In the 21st century, anti-Zionism means anti-Semitism

[basketcase]

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I could only wish that Israel/Palestine could adopt equal rights and allow all to vote the way Canada does.

And which Palestinian leaders endorse that view? I'm not aware of anyone with any power.
What percent of Palestinians prefer an egalitarian one state peace? According to Palestinian polling, 6%.

Yet despite Palestinians overwhelmingly rejecting the idea, you don't have a critical word for them and you don't care that you want to force Palestinians (and Israelis) into something they hate - how democratic of you. Instead you continue to justify terrorism.

 

[Frankfooter]

A person hired by a UN rights groups controlled by massive human rights abusers may have said so but even you've admitted that Israel is generally very precise in it's strikes.

At the same time, you keep referring to indiscriminate rocket fire from Gaza as legitimate self defense. More of that racist double standard of yours.

Yes, Israel is very precise with their strikes. When they hit civilians its because they aimed at civilians.
As opposed to Palestinian rockets, which lack explosives and accurate aim.

That means when Palestinians fire rockets and it hits civilians its a war crime of using indiscriminate fire.
And when Israel hits civilians its state terrorism because they used accurate weapons that were aimed at civilians.

 

[Frankfooter]

When painting it or protesting specifically because of the religion of the location owner, it sure as shit is, at least according to Canada.

Again, its an antisemitic trope to say that 'Free Palestine' is an attack on the Jewish people.

Poll finds a quarter of US Jews think Israel is ‘apartheid state’

Also, 22% of respondents believe 'Israel is committing genocide'; 67% say denying Jewish state's right to exist is antisemitic

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Frankfooter]

And which Palestinian leaders endorse that view? I'm not aware of anyone with any power.
What percent of Palestinians prefer an egalitarian one state peace? According to Palestinian polling, 6%.

28% support the two state solution and 22% support the one state solution.
After the recent attacks on Gaza, the ongoing colonization and apartheid along with Hamas' success against Israel more Palestinians now support armed resistance to the illegal occupation.

Which means you've lost the window for the two state solution and even the one state solution, which is the only peaceful option possible, is becoming less likely.
Congrats.

Public Opinion Poll No (84) | PCPSR

www.pcpsr.org

 

[basketcase]

Yes, Israel is very precise with their strikes. When they hit civilians its because they aimed at civilians.
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Bullshit. If this was the case how come Hamas media openly admits the terrorist targets of the strike being hit? Of course some strikes are on faulty intelligence or mis-targeted but that does not change the reality.

Of course you keep calling the indiscriminate fire from gaza self defence and only time you come close to condemnation is to blame Israel when a Gaza rocket kills Palestinians.

 

[basketcase]

Again, its an antisemitic trope to say that 'Free Palestine' is an attack on the Jewish people.
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It is antisemitic to blame Jews for your dislike of Israel and to protest random Jews because of it. At least that's what this country says. Of course you check off numerous points on Canada's definition of anti-semitism so at least you're consistent on one thing.

Why are you afraid to answer my question. Is it acceptable to protest outside Muslim owned businesses to promote women's rights in Iran or Saudi Arabia?

 

[basketcase]

... 22% support the one state solution.
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So you admit the vast majority of Palestinians hate it yet still want them to follow your idea. And not only are there no Palestinian leaders promoting the idea, the vast majority only promote the idea of a Palestinian state replacing Israel and removing the 'zionists'.

If you were honest in your desire for equal rights, you wouldn't be afraid of criticizing the major stumbling blocks to achieving your stated goal. Instead you infantilize the Palestinians by blaming Israel for every time a Palestinian does something negative.


And on the concept of things that should be condemned, how come you never have a word to say about this regular question?

 

[canada-man]

Who are the Palestinians? An Arab Invention.

Zuheir Mohsen (1936 – 25 July 1979) was a Palestinian leader of the Syria-controlled as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) between 1971 and 1979.

Quotes
The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.


“Wij zijn alleen Palestijn om politieke reden,” James Dorsey, Trouw, 31 March 1977.

 

[Frankfooter]

It is antisemitic to blame Jews for your dislike of Israel and to protest random Jews because of it

I don't. I blame supremacist right wingers like you and Israeli right wing politicians. And IIRC, you've self identified on this board as Irish?
There are so many Jewish groups that are against apartheid and the occupation, with 25% of US Jews saying Israel is apartheid.

Its an antisemitic trope when you say 'Free Palestine' is racist, since all that is doing is calling for the end of an illegal occupation.

 

[Frankfooter]

So you admit the vast majority of Palestinians hate it yet still want them to follow your idea. And not only are there no Palestinian leaders promoting the idea, the vast majority only promote the idea of a Palestinian state replacing Israel and removing the 'zionists'.

If you were honest in your desire for equal rights, you wouldn't be afraid of criticizing the major stumbling blocks to achieving your stated goal. Instead you infantilize the Palestinians by blaming Israel for every time a Palestinian does something negative.


And on the concept of things that should be condemned, how come you never have a word to say about this regular question?
View attachment 166945

There are other polls that show support is now higher for the one state solution than the two state solution.

Palestinian support for one-state solution highest in years

Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research shows 33% of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip support one state for both nations after 'losing trust in the possibility of the two-state solution'

www.ynetnews.com

Support for armed resistance against the illegal occupation has been growing as there is zero chance of the two state, zero peace talks and attacks against BDS and attempts to use international law.
Israel taught Palestinians that Hamas' response against last year's attack on Sheikh Jarrah raised global awareness and started mass protests against Israel.
The violent policies you support are the cause of this change in attitude.

