Tim Hortons Locations Owned By Founders' Kids Reduce Employee Benefits/Breaks
- Thread starter Charlemagne
- Start date
Thanks for the info.For the record. Apparently the franchisee did request to raise prices and lower other costs to account for the new laws and were turned down. This has leaked(saw it on the cbc app) despite a harsh no communication directive from head office.
So blame the head office and not the stores
Agreed. But in general, most of governmental decisions stem from unqualified people who have no clue making big decisions with little consideration of all the consequences.In December, Liberal MPP Ann Hoggarth said that businesses can't figure out how to absorb the minimum-wage hike should reassess whether they should be in business.
“If you’re going to go out of business on the backs of your employees because you can’t afford to pay them this, perhaps you should reassess your business plan and whether you should be an employer,” the Barrie Advance reported Hoggarth saying. “This is the right thing to do.”
http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/wallace-wynne-only-bully-in-fight-with-tim-hortons
Presumably, this is the type of expert advice that guided Premier Kathleen Wynne's decision. So I thought it would be worthwhile to check out Ms. Hoggarth's bio, to learn more about her background in business.
As it turns out, she is a former elementary school teacher and union leader.
http://annhoggarth.onmpp.ca/Biography?l=EN
Some expert.
Well put. Fact is if you were slogging away and barely making ends meet, you'd have a differing opinion about wage increases. I dare anybody here to try living off $20,000/year on your own. VERY tough, especially with today's cost of living. And BTW, that's pretax. Probably taking home $15,000-18000 (I don't know the tax rates offhand other than approx. $10k is exempt).God forbid that we want to pay someone a liveable (even this is debatable whether it's liveable) wage. I wonder how many people complaining about the minimum wage actually makes more than $14 an hour? Probably everyone.
Who knows maybe now the employees at Timmies can afford to buy a coffee once in a while? We will have to wait and see how this shakes out but you know the people making minimum wage will be spending any increase they receive in the economy. I'm sure Ontario economy will survive.
That's a fair point but is it really going to be all that much? These people are already in the lowest income tax bracket so the $5000-6000 a year extra on which they will pay taxes isn't that much. Granted there are a large number of people too though so it's possible once added up it's a large sum.One thing that I don't think has been discussed is the additional tax revenue the Wynn government stands to make from such a huge wage increase. But Im sure that wasnt part of their agenda when they were pondering this mess.
Remember, products are services are inevitably going to cost more because of this... so not only will the government be getting extra income tax from the employees, it will be getting extra sales tax pretty much across the board because almost everything will be more expensive.That's a fair point but is it really going to be all that much? These people are already in the lowest income tax bracket so the $5000-6000 a year extra on which they will pay taxes isn't that much. Granted there are a large number of people too though so it's possible once added up it's a large sum.
Nah... they didn't think this plan through at all.
There is a lot more to it than that......the additional taxes are a very small part of the equation.Remember, products are services are inevitably going to cost more because of this... so not only will the government be getting extra income tax from the employees, it will be getting extra sales tax pretty much across the board because almost everything will be more expensive.
Nah... they didn't think this plan through at all.
Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation in a long time. From the article I posted the link to....
“In 2013, the minimum wage was around $10 in all provinces. In constant dollars, this rate was similar to the rate observed in the late 1970s”
Ontario is not the only province that is increasing minimum wage.
Sorry but I think numbers are needed to back this up. First of all, the increase is from $11.60 to $14 which is an increase of 20.7%. However, this means that only the employees earning minimum wage receive said increase. If you have employees earning $14+, nothing has changed.Remember, products are services are inevitably going to cost more because of this... so not only will the government be getting extra income tax from the employees, it will be getting extra sales tax pretty much across the board because almost everything will be more expensive.
Nah... they didn't think this plan through at all.
Now, suppose you own a Tim Horton's franchise. The majority of your employees are likely earning minimum wage. So the increase generally translates to 20.7% increase in wage expense. However, on your balance sheet, that doesn't mean your overall expenses have increased 20.7%. It's a percentage much lower, depending on what percentage of your expenses are payroll. For example, if your payroll is 10% of expenses, it has now gone up by 2% to 12% of total expenses (these aren't actuals, just hypotheticals). So a 2% increase in expenses really isn't the biggest deal in the world.
And that's another part of it. It's one thing to start someone at $X/hour. It's another thing to keep them at that rate for many years. How many of these people have been getting increased rates year/year to keep up with inflation?There is a lot more to it than that......the additional taxes are a very small part of the equation.
Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation in a long time. From the article I posted the link to....
“In 2013, the minimum wage was around $10 in all provinces. In constant dollars, this rate was similar to the rate observed in the late 1970s”
Ontario is not the only province that is increasing minimum wage.
