal with metabolism; you would have no short-chain fatty acids in your cells; most of the by-products of gastrointestinal polysaccharide fermentation would shut down, so you wouldn’t be able to regulate your hormone levels; you’d enter into cardiac issues due to alterations in cell receptors; your microbiota would just be devastated.”
While much of the internet has been following this story in a somewhat snide way, Gilbert appeared genuinely concerned and saddened: “If she does not die of colon cancer or some other severe cardiometabolic disease, the life—I can’t imagine.”
There are few accounts of people having tried all-beef diets, though all-meat—known as carnivory—is slightly more common. Earlier this month, inspired by the media conversation about the Peterson approach, Alan Levinovitz, the author of The Gluten Lie, tried carnivory, eating only meat for two weeks. He did lose seven pounds, which he attributes to eating fewer calories overall, because he eventually got tired of eating only meat. He missed snacking at coffee shops and browsing the local farmer’s market and trying out new restaurants around town, cooking with his family, and just generally enjoying food.
“I was psychologically exhausted,” Levinovitz told me. When he returned to omnivory, he regained the lost weight in four days.
Peterson told me it took several weeks for her to get used to the beef-only approach, and that the relief of her medical symptoms overpowers any sense of missing food. If even a tiny amount of anything else finds its way into her mouth, she will be ill, she says. This happened when she tried to eat an organic olive, and again recently when she was at a restaurant that put pepper on her steak.
“I was like, whatever, it’s just pepper,” she told me. Then she had a reaction that lasted three weeks and included joint pain, acne, and anxiety.
Apart from having to exist in a world where the possibility of pepper exposure looms, the only other social downside she notices is that she hates asking people to accommodate her diet. So she will usually eat before she goes to a dinner party, she told me, “but then I’ll go drink and enjoy the party.”
“Drink, as in, water?”
“I can also, strangely enough, tolerate vodka and bourbon.”
The idea that alcohol, one of the most well-documented toxic substances, is among the few things that Peterson’s body will tolerate may be illuminating. It implies that when it comes to dieting, the inherent properties of the substances ingested can be less important than the eater’s conceptualizations of them—as either tolerable or intolerable, good or bad. What’s actually therapeutic may be the act of elimination itself.
For centuries, ascetics have found enlightenment through acts of deprivation. As Levinovitz, who is an associate professor of religion at James Madison University, explained to me, the Daoist text the Zhuangzi describes “a spirit man” who lives in the mountains and rides dragons and subsists only on air and dew. “There’s an anti-authoritarian bent to pop-culture wisdom, and a part of that is dealing with food taboos, which are handed down by authorities,” Levinovitz said. “Those are government now, instead of religious. And because they are wrong so often—or, at least, apparently wrong—that’s a good place to go when carving out your own area of authority. If you just eat the ‘wrong’ foods and don’t die, that’s a ritual way to prove that you go against conventional wisdom.”
Peterson’s narrative fits a classic archetype of an outsider who beat the game and healed thyself despite the odds and against the recommendations of the establishment. Her story is her truth, and it can’t be explained; you have to believe. And unlike the many studies that have been done to understand the diets of the longest-lived, healthiest people in history, or the randomized trials that are used to determine which health interventions are safe and effective for whom, her story is clear and dramatic. It’s right there in her photos; it has a face and a name to prove that no odds are too long for one determined person to overcome.
The beneficial effects of a compelling personal narrative that helps explain and give order to the world can be absolutely physiologically real. It is well documented that the immune system (and, so, autoimmune diseases) are modulated by our lifestyles—from how much we sleep and move to how well we eat and how much we drink. Most importantly, the immune system is also modulated by stress, which tends to be a by-product of a perceived lack of control or order.
If strict dietary rules provide a sense of control and order, then Peterson’s approach is emblematic of the trend in elimination dieting taken to an extreme: Avoid basically everything. This verges into the realm of an eating disorder. The National Eating Disorder Association lists among common symptoms “refusal to eat certain foods, progressing to restrictions against whole categories of food.” In the early phases of disordered eating, as with bipolar disorder or alcoholism, a person may look and feel great. They may thrive for months or even years. But this fades. What’s more, the temporary relief from anxiety may mean that the source of the anxiety goes unsought and unaddressed.
I asked Peterson about the possibility that she may be enabling people with eating disorders. She said she would draw a line if a client were underweight or inducing vomiting. Otherwise, “it’s extremely disrespectful to people with health issues caused by food to be lumped into the same category as people with eating disorders. More of the same ‘blame the patient’ stuff that doctors and health professionals already do.”
