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Liberals pledge to cut small business tax rate to 9% amid backlash over proposed tax

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,469
2,312
113
After a poorly conceived and communicated assault on Small Business under the ridiculous pretence of "fairness" the Liberals pledge to cut small business tax rate to 9% amid backlash over proposed tax

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/small-business-tax-1.4356229

While I will give them some credit for finally seeing the light, they have shown their ready shoot aim towards policy making needs a lot of improvement

July 2017 - "Cheats and loopholes , we are going to increase the tax burden on small business owners"
Oct 2017- " We are going to lower the small business tax"

I guess the message got through to them loud and clear.

hey FrankFooter don't you just love the sound of those words "Tax Cuts for business"
And from a left leaning Liberal no less


Don't worry Frankie they will still manage to close a few businesses as they will press on with changes related to income sprinkling
If it is Doctors who are to suffer it will still prove to be a tremendous mistake as demographic trends will drive a huge increase in demand for sawbones
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,483
18,126
113
Sounds like a good combination with the other changes. It will aid small businesses with less then $500,000 corporate income.

Glad to hear you supporting liberal policies.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,469
2,312
113
Sounds like a good combination with the other changes. It will aid small businesses with less then $500,000 corporate income.

Glad to hear you supporting liberal policies.
Hardly
The small business tax cut was a conservative plan the liberals cancelled in their first budget
(read the article)

They screwed up the communication of their "fairness" (what a load of crap) tax change policy & this latest move is their vote retaining penalty for having a Ready, Shoot, Aim policy.

Glad to hear you are in favour of tax cuts
Keep them coming!
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,931
6,359
113
Interesting that someone could be bashing the government while at the same time admitting they did what leaders should do, carefully examine the information and go where the the evidence leads.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,469
2,312
113
Interesting that someone could be bashing the government while at the same time admitting they did what leaders should do, carefully examine the information and go where the the evidence leads.
Their "Fairness tax fix" was a flawed policy from word go
You do not attack small business. It s the heart of our economy

The cut was right move, however a politically motivated move to try and wash aside their mistake
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,469
2,312
113
Tax cuts only when the deficit is gone, and only for the middle class and lower (and small businesses).
Up the taxes on the top 1%!
Again with the fantasy
Once again, your utopian dream world is doomed to failure
Tax targeting the rich will be a disaster & taxation will not fix inequality
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,012
7
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
Tax targeting the rich will be a disaster & taxation will not fix inequality
You know that the current tax code targets the rich? We have had progressive taxation on and off beginning in 1798 and in every year since 1842. In the US it's been a thing since 1862.

No disaster in sight...
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
9,607
1,198
113
July 2017 - "Cheats and loopholes , we are going to increase the tax burden on small business owners"
Oct 2017- " We are going to lower the small business tax"

I guess the message got through to them loud and clear.
I think you're looking at it wrong. October's message naturally follows July's message. Close the loopholes, then use the added revenue to provide a broad tax break. That's exactly what they should be doing, which makes this the first time since Trudeau got elected that I'm happy with any part of the Liberal's economic policy.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
I think you're looking at it wrong. October's message naturally follows July's message. Close the loopholes, then use the added revenue to provide a broad tax break. That's exactly what they should be doing, which makes this the first time since Trudeau got elected that I'm happy with any part of the Liberal's economic policy.
I guess the question is though, was the Oct. announcement a knee jerk response to the negative response to the July announcement,...???
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,483
18,126
113
I think you're looking at it wrong. October's message naturally follows July's message. Close the loopholes, then use the added revenue to provide a broad tax break. That's exactly what they should be doing, which makes this the first time since Trudeau got elected that I'm happy with any part of the Liberal's economic policy.
It does sound like it will end up more fair, with the same rules for everyone.
We'll see how that plays.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,469
2,312
113
I think you're looking at it wrong. October's message naturally follows July's message.
there is nothing natural about it
This is knee jerk policy making. Ready, shoot , aim

They received all kinds of negative feedback, had to water down their proposal and then give a tax break to wash over the screw up

Close the loopholes, then use the added revenue to provide a broad tax break.
Loopholes ?
You mean like the tax planning tools to ensure it is not more expensive to pass the family farm onto a farmers children as opposed to selling it to someone else?
You mean the tax planning tools that enable growing businesses be able to obtain capital from parents or other family members ?
You mean loopholes that will enable doctors to prosper and remain to practise in small towns in Canada? We are going to need every last doctor due to an aging population.
Tax targeting doctors may prove to be a nightmare down the road

Lots of negative and perhaps unintended consequences in closing them there "Loopholes"