An appropriate way to figure out a fair, livable wage is to come up with a few examples of people living in different circumstances but with zero support - circumstances meaning different housing/living arrangements, transit options, etc. For each of these people, how much do they need to keep on top of things (rent, food, clothing, hydro, etc.) and still have say 5-10% leftover for savings?
For a few years I was working in an office making around $11/12 per hour, 37.5 hours per week, no benefits. I luckily lived with my parents so major expenses such as rent were covered. I contributed where I could but honestly it would have been a bit of a struggle if I was on my own. So I say again, regardless of the motivations of the government and such, to me, the increase at the end of the day is still the right thing. There will be some hardship for some businesses but others will figure out a way to make it work.
Right. In historical minimum wage increases they figured it out.....There will be some hardship for some businesses but others will figure out a way to make it work.
By raising prices, and or cutting labour costs in other areas.Right. In historical minimum wage increases they figured it out.....
Manufacturing "figured it out",... by moving out of the country.
So we have to make less than $14/hour to have a valid opinion on the matter?God forbid that we want to pay someone a liveable (even this is debatable whether it's liveable) wage. I wonder how many people complaining about the minimum wage actually makes more than $14 an hour? Probably everyone.
Who knows maybe now the employees at Timmies can afford to buy a coffee once in a while? We will have to wait and see how this shakes out but you know the people making minimum wage will be spending any increase they receive in the economy. I'm sure Ontario economy will survive.
Ontario is already noncompetitive for business due to high energy costs and a heaping of legislation. Adding to that burden won't help.
We are also less competitive because we want more money. I am sure you'll say we need that to afford to live here, but remember increased wages means higher cost to produce, then prices go up.So we have to make less than $14/hour to have a valid opinion on the matter?
Ontario is already noncompetitive for business due to high energy costs and a heaping of legislation. Adding to that burden won't help.
Its cyclical.
Could you live on $14 per hour?
The cost of labour was only one factor. Larger factors included environmental laws etc.By raising prices, and or cutting labour costs in other areas.
Manufacturing "figured it out",... by moving out of the country.
Truth is also most Canadians wouldn't work for little money. So part of the problem is finding the labour.
Look at graduating students. There are lots of jobs that pay minimum wage or a little better, but they think they deserve 60-70k to start.
How many students want to work in labour intensive jobs like plumbing or electrical......no, they want to go to University and hope to make more money.
Except that those making $14 an hour are now going to go to their bosses and say WTF? So they get a raise to $15 or $16 an hour to keep the hierarchy of experience and responsibility in place, or some good people walk and find work elsewhere. So it won't be JUST the minimum wage workers who will be getting paid more because of this.Sorry but I think numbers are needed to back this up. First of all, the increase is from $11.60 to $14 which is an increase of 20.7%. However, this means that only the employees earning minimum wage receive said increase. If you have employees earning $14+, nothing has changed.
Now, suppose you own a Tim Horton's franchise. The majority of your employees are likely earning minimum wage. So the increase generally translates to 20.7% increase in wage expense. However, on your balance sheet, that doesn't mean your overall expenses have increased 20.7%. It's a percentage much lower, depending on what percentage of your expenses are payroll. For example, if your payroll is 10% of expenses, it has now gone up by 2% to 12% of total expenses (these aren't actuals, just hypotheticals). So a 2% increase in expenses really isn't the biggest deal in the world.
Therefore, goods and services will go up in price. Businesses have been talking about it for months and it's already seeing an implementation in the restaurant industry.
So, a $2 coffee now costs $2.10... that is an extra 1.3 cents of sales tax that is going to the government.
A $15 meal now costs $16... an extra 13 cents of sales tax... etc...
Only tax-free essentials are somewhat immune to this, but their prices may go up anyways.
So they wouldn't do that now with what they are currently making?Except that those making $14 an hour are now going to go to their bosses and say WTF? So they get a raise to $15 or $16 an hour to keep the hierarchy of experience and responsibility in place, or some good people walk and find work elsewhere. So it won't be JUST the minimum wage workers who will be getting paid more because of this.
Who says every job has to pay enough so that someone can make a living?Could you live on $14 per hour?
Where does it say in any law book, every job has to pay a decent amount?
If I sit at home and mow people's lawns or deliver newspapers, I should be guaranteed enough wages to make a living to buy a home, get a car, and whatever else I need? That sounds pretty generous of you. If there is an after life and I get reborn, I'll scrap doing well in school, forget about getting a good job, forget about getting promoted and I'll stay home knock on doors and mow lawns all day at $50 per home, which is what I feel entitled to.
And then you have people with shitty jobs and shitty pay and a shitty starting lifestyle because they don't have a lot money to begin with..... and then they decide to have 2 kids. Well, if you can't support yourself already, why the hell also have two kids???
