"X" On The Passport

[rhuarc29]

Since some international agreements that relates to passports don't allow someone to change their sex designation, a man who now looks like a woman (or had surgery and is now a woman) would have a physical appearance that contradicts their stated sex so the X would be a heads up to customs as to why.

And again, this is only the business of customs and the person involved and only that person will have to deal with difficulties in other countries. Other than not liking change or being afraid of gays, why the hell would anyone with a traditional gender care?

What better way than an 'X' would you suggest, to inform people not to expect the holder's appearance to identify them as obviously male or or obviously female?

Let me clarify: I'd be fine with using "X" if it was a representation of a physical manifestation of sex. For instance, if you are transitioning. Though they'd need to educate people on the meaning of "X".
What I'm not okay with is using "X" because a person feels as though they are non-binary. What's important on a passport isn't what you feel, but the physical manifestation of what you are, for the purposes of identification.

 

[oldjones]

Let me clarify: I'd be fine with using "X" if it was a representation of a physical manifestation of sex. For instance, if you are transitioning. Though they'd need to educate people on the meaning of "X".
What I'm not okay with is using "X" because a person feels as though they are non-binary. What's important on a passport isn't what you feel, but the physical manifestation of what you are, for the purposes of identification.

The physical manifestation of the M or F on a passport is a dick or a pussy. As identifiers, those "physical manifestations" of yours are only exposed and checked, well after the the border control agents have decided this person is a problem and detained them. By the time the agents are pulling down pants or lifting skirts, their ID issues have gone well past matching an M or an F to the fashion choices of their person of interest.

For no muss, no fuss practical purposes of matching a person with the paperwork they present, my question still stands; What better way than an 'X' would you suggest, to inform people not to expect the holder's appearance to identify them as obviously male or or obviously female?

 

[rhuarc29]

The physical manifestation of the M or F on a passport is a dick or a pussy. As identifiers, those "physical manifestations" of yours are only exposed and checked, well after the the border control agents have decided this person is a problem and detained them. By the time the agents are pulling down pants or lifting skirts, their ID issues have gone well past matching an M or an F to the fashion choices of their person of interest.

There are other physical manifestations of gender than the genitals.

For no muss, no fuss practical purposes of matching a person with the paperwork they present, my question still stands; What better way than an 'X' would you suggest, to inform people not to expect the holder's appearance to identify them as obviously male or or obviously female?

What dictates when it is appropriate to use "X" as your gender? For example, if you were born with a penis, look like a man, but feel like a woman, would it be appropriate to mark down "X" in your opinion? Or, if you were born with a vagina, look like a woman, but don't identify as either gender, is it appropriate to use "X" then?

 

[taratender]

There are other physical manifestations of gender than the genitals.



What dictates when it is appropriate to use "X" as your gender? For example, if you were born with a penis, look like a man, but feel like a woman, would it be appropriate to mark down "X" in your opinion? Or, if you were born with a vagina, look like a woman, but don't identify as either gender, is it appropriate to use "X" then?

There are absolutely other physical markers of gender! But also yall I feel you are losing sight of the fact that passports have YOUR PHOTO ON THEM! Like, that's all you need to match the person. It's a lot more useful than a description of vague characteristics such as what's in your pants, what colour your eyes are, how much you weigh. They all have a picture!

And the idea of having an X is not about marking being non binary or in transition--its about being like hey it doesn't matter whats in my pants. I'm this person in the photo and you don't need to know whats in my pants! Like why do they need to know that? They do not.

 

[rhuarc29]

And the idea of having an X is not about marking being non binary or in transition--its about being like hey it doesn't matter whats in my pants. I'm this person in the photo and you don't need to know whats in my pants! Like why do they need to know that? They do not.

Which is a fair argument to make. But like I said, why have gender on there at all, then?

 

[basketcase]

Which is a fair argument to make. But like I said, why have gender on there at all, then?

Because international agreements require sex to be listed.

 

[oldjones]

There are other physical manifestations of gender than the genitals.



What dictates when it is appropriate to use "X" as your gender? For example, if you were born with a penis, look like a man, but feel like a woman, would it be appropriate to mark down "X" in your opinion? Or, if you were born with a vagina, look like a woman, but don't identify as either gender, is it appropriate to use "X" then?

You'd have to ask the Passport Office about those specifics.