The popularity of Peterson’s narrative is explained by more than its timeless tropes; it has also been amplified by the fact that her father has occasionally cast his spotlight onto her story. Jordan Peterson’s recent book, Twelve Rules for Life, includes the story of his daughter’s health trials. The elder Peterson, a psychologist at the University of Toronto, could at first seem an unlikely face for acceptance of personal, subjective truth, as he regularly professes the importance of acting as purely as possible according to rigorous analysis of data. He argued in a recent video that American universities are the home to “ideologues who claim that all truth is subjective, that all sex differences are socially constructed, and that Western imperialism is the sole source of all Third World problems.” In his book, he writes that academic institutions are teaching children to be “brainwashed victims,” and that “the rigorous critical theoretician is morally obligated to set them straight.”
It is on grounds of his interpretation of income data, for example, that he has spoken out against the idea of a wage gap between men and women being unfair, as it can be explained away by biological factors associated with certain personality traits that are more valuable in the capitalist marketplace. From arguments from social-science evidence, he has expressed uncertainty that lesbian couples can raise children without a male father figure. And it is academic evidence that leads him to write in his book that “the so-called patriarchy” is “an arbitrary cultural artifact.”
Yet in a July appearance on the comedian Joe Rogan’s podcast, Jordan Peterson explained how Mikhaila’s experience had convinced him to eliminate everything but meat and leafy greens from his diet, and that in the last two months he had gone full meat and eliminated vegetables. Since he changed his diet, his laundry list of maladies has disappeared, he told Rogan. His lifelong depression, anxiety, gastric reflux (and associated snoring), inability to wake up in the mornings, psoriasis, gingivitis, floaters in his right eye, numbness on the sides of his legs, problems with mood regulation—all of it is gone, and he attributes it to the diet.
“I’m certainly intellectually at my best,” he said. “I’m stronger, I can swim better, and my gum disease is gone. It’s like, what the hell?”
“Do you take any vitamins?” asked Rogan.
“No. No, I eat beef and salt and water. That’s it. And I never cheat. Ever. Not even a little bit.”
“No soda, no wine?”
“I drink club soda.”
“Well, that’s still water.”
“Well, when you’re down to that level, no, it’s not, Joe. There’s club soda, which is really bubbly. There’s Perrier, which is sort of bubbly. There’s flat water, and there’s hot water. Those distinctions start to become important.”
Peterson reiterated several times that he is not giving dietary advice, but said that many attendees of his recent speaking tour have come up to him and said the diet is working for them. The takeaway for listeners is that it worked for Peterson, and so it may work for them. Rogan also clarified that though he is also not an expert, he is fascinated by the fact that he hasn’t heard any negative stories about people who have started the all-meat diet.
“Well, I have a negative story,” said Peterson. “Both Mikhaila and I noticed that when we restricted our diet and then ate something we weren’t supposed to, the reaction was absolutely catastrophic.” He gives the example of having had some apple cider and subsequently being incapacitated for a month by what he believes was an inflammatory response.
“You were done for a month?”
“Oh yeah, it took me out for a month. It was awful ...”
“Apple cider? What was it doing to you?”
“It produced an overwhelming sense of impending doom. I seriously mean overwhelming. There’s no way I could’ve lived like that. But see, Mikhaila knew by then that it would probably only last a month.”
“A month? From fucking cider?”
“I didn’t sleep that month for 25 days. I didn’t sleep at all for 25 days.”
“What? How is that possible?”
“I’ll tell you how it’s possible: You lay in bed frozen in something approximating terror for eight hours. And then you get up.”
The longest recorded stretch of sleeplessness in a human is 11 days, witnessed by a Stanford research team.
While there is debate in the scientific community over just how much meat belongs in a human diet, it is impossible for all or even most humans to eat primarily meat. Beef production at the scale required to feed billions of humans even at current levels of consumption is environmentally unsustainable. It is not even healthy from a theoretical evolutionary viewpoint, the microbiome expert Gilbert explained to me. Carnivores need to eat meat or else they die; humans do not. “The carnivore gastrointestinal tract is completely different from the human gastrointestinal tract, which is made up of a system designed to consume large quantities of complex fibers.”