If I'm making $14 an hour and have been there for years and have experience and responsibility, and a gomer high-school student comes in to earn some extra cash, and he is making $11.60 an hour... I'm probably going to be OK with that.So they wouldn't do that now with what they are currently making?
However, now that same gomer walks in off the street, has zero experience and zero responsibility and now he gets the same salary as I do without the negatives? Damn right that is going to make me think about expecting more money.
This isn't just my airy-fairy opinion... I have occasional exposure to a part of the retail segment, and this is exactly what supervisors have been talking about for months.
Why should an experienced supervisor get the exact same salary as Billy Jerk Off?
Fair point.....but I think that applies in any industry.If I'm making $14 an hour and have been there for years and have experience and responsibility, and a gomer high-school student comes in to earn some extra cash, and he is making $11.60 an hour... I'm probably going to be OK with that.
However, now that same gomer walks in off the street, has zero experience and zero responsibility and now he gets the same salary as I do without the negatives? Damn right that is going to make me think about expecting more money.
This isn't just my airy-fairy opinion... I have occasional exposure to a part of the retail segment, and this is exactly what supervisors have been talking about for months.
Why should an experienced supervisor get the exact same salary as Billy Jerk Off?
I never asked that or inferred that. I only asked if you could live on that wage.Who says every job has to pay enough so that someone can make a living?
Where does it say in any law book, every job has to pay a decent amount?
If I sit at home and mow people's lawns or deliver newspapers, I should be guaranteed enough wages to make a living to buy a home, get a car, and whatever else I need? That sounds pretty generous of you. If there is an after life and I get reborn, I'll scrap doing well in school, forget about getting a good job, forget about getting promoted and I'll stay home knock on doors and mow lawns all day at $50 per home, which is what I feel entitled to.
And then you have people with shitty jobs and shitty pay and a shitty starting lifestyle because they don't have a lot money to begin with..... and then they decide to have 2 kids. Well, if you can't support yourself already, why the hell also have two kids???
Possibly. At one time, I had a $200,000 mortgage, $500 monthly car loan, and lived alone so everything was paid by me. I was making $25/hr and got by. So about $50,000.I never asked that or inferred that. I only asked if you could live on that wage.
A $14/hr wage working full time is about $30,000.
At that wage, someone can probably get by if they rent a very cheap place, and take public transit.
For me, the key killer that drained my money was the car. $500/mth + $200/mth insurance + $150-200/mth gas. And then the occasional oil change and such. The car alone was about $900/mth which is $10,800/yr in annual costs alone..... probably the equivalent of $15,000 gross income. And property tax was about $2,400 annually. Which requires around $3,000 gross income to cover. So those two combined was about $18,000 of my $50,000 annual wages.
Thanks....I do understand what everyone is saying, but some of the people that work for that wage don't have the education etc to break out of that income bracket, and they also can't afford to.Possibly. At one time, I had a $200,000 mortgage, $500 monthly car loan, and lived alone so everything was paid by me. I was making $25/hr and got by. So about $50,000.
A $14/hr wage working full time is about $30,000.
At that wage, someone can probably get by if they rent a very cheap place, and take public transit.
For me, the key killer that drained my money was the car. $500/mth + $200/mth insurance + $150-200/mth gas. And then the occasional oil change and such. The car alone was about $900/mth which is $10,800 in costs alone..... probably the equivalent of $15,000 gross income. And property tax was about $2,400 annually. Which requires around $3,000 gross income to cover. So those two combined was about $18,000 of my $50,000 annual wages.
I just think it's shitty that the minimum wage hasn't kept up to inflation, and while I realize I may have to pay a little more for my goods and services to fund the increase, I don't mind because it helps someone else put food on the table - and I can afford it.
It has kept up with inflation. With the new $14/hr it will now outpace inflation by a lot.Thanks....I do understand what everyone is saying, but some of the people that work for that wage don't have the education etc to break out of that income bracket, and they also can't afford to.
I just think it's shitty that the minimum wage hasn't kept up to inflation, and while I realize I may have to pay a little more for my goods and services to fund the increase, I don't mind because it helps someone else put food on the table - and I can afford it.
Adjusted for inflation, min wage has been about the same for 40 years.
The problem is that the government doesn't update wages fast enough in small increments. Sometimes they can go 5 or 10 years with no change, but then suddenly do a big one. I don't know why they do that. Maybe it's too much of an admin nightmare, so they prefer to do it in clumps.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...udged-in-almost-four-decades/article19630636/
https://globalnews.ca/news/3531614/average-hourly-wage-canada-stagnant/
Indeed so. https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-Robots-NETV&p=6019484&viewfull=1#post6019484Thanks....I do understand what everyone is saying, but some of the people that work for that wage don't have the education etc to break out of that income bracket, and they also can't afford to..
