Rent Control

barnacler

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May 13, 2013
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Rent control has been a disaster everywhere. Why do people think there are no consequences in messing with the free market? And why so they propose ideas like rent control that are failures everywhere they are implemented?

If I was trying to build a brick wall, and somebody told me to use a method that ALWAYS CAUSED THE WALL TO FALL DOWN, even though it seems really easy, why would anyone still recommend it?

You force lower rents then would otherwise be the case, you get reduced investment in that sector, therefore fewer houses, prices go higher.

Probably the best summation of the well-established case against rent control:

.

"Short of aerial saturation bombing, rent control might be one of the most effective means of destroying a city".
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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Wasn't communism suppose to fix inequities? Actually, it did. Everybody became poor and equal.

Old Irish proverb: "Socialism/communism is the equal sharing of misery, capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth."
 
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oil&gas

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Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
In Singapore a huge percentage of the population own their own home, one of the highest in the world. The purpose of policy in Singapore is ownership, not rental.
I could be wrong but I thought ownership was an option
introduced at a later time. This is the case in HK. Until the
end of 1970s public housing estate were all for rent.
 

Darts

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Both Singapore and Hong Kong have a land area about the size of Gaza or even smaller. Both Singapore and Hong Kong rose from the ashes of WW II. Amazing people who rebuilt their cities and all because of unfettered capitalism.
 

Jenesis

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Explain how it’s I efficient please?

I was recently talking to a landlord that told me he tries to squeeze every available dime out of tenants. Seems it’s not enough they pay the mortgage, he expects them to pay for his lifestyle too.
In all honesty, I can’t really blame a landlord for trying to get everything they can. It is a business after all. The problem becomes when the housing market is so out of control that people are sacrificing food just to put a roof over their heads and the landlord is sipping drinks on a beach laughing all the way to the bank. A balance is needed somewhere.
 
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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What happens when food, water and housing become inaccessible except for the wealthy…. That’s when cities burn. And that is the end flaw in Capitalism the way it’s played today. It’s like a game of Monopoly, eventually most people lose.
If you want stuff to be inaccessible to all but the wealthy, the best way to do that in price controls like rent controls.
Every time prices are restricted to any sort of serious degree, shortages develop. As it must.
If prices are frothy, look at other housing policy to figure out why. Unless you think someone working at McDs should be able to afford a detached 4K square foot home in the downtown core.
It's pretty much an iron law and it's fully expected.
Only with rent control because apartments are not a consumable and last a long time, it takes time for people to stop building apartments and for landlords to stop giving a shit about maintaining it.
 
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poker

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Wow...
Obviously, many people feel that they are experts on something when they have not read an introductory 101 text...
Do yourself a favor, grab any economics 101 books, and read, please.

If you seriously would like to understand how price control is inefficient read the stuff in the link below:


Actually, it should be mandatory to have any aspiring politician, whether municipal, provincial, or federal attend an economics class and pass an exam before considering his name on the ballot.
You get a driver's license to drive.
You should understand economics before thinking of policies that affect your constituents.

Making wild accusations that people don’t understand, or have not taken an economics class…. Is, well, kind of arrogant. Being cocky does not make you right.

Regulation may be a dirty for you and Dartsie, but it’s actually a good thing. Once upon a time Banks used customer deposit money (ie… their savings) and Gamble in the stock market with it. If the Bank won they kept all the profits, and if they lost, the bank closed, and the customers were shit out of luck. Then banks became regulated. The Capital Investment side got separated from every day consumer banking.
 
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kinjpatel18

Member
May 20, 2018
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If the rent control is tied to certain percentage than that should at least increased to cover the increasing costs

Maintenance fees, property taxes, real inflation have all increased more than 3% percent
 

Darts

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People who think rent control is fantastic, never owned a rental property. Tenants from hell do exist and they are taught by lefty lawyers on how to game the system. Ever tried to evict a truant tenant?