What the Petersons are selling is rather a sense of order and control. Science is about questions, and self-help is about answers. A recurring idea in Jordan Peterson’s book is that humans need rules—its subtitle is “an antidote to chaos”—even if only for the sake of rules. Peterson discovered this through his own suffering, as when he was searching the world for the best surgeon to give his young daughter a new hip. In explaining how he dealt with Mikhaila’s illness, he writes that “existence and limitation are inextricably linked.” He quotes Laozi:
Dietary rules offer limits, good or bad, that help people define the self. This is an attractive prospect, and anyone willing to decree such rules—dietary or otherwise—is bound to attract attention. Fox News recently declared Peterson “the left’s public enemy number one” in a segment where he discussed with Tucker Carlson “why the left wants to silence conservative thought.” Though to have lived through the last year is to have lived in a world where Peterson and his ideas have enjoyed near-constant amplification.
The allure of a strict code for eating—a way to divide the world into good foods and bad foods, angels and demons—may be especially strong at a time when order feels in short supply. Indeed there is at least some benefit to be had from any and all dietary advice, or rules for life, so long as a person believes in them, and so long as they provide a code that allows a person to feel good for having stuck with it and a cohort of like-minded adherents. The challenge is to find a code that accords as best as possible with scientific evidence about what is good and bad, and with what is best for the world.
* This article previously misidentified Peterson as the author of a guest post on her blog.
Here's an excellent video with both Dr. Saladino and Dr. Berry. I love the respect they both have for each other and how they have an intellectual debate. Saladino is big on gets regular blood work and is about as transparent as you can get. Of course the food plate advocates try to discredit him but when he offers his distractors a platform they usually back down. Saladino has a CAC , coronary artery calcium score of 0. That's really impressive.
He's obviously talking about a statistical analysis on why the left is immune to his grifting.
They could also be lying, fuckball grifters like these fad diet guys usually are. In which case, they lie about pretty much everything and work together.
Who are the "food plate advocates"?
Who would be threatened enough by these fuckwads to scheme against them?.... If they're telling their sheeple to go out and buy steak 3x a day, isn't METRO dancing. Instead of paying $15.00 per day for groceries, beef-eaters are paying 4x as much. They're a money-shedding bonanza of stupid that the grocery chains can cash in on.
The reason that reputable doctors are pissed at them is that those said sheeple are going to die of colorectal cancer at the age of 28 years old from gobbling all that red meat and packing it into their guts.
IMHO, there's really no set answers as far as diets go. If the carnivore diet was so bad, then both JP and MP would be dead by now.
With that being said, you have a Doc, who is at the opposite end of the spectrum. Dr. John McDougall, who wrote a book called the starch solution. He's a vegan doctor. His diet is as cheap, as the carnivore diet is expensive. Yet big dairy, and big pharma, hate DR. McDougall.
Dr. McDougall's Health & Medical Center | Dr. McDougall
Use the McDougall Program to transform your health through a healing diet and lifestyle and regain your health in under 2 weeks. Book a consultation today!
www.drmcdougall.com
That is pretty much it. A balanced diet with little processed food and eating up to a maintenace or slightly under to lose weight is the key. They will be debunked just like the Liver King and wasn't it Salidino that backed Liver King as being natural?? Anyone with half a brain knew Liver King didn't look like he did eating raw liver and being on a carnivore diet.
You notice how DR. Berry has 2.36 Million you tube subscribers. DR. McDougall has only about 93K you tube subscribers.
Humans have been eating carnivore since their emergence on this planet. Usually seasonally however. But still for extended periods of time with very little health detriments. The inuit are a good example of a people that in the past ate very little fruit or vegetables year round. Vilhjálmur Stefánsson wrote a book about the time he spent with them in the 1930's I believe.
For persons with food intolerances it's a complete elimination diet. If it helps them then they can slowly start adding back other foods to see how they react.That's what Mikhaila Peterson espouses. Unfortunately for her she reacts negatively when she tries to reintroduce other foods.
Dr. Saladino said he took Brian Johnson at his word. The liver king gimmick was pretty obvious to anyone who's been down that path or around it but there are those that want to believe. It's a shame because Johnson's nine tenets of ancestral living are actually really sound but......Well you know the rest.
Majority of the Eskimo diet is marine animals as opposed to red meat that is pitched in the carnivor diet. Our ancestors were gathers and they didn't succeed in eating meat everyday or live past the age of 30 maybe 40. I am far from a vegetarian because I too love my steak but as with anything, moderation is the key is my belief.
Thanks. I learn something new everyday. I never heard of Brian Johnson, before tonight.
Okay the 30 and maybe 40 statement is interesting. I've read that infant deaths were extremely high. Which completely skews the narrative. Then you have the women who died in child berth to consider as well. Agriculture came in around 10k years ago. We were hunters and gathers for what 200,000 years. Primarily we lived off animal sources. I've also learned that if early humans made it past the first few years of life and didn't get killed by a fellow human they lived longer than you would think.