Painting small business owners as crooks and cheats was a PR disaster and a shameful approach.
They drive employment creation in this country


That's exactly what they should be doing, which makes this the first time since Trudeau got elected that I'm happy with any part of the Liberal's economic policy.
The tax cut is a positive.
any tax cut is positive. Canadians are taxed too much
I would be really impress if they followed it up with a reduction in spending to match the lost tax revenue from the cut
I wont hold my breath waiting for that
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
81,483
18,126
113
Closing some loopholes and taxing the rich seems like a much better plan then Trump's tax breaks for the rich.
Already the states big growth seems to be in dollar stores where:
“Essentially what the dollar stores are betting on in a large way is that we are going to have a permanent underclass in America. It’s based on the concept that the jobs went away, and the jobs are never coming back, and that things aren’t going to get better in any of these places.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-10-11/dollar-general-hits-a-gold-mine-in-rural-america

Do you want, an economy of dollar stores?
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,447
1,331
113
Their "Fairness tax fix" was a flawed policy from word go
You do not attack small business. It s the heart of our economy

The cut was right move, however a politically motivated move to try and wash aside their mistake
The consulted, received feedback and adjusted their policies based on a this, yet you still criticize this. I guess right wing people just do not understand leaders that are not dogmatic ideologues. They are sticking to the general policies but enhancing the tax incentives within that policy. Its a good combination. The goals of the policy are right, but they need to be properly targeted.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
The consulted, received feedback and adjusted their policies based on a this, yet you still criticize this. I guess right wing people just do not understand leaders that are not dogmatic ideologues. They are sticking to the general policies but enhancing the tax incentives within that policy. Its a good combination. The goals of the policy are right, but they need to be properly targeted.


Selfie did not go looking for feed back,... Hair Doo simply fucked up,... and now he's trying to fix it.
 

guelph

Active member
May 25, 2002
1,500
0
36
77
Maybe you prefer this type of government

Harper government partnered with industry group battling CRA over KPMG case

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/harper-government-partnered-with-industry-group-battling-cra-over-kpmg-case-1.3257994

The Harper government forged a partnership with a major Canadian accounting association, formalizing it as an adviser to the Canada Revenue Agency, at the same time as the group sought to fight the CRA in court to shield the files of multimillionaires who had stashed money offshore.

Revenue Minister Kerry-Lynne Findlay trumpeted the alliance in November 2014 as a "new era of information and collaboration" between the Canada Revenue Agency and Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada.

CPA Canada represents and lobbies on behalf of most accounting firms in Canada, including KPMG, which the government was pursuing in court at the time to obtain a list of wealthy clients enrolled in an offshore tax scheme in the Isle of Man.

KPMG offshore 'sham' deceived tax authorities, CRA alleges
Federal probe of KPMG tax 'sham' stalled in court
KPMG tax 'sham' could lead to criminal investigation: experts
Tax havens explained: How the rich hide money
The agreement, signed by Canada Revenue Agency chief executive officer Andrew Treusch and CPA Canada head Kevin Dancey, called for the formation of joint committees with senior representatives from both groups — and "ensures" that the CRA will consider the accounting group's "input" into any changes to its programs and services, according to a government news release.

"We value our role as a trusted adviser to the CRA," Dancey said after the agreement was signed.

Andrew Treusch, Kerry-Lynne Findlay and Kevin Dancey
Revenue Minister Kerry-Lynne Findlay watches CRA chief Andrew Treusch, left, and CPA Canada president Kevin Dancey sign a partnership agreement in November.

Three months before the government announced the partnership, Prime Minister Stephen Harper himself met with CPA Canada and the heads of KPMG and other major accounting firms. The exceptional visit on Aug. 13, 2014, to the industry association's headquarters in Toronto was recorded in the federal lobbying registry.

The files show KPMG, CPA Canada and another firm met with Harper, his chief of staff Ray Novak and two other aides, though the Prime Minister's Office won't say what was discussed except to say it was a routine stakeholder meeting.

"This is a serious problem, certainly a perception of conflict of interest. The government shouldn't be cozying up to companies that they've taken to court over very serious allegations," said Dennis Howlett, executive director of Canadians for Tax Fairness.

For confidential tips on this story, please email investigations@cbc.ca or call Harvey Cashore at 416-526-4704.

Howlett said the government should have thought more about partnerships and high-level meetings with an industry whose clients it audits and investigates.

"When they get in bed with the very companies that they're supposed to be regulating, it leads to all kinds of dangerous results," Howlett said.

Duff Conacher, who teaches government ethics at the University of Ottawa, said the agreement might send mixed signals to CRA staff auditing clients of CPA Canada member firms.