Actually, rent control is fantastic ----------- for tenants.
 
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Jenesis

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People who think rent control is fantastic, never owned a rental property. Tenants from hell do exist and they are taught by lefty lawyers on how to game the system. Ever tried to evict a truant tenant?

Actually, rent control is fantastic ----------- for tenants.
Ok but that is not all tenants. Not even close.
 
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Varoufakis

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Jul 11, 2015
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Making wild accusations that people don’t understand, or have not taken an economics class…. Is, well, kind of arrogant. Being cocky does make you right.

Regulation may be a dirty for you and Dartsie, but it’s actually a good thing. Once upon a time Banks used to customer deposit money (ie… their savings) and Gamble in the stock market with it. If the Bank won they kept all the profits, and if they lost, the bank closed, and the customers were shit out of luck. Then banks became regulated. The Capital Investment side got separated from every day consumer banking.
Not cocky nor arrogant.
When someone tells me that price control is not inefficient it is clear to me that he has not read a basic text of economics. As simple as that.
 

Varoufakis

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I'm sorry, I missed the "experts only" tag in the thread's headline. Everything they have in those books is theoretical and usually limited in its application by a set of constraints, you should know this since you read one of those econ 101 textbooks. What we have happening in this country is real and it is a result of precisely those types of policies they talk about in those books. Why? Because they forgot that it's not just about supply/demand and that there need to be constraints on the market for it to function properly (theory meets reality). In other words you can't open up residential housing to people who don't even live here and view it as a speculative asset, you can't expect corporations to consider social policies your gov. is implementing while they scoop up all single family dwellings they can because it makes their quarterly reports look good, you can't expect people to remain calm when that's happening and not wipe out their HELOCs overleveraging themselves as they try to buy whatever they can. Remove foreign and corporate investment into residential housing (not just for two years but permanently) and you'll have a well functioning supply/demand driven market and there will be no need for rent control.
Well, it seems that you have the public policy for fixing the problem (last sentence). Vote for the right knowledgeable people to implement it. Price control is a band-aid but populist solution that does not solve the problem of housing. Makes it worse, precisely because it's not efficient.
 

Varoufakis

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Jul 11, 2015
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This board is pretty bougie. The elitist types will justify anything to keep prices high.
It is not about keeping the prices. It is about policy.
We just had provincial elections. Is it the elitist types who handed the majority to an ignorant such as Doug Ford? Builds highways to enrich friends instead of affordable housing that will boost the supply.

What is the position of each party in ontario on the issue of housing? Lets see.
 

bazokajoe

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Nov 6, 2010
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Being a landlord is a business not a charity.
No I'm not a landlord. I don't want the hassle. Tenant's, some not all, can be disrespectful assholes.
The house behind me used to be a rental. I was so glad the landlord decided to say fuck it and sold it to someone who wants to take care of it and raise a family.
 
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Darts

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Being a landlord is a business not a charity.
No I'm not a landlord. I don't want the hassle. Tenant's, some not all, can be disrespectful assholes.
The house behind me used to be a rental. I was so glad the landlord decided to say fuck it and sold it to someone who wants to take care of it and raise a family.
Totally agree. No disrespect but a tenant is someone who can't or won't be an owner.

Don't believe that BS that home ownership is "out of reach". I've seen many of the following examples.

Father and mother arrive in Canada penniless. They both work hard. Their children study hard. The grandparents come over and look after the the kids when they were small. They pool their money. Forego that trip to Hawaii several times. Buy a house in Brampton and live 10 person in that house.

BTW: POC immigrants tend to be hard working conservatives and that is why Brampton and Mississauga are all blue.
 
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poker

Everyone's hero's, tell everyone's lies.
Jun 1, 2006
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People who think rent control is fantastic, never owned a rental property. Tenants from hell do exist and they are taught by lefty lawyers on how to game the system. Ever tried to evict a truant tenant?