A Marine diet is quite high in saturated fat. Current dogma would dictate that would be detrimental to one's health. Yet the inuit of the past thrived on it.
From Wikipedia about Vilhjalmur Stefansson
Stefansson is also a figure of considerable interest in dietary circles, especially those with an interest in a very low-carbohydrate diet. Stefansson documented the fact that the Inuit diet was then consisted about 90% meat and fish. Inuit would often go six to nine months a year eating nothing but fatty meat and fresh fish, which might currently be perceived as a 'zero carb' / no-carbohydrate diet. (The diet technically contains a very low amount of carbohydates, as the fresh fish that the Inuit ate would have had a small amount of glycogen.) Stefansson found that he and his fellow explorers of European, Black, and South Sea Islands descent were also “perfectly healthy” on such a diet.
Some years after his first experience with the Inuit (known as Eskimos in Stefansson's time), Stefansson returned to the Arctic with a colleague, Dr. Karsten Anderson, to carry out research for the American Museum of Natural History. They were supplied with every necessity, including a year's supply of 'civilised' food. They declined, electing instead to live off the land. In the end, the one-year project stretched to four years, during which time the two men ate only the meat they could kill and the fish they could catch in the Canadian Arctic. Neither of the two men suffered any adverse after-effects from their four-year experiment. Stefansson deduced, as had William Banting, that the body could function, remain healthy, vigorous, and slender if a diet in which as much food was eaten as the body required, with only carbohydrates restricted and the total number of calories ignored.[20]
While there was considerable skepticism when Stefansson reported his findings about the viability of an exclusively meat diet, his claims have been borne out in later studies and analyses.[21] In multiple studies, it was shown that the Inuit diet was a unique ketogenic diet. While the Inuit diet derived a percentage of its calories from the glycogen found in the raw meats, the native Inuit ate a diet of primarily stewed (boiled) fresh fish and fatty meats such as caribou, whale, or seal, while occasionally eating raw fish.[22][23][24]
To combat erroneous conventional beliefs about diet, Stefansson and his fellow explorer Karsten Anderson agreed to undertake an official study to demonstrate that they could eat a 100% meat diet in a closely observed laboratory setting for the first several weeks. For the rest of an entire year, paid observers followed them to ensure dietary compliance. The book The Unseen Power: Public Relations states that Pendelton Dudley, once considered the "dean of public relations", convinced the American Meat Institute to fund this study.[25] The results were published.
Anderson had developed glycosuria during this time, which is normally associated with untreated diabetes. But unlike the pathology of diabetes, in this particular study, glycosuria was present in Anderson for four days and coincided only with the administration of a 100 gm of glucose for a tolerance test, and with the first three days of his pneumonia, where he received fluids and a diet rich in carbohydrate. Once that situation resolved, the glucosuria disappeared.[26]
At the researchers' request, Stefansson was asked to eat lean meat only for a time. Stefansson noted that in the Arctic, very lean meat sometimes produced "digestive disturbances". His prior experience was that lean meat would lead to illness after the second or third fatless week. Stefansson developed nausea and diarrhea on the third day at Bellevue. Stefansson attributes the fast onset of illness due to the lean meat that he was served versus the fattier caribou meat he consumed previously.[27] After eating fatty meat, he fully recovered in two days. However, the initial disturbance was followed by "a period of persistent constipation lasting 10 days".[28]
There were no deficiency problems while eating only the kind of fatty meat they requested. The two men remained healthy; their bowels remained normal, except that their stools were smaller and did not smell. Stefansson's gingivitis disappeared by the end of the experiment although there was an increase in the deposit of tartar on his teeth. During this experiment his intake had varied between 2,000 and 3,100 calories per day and he derived an average of almost 80% of his energy from animal fat and almost 20% from animal protein.[20] Daily intake varied from 100-140 grams of protein, 200-300 grams of fat, and 7-12 grams of carbohydrates.
Very interesting stuff.
Most people haven't. I picked up on him about a year ago.
Derek from More Plates More Dates exposed him. Not sure why though. Although he got a lot of subs as a result.
Podcasters are a cut throat crew I guess.
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Start eating all of your meat raw, like this guy does, which would have been part of the human diet before humans tamed fire.
Eyes, heart, kidneys, brain, testicles. You name it. This guy eats all of it raw.
He lets his dog eat the bones though.
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