I still support non-violence and hope that the ICC and rule of law can lead to a peaceful one state solution.
But since Israeli, like you, seem to prefer bombing Palestinians you are correct, its not likely.

 

[canada-man]

“We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.” (First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations, February 1919)



The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said,

“Palestine was part of the Province of Syria,” and that, “politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity.”

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine:

“There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.”
“Palestine and Transjordan are one.”

Syrian President Hafez Assad addressing the Palestinian leader, the Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO), President of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) and “Father of the Palestinian People” Yasser Arafat, explained to him:

“You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the

Moreover, Arafat himself made a definitive and unequivocal statement along the same lines as late as 1993, when he declared that,

“The question of borders doesn’t interest us… From the Arab standpoint, we mustn’t talk about borders. Palestine is nothing but a drop in an enormous ocean. Our nation is the Arabic nation that stretches from the Atlantic Ocean to the Red Sea and beyond it…The P.L.O. is fighting Israel in the name of Pan-Arabism. What you call “Jordan” is nothing more than Palestine.”

Not long ago, Azmi Bishara (the ex-Knesset member exiled from Israel for passing sensitive information to Hezbollah during the Second Lebanon War) who is anything except Israel’s friend said the same: there is no Palestinian people.

“The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan.”

– King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981

“Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate,”

Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly was quoted as saying on February 2, 1970.

Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared in 1980,

“The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture.”

 

[Frankfooter]

“We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.” (First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations, February 1919)

Who cares?

Just fix the problem that exists now.
End apartheid.
End the occupation or give Palestinians equal rights.

 

[basketcase]

I don't. ...

So why do you keep justifying protests that target non-Israeli jews?

At least you are smart enough to realize how transparent your double standard is by avoiding this question while pretending everyone else is the racist.
Is it acceptable to protest outside Muslim owned businesses in Canada to promote women's rights in Iran or Saudi Arabia?

 

[basketcase]

There are other polls that show support is now higher for the one state solution than the two state solution.
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Except they don't. The article refers to the same polling as we've been discussing.

Still waiting for you to explain respecting rights of Palestinians means ignoring what they want.

Support for armed resistance against the illegal occupation has been growing

Which you refuse to criticize while pretending to be pro peace. More significantly, the poll question explicitly says more that half of surveyed Palestinians support definition terrorism. It explicitly states support for ARMED ATTACKS AGAINST ISRAELI CIVLIANS INSIDER ISRAEL.

There's another scary question in the poll as well.


More than half of polled Palestinians support the attacks on random Jews and actually think those attacks are helping the Palestinian people.

But of course you would never deign condemn people who explicitly support attacks on civilians if the targets are Israeli Jews while at the same time claiming it is racist to mention that Canada considers Hamas, PIJ, and PFLP to be terrorist groups.


p.s. How about people supporting peace and human rights examine the results of that polling. 69% of polled Palestinians reject a Two State peace and 73% reject a One State peace. That suggests that the majority of Palestinians polled are opposed to any kind of peace with Israeli jews.

 

[basketcase]

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I still support non-violence...

Yet refuse to criticize acts of violence from Palestinians, condemn their leaders who promote violence, or even frown at widespread support for violence from Palestinians.

 

[Frankfooter]

So why do you keep justifying protests that target non-Israeli jews?

How does painting 'Free Palestine' target non-Israeli Jews?
That's an anti-semitic trope to say its an attack on the Jewish people.
Its a comment about apartheid and an illegal occupation by a state government.

 

[Frankfooter]

p.s. How about people supporting peace and human rights examine the results of that polling. 69% of polled Palestinians reject a Two State peace and 73% reject a One State peace. That suggests that the majority of Palestinians polled are opposed to any kind of peace with Israeli jews.

The 2 state solution is dead.
And after 50 years of continuing colonization, occupation and apartheid its not surprising that Palestinian's don't trust Israeli Jews and the Israeli government.

Israel taught Palestinians that resistance to the illegal occupation is the most likely path to succeed.
There have been no peace talks for 8 years, Israel is blocking UN, ICC and BDS actions.
After Sheikh Jarrah last year, violent resistance to ongoing land theft/colonization created global protests.
Israel is teaching Palestinians that only violent resistance to the occupation and apartheid rule does anything.
If you want to stop the resistance, end the occupation and apartheid.

 

[Frankfooter]

Yet refuse to criticize acts of violence from Palestinians, condemn their leaders who promote violence, or even frown at widespread support for violence from Palestinians.

I also don't criticize Ukrainian violence against the Russian occupation and attempts at colonization either.
Violent resistance to an illegal occupation is allowed.

My preference is still peaceful transition to a one state solution by ending apartheid and giving all who live under Israeli rule equal rights and the vote.
South Africa taught us that's the best way to end apartheid.

You offer no solutions, you just seem to cheer for more settler colonization, land theft and brutal apartheid rule.

 

[basketcase]

How does painting 'Free Palestine' target non-Israeli Jews?
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Is it acceptable to protest outside Muslim owned businesses in Canada to promote women's rights in Iran or Saudi Arabia?

 

[basketcase]

The 2 state solution is dead.
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Yes, peace options are difficult when much of the Palestinian leadership rejects the idea of peace with Jews remaining in the region and have convinced the Palestinian population that both a One State and Two State peace should be rejected.

So why (other than your racist double standard) are you incapable of criticizing those significant factions in Palestinian leadership that refuse any kind of peace?