Actually, rent control is fantastic ----------- for tenants.
In all honesty, I can’t really blame a landlord for trying to get everything they can. It is a business after all. The problem becomes when the housing market is so out of control that people are sacrificing food just to put a roof over their heads and the landlord is sipping drinks on a beach laughing all the way to the bank. A balance is needed somewhere.

I agree with you there. Tenants should be held more accountable for damages.
Totally agree. No disrespect but a tenant is someone who can't or won't be an owner.

Don't believe that BS that home ownership is "out of reach". I've seen many of the following examples.

Father and mother arrive in Canada penniless. They both work hard. Their children study hard. The grandparents come over and look after the the kids when they were small. They pool their money. Forego that trip to Hawaii several times. Buy a house in Brampton and live 10 person in that house.

BTW: POC immigrants tend to be hard working conservatives and that is why Brampton and Mississauga are all blue.
Bullshit.

Tired of hearing people pretend they understand the economics. People talk Bout supply and demand like it's still 1980.

The government now fucks with demand, and limits supply. That is conveniently ignored by all the board free market economists.

It used to be the people in any give town or city were "the market". If Niagara had 50,000 people... and needed 25,000 homes and apartments to accommodate, then great, that was the market we had. Sometimes hot... sometimes cold. Everyone worked from the same economy, and there were higher end, and lower end places to live. The market truly decided what you could do. I am totally cool with that. That is the definition of a free market and how it should work.

Then globalization. World "leaders" were basically bribed by big business to allow the good paying jobs to go off shore... and when economies showed the stress of slower growth (go figure), Canada used (and still uses) immigration to keep growth going. That threw off the balance in supply and demand in housing. We also allowed big money foreign buyers in to compete. That was bullshit too, as it is un-natural demand from out of market.

Small town Sellers today not only have local buyers in the market, they also have big city Toronto money competing, and foreign money looking for investment the housing markets. Locals, who live and work these communities get squeezed out of the buying process. We can pretend the ban on foreign investment is legit... but there are ways around it.

The red tape in getting more places built is a massive barrier to the supply side. All 3 levels of government officials need bribes, I mean permit approvals. The government literally controls the supply.

So... the government has created a system where outside forces are driving up property values. It's done on purpose. The government benefits from the higher values. So do the banks. So do the Realtors and brokers. Some people actually call that a free market. Its fucking delusional is what it is.

The system is rigged, and people will sit here tell you with a straight face "it's supply and demand", without ever acknowledging the manipulation in the supply and demand.

Yes, people who bought 20 or 30 years ago are happy their piece of shit homes are worth something today. That is the only reason they turn a blind eye to the complete mismanagement of the system. And there are a lot boomers in that position. (Demographics... young population vs the elder population in numbers)

I have not even touched on the corruption and manipulation from the Real Estate sector and its behavior for higher commissions at the public's expense. Remember, every dollar a realtor makes is borrowed money from a bank a home has to pay back with interest. Your realtor is not your friend. You are their mark.
 
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Darts

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poker

Everyone's hero's, tell everyone's lies.
Jun 1, 2006
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Niagara
Rent control has been a disaster everywhere. Why do people think there are no consequences in messing with the free market? And why so they propose ideas like rent control that are failures everywhere they are implemented?

If I was trying to build a brick wall, and somebody told me to use a method that ALWAYS CAUSED THE WALL TO FALL DOWN, even though it seems really easy, why would anyone still recommend it?

You force lower rents then would otherwise be the case, you get reduced investment in that sector, therefore fewer houses, prices go higher.

Probably the best summation of the well-established case against rent control:

.

"Short of aerial saturation bombing, rent control might be one of the most effective means of destroying a city".

Define this free market…. The gov’t messes with the supply. The gov’t messes with demand. The industry itself is corrupt.

What you are talking about is opportunists taking advantage of the little guy with impunity.
 
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