You asked "How does "X" accurately reflect a person's physical appearance?" and I responded to that. As I said before, if identifying someone at a border crossing has gotten down to inspecting their genitals, we're way beyond M, F or X on the passport. If you still can't imagine what an X-person walking up to the 'Papers please' Window might look like, you really should try to get out more.

 

[rhuarc29]

You'd have to ask the Passport Office about those specifics.

You asked "How does "X" accurately reflect a person's physical appearance?" and I responded to that. As I said before, if identifying someone at a border crossing has gotten down to inspecting their genitals, we're way beyond M, F or X on the passport. If you still can't imagine what an X-person walking up to the 'Papers please' Window might look like, you really should try to get out more.

You responded, but didn't satisfactorily answer, which is why I was asking for clarification. And like I said, genitals aren't the only sign of gender.

 

[TeeJay]

You responded, but didn't satisfactorily answer, which is why I was asking for clarification. And like I said, genitals aren't the only sign of gender.

What? Um yeah they are
You are born with or without a cock
That is your gender

Psychologically people can have issues and relate to other genders but that's a thought process not an actual gender

 

[Darts]

Let's add some fuel to the fire. Why not. We're all adults and surely can discuss this issue intelligently and free of emotion and outrage.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...nsgender-identity-first-statement/1408695001/

 

[basketcase]

What? Um yeah they are
You are born with or without a cock
That is your gender

Psychologically people can have issues and relate to other genders but that's a thought process not an actual gender

Actually biological sex is defined by your chromosomal make up and even then there are people who don't fit purely into XX/XY. From a biological perspective, intersex is a thing as there are people born with both male and female primary sex characteristics. They are a small number but they do represent something other than M/F.

Gender on the other hand is defined significantly on social interactions.

 

[basketcase]

Let's add some fuel to the fire. Why not. We're all adults and surely can discuss this issue intelligently and free of emotion and outrage.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...nsgender-identity-first-statement/1408695001/

Shows churches are still trailing well behind society. How long ago was it that the Church rescinded Galileo's excommunication?

 

[Darts]

Shows churches are still trailing well behind society.

Same with other religions (except for some Christian denominations)?

 

[TeeJay]

Actually biological sex is defined by your chromosomal make up and even then there are people who don't fit purely into XX/XY. From a biological perspective, intersex is a thing as there are people born with both male and female primary sex characteristics. They are a small number but they do represent something other than M/F.

Gender on the other hand is defined significantly on social interactions.

Touche; there are some people who are dual chromo
But they are ultra rare and most of these X passports are lifestyle or political choices

 

[oldjones]

You responded, but didn't satisfactorily answer, which is why I was asking for clarification. And like I said, genitals aren't the only sign of gender.

If those other unnamed signs of yours are apparent, why would anyone be bothering about a M, F, or X on the document? Unless it didn't reflect the person they were seeing. Which is what I said before.

As for specifics of precisely who must use precisely which designation, and who is prohibited from which, the actual passport offices and border authorities of the countries relevant to your travel plans are your only hope of such details.

 

[basketcase]

Same with other religions..

No argument there.

 

[whiteshaft]

Totally agree. The lefties keep coming up with this meaningless alphabet soup of labels. The list is longer than my arm. Here is just a small sample.
Racist (their favorite)
Bigot (also their favorite)
Islamophobic (another favorite)
Homophobic (a big favorite)
and so on and so on.

I like how you analyzed it Darts!:yo:

 

[oldjones]

Touche; there are some people who are dual chromo
But they are ultra rare and most of these X passports are lifestyle or political choices

Tell ya what, let's have three options: V or P for the obvious characteristics, and X for the unknown.

The old M and F often don't tell us anything useful anyway, especially not these days.

 

[Darts]

Now there is a movement to make washrooms "gender neutral" with stalls that have floor to ceiling walls and locks. A friend who works in hotel management told me these stalls will be great for homeless people to engage in masturbation and for couples to engage in oral sex and maybe even vaginal or anal sex. Of course, some people will say this is great news.

 

[TeeJay]

Tell ya what, let's have three options: V or P for the obvious characteristics, and X for the unknown.

The old M and F often don't tell us anything useful anyway, especially not these days.

I actually am willing to concede for the dual chromo
They really are genetically different

But they are still in the super minority, no stats but for every 1 true dual there must be 100 false out there in Toronto for pride as we speak
Physical and Psychological issues are not interchangeable