"It sends a very bad message. Essentially it says don't enforce laws fully and properly because the government is now a partner with this organization and you wouldn't want to make the government look bad."

CBC is not responsible for 3rd party content
CPA joined fight over principle

At the same time as forming their partnership with the CRA, CPA Canada had sought intervention in a court case where KPMG was opposing federal tax authorities in a major legal battle over access to records of its clients ensnared in an offshore tax probe.

In February 2013, the CRA obtained a judge's order to force KPMG to hand over the names and all its files from "high net worth" Canadians involved in a KPMG-created tax avoidance scheme in the Isle of Man. Tax officials claim the scheme is a "sham" that allegedly "intended to deceive" tax investigators.

CPA Canada formally stated its intention to join the KPMG court action against the federal government in October 2013, court records show. There has been no ruling so far on CPA Canada's request.

Tory ministers met publicly with KPMG as alleged tax 'sham' was probed
Tax 'sham' used by at least 25 wealthy Canadians: document
Dancey, CPA Canada's president, told CBC News in a statement there is a principle of confidentiality at stake. "Taxpayers have the right to obtain independent, confidential tax advice so they can understand and comply with Canada's complex tax laws," he explained.

In a statement CPA Canada posted online after this story was first published, the organization repeated that it sought intervenor status on principle. "CPA Canada does not advocate for the interests of any individual accounting firm or member," the statement says.

Howlett, of Canadians for Tax Fairness, said he suspects CPA Canada is involved in the KPMG case because it might set a precedent for the entire industry.

"They're nervous that if the government… gets the evidence they need to pursue another case against KPMG, then this whole house of cards, of sham companies and offshore banking, is going to come tumbling down," Howlett told CBC News.

The CRA's case against KPMG had remained mysteriously stalled for more than two years without a single court date. Then, after a series of stories by CBC News and Radio-Canada about the case in September, a KPMG lawyer told the court just last week that out-of-court settlement talks had failed — and both sides are now asking for a hearing before a judge.

'Not about trying to hide nefarious tax schemes'

In addition to CPA Canada's request to intervene in the KPMG case, the association has also been campaigning for limits on what accounting firms have to provide to tax authorities when clients are being audited and investigated. The campaign has included lobbying Ottawa bureaucrats, politicians and their staff on related topics for several years, a review of lobby registry records shows.

According to those records, CPA Canada was particularly concerned with the CRA's "access to auditors/accountants working papers" — one of the central issues in the alleged KPMG tax "sham" case.

CPA Canada has also registered to lobby Ottawa on "third-party liability" — the penalties and fines imposed by the CRA on accountants and others who facilitate aggressive tax avoidance by their clients.

Gabe Hayos, vice-president of tax for CPA Canada, said that the association has "long been on the record opposing tax evasion" and that the lobbying campaign is "not about people trying to hide nefarious tax schemes" but rather about ensuring accountants can provide candid, thorough advice to their clients. "All taxpayers have the right to have confidential conversations with their advisers," he said.

Hayos added that the "the ultimate authority" in CPA Canada's partnership with the government "rests as always with the CRA."

He also said there is no connection between the association's Ottawa lobbying and its involvement in the KPMG court case.

As for the meeting with Harper, CPA Canada head Dancey told CBC in an email that his organization did not raise the KPMG court case or any related policy matters with the prime minister or his staff. A spokesperson for Revenue Minister Kerry-Lynne Findlay said neither she nor her staff have ever been approached to discuss the KPMG case.

In a further statement CPA's Dancey said, "For more than a decade we have sought some form of protection for auditor's working papers and the tax advice provided by professional accountants. We have always been transparent and reported all our organization's lobbying activities."


For more on this story, watch the documentary The Isle of Sham from CBC-TV's The National.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
And here I thought this thread was about the,... "Fiberals knee jerk pledge to cut small business tax rate to 9% amid backlash over proposed tax",... ???

An old saying,... "if you can't win an argument,... start another one",... certainly applies here..
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,469
2,312
113
The consulted, received feedback and adjusted their policies based on a this, yet you still criticize this. I guess right wing people just do not understand leaders that are not dogmatic ideologues. They are sticking to the general policies but enhancing the tax incentives within that policy. Its a good combination. The goals of the policy are right, but they need to be properly targeted.
Trying to white wash a mess ?
They shamefully painted small business owners as crooks and cheats and you say this was consulting?

They had no intention of cutting taxes (or they would have brought that out in July) until this blew up in their face

Their planning, communication and reaction on this issue was bad.
 
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