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Half of Americans are poor, have no savings

HEYHEY

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dbiz2

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It kind of is through algebra, from there moving onto differential calculus. They touch on financial math briefly in 12th grade as well.
And I thought the USA were the only country involved with this math issue. What is called "business math" in several H.S. curricula I've seen in the states, is basic arithmetic and then you add (I think they're still called this) the story problems. I used differential and integral calculus for economics (and differential calculus and matrix algebra for statistics), but as my profs. would say, "You can teach anyone to 'plug and chug' the equation. If you don't understand the theory behind it, then how are you going to explain what and why you got the answer you did?"

I remember getting what I guess are finance related questions as story problems in junior high and high school. While I was in my sophmore year of H.S., the then geometry teacher took several days out of geometry to have us calculate a paycheck. She showed us where the tax rates came from and how to calculate and deduct the federal and state taxes from gross pay to net pay, overtime, etc. Her reason behind it was that he own kid couldn't calculate their net pay (she found out her kid's boss wasn't paying the correct wage and not taking out the proper taxes). Along the way, I had various math teachers have the class calculate loan payments for a car, house (mortgage), etc. The math itself wasn't hard--understanding the process and the reasons why certain things happened and when one calculation was correct and another wasn't separated who understood and who didn't.

Additionally, its learning money management at an early age. My allowance was anywhere from $2/wk and maxed out at $5/wk by 9th grade. After that, I was told to get a "J.O.B." in 10th grade. I opened a savings account, then my first checking account when I got the "real job" after college. I'm not going to lie and say I didn't screw up along the way. For the most part I had it pretty decent for a kid growing up in a household with 3 other siblings and a single parent. However, there were a few times in my early 20's when I was late with a debt payment (in one instance, because I was too lazy to drop the damn envelope with the bill payment in the mailbox! UNBELIEVABLE!). It's pretty embarrassing when your boss hands you a telephone message from a creditor telling you to call about a late payment (U.S. laws are somewhat different now about contacting a debtor at their place of employment, but still that was the wake-up call).

Financial responsibility has to be taught early and at home. I certainly did not learn being late with a debt payment was permissible at home. My mother religiously paid her debt on time and ahead of time. I remember as a kid her tearing up a bunch of mail and throwing it in the trash. I asked why. She said it was someone trying to give her a credit card. I asked why didn't she take it. I then received my one of my first financial lessons: just because someone offers it to you doesn't mean you take it. You live within your means.

Living within your means. Something I did a lot better after age 23...
 

HEYHEY

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Nov 25, 2005
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And I thought the USA were the only country involved with this math issue. What is called "business math" in several H.S. curricula I've seen in the states, is basic arithmetic and then you add (I think they're still called this) the story problems. I used differential and integral calculus for economics (and differential calculus and matrix algebra for statistics), but as my profs. would say, "You can teach anyone to 'plug and chug' the equation. If you don't understand the theory behind it, then how are you going to explain what and why you got the answer you did?"

I remember getting what I guess are finance related questions as story problems in junior high and high school. While I was in my sophmore year of H.S., the then geometry teacher took several days out of geometry to have us calculate a paycheck. She showed us where the tax rates came from and how to calculate and deduct the federal and state taxes from gross pay to net pay, overtime, etc. Her reason behind it was that he own kid couldn't calculate their net pay (she found out her kid's boss wasn't paying the correct wage and not taking out the proper taxes). Along the way, I had various math teachers have the class calculate loan payments for a car, house (mortgage), etc. The math itself wasn't hard--understanding the process and the reasons why certain things happened and when one calculation was correct and another wasn't separated who understood and who didn't.

Additionally, its learning money management at an early age. My allowance was anywhere from $2/wk and maxed out at $5/wk by 9th grade. After that, I was told to get a "J.O.B." in 10th grade. I opened a savings account, then my first checking account when I got the "real job" after college. I'm not going to lie and say I didn't screw up along the way. For the most part I had it pretty decent for a kid growing up in a household with 3 other siblings and a single parent. However, there were a few times in my early 20's when I was late with a debt payment (in one instance, because I was too lazy to drop the damn envelope with the bill payment in the mailbox! UNBELIEVABLE!). It's pretty embarrassing when your boss hands you a telephone message from a creditor telling you to call about a late payment (U.S. laws are somewhat different now, but still that was the wake-up call).

Financial responsibility has to be taught early and at home. I certainly did not learn being late with a debt payment was permissible at home. My mother religiously paid her debt on time and ahead of time. I remember as a kid her tearing up a bunch of mail and throwing it in the trash. I asked why. She said it was someone trying to give her a credit card. I asked why didn't she take it. I then received my one of my first financial lessons: just because someone offers it to you doesn't mean you take it. You live within your means.

Living within your means. Something I did a lot better after age 23...
Credit cards are not evil like everyone makes them out to be.
I have several that offer me no annual fee, free out of country health insurance, free car rental insurance, free life insurance and i get to purchase whatever i want and not have to pay for 3-4 weeks. On top of that i get 2% cash back every year around christmas on everything that i spend with no limits. If that isn't enough they gave me 200$ just to accept their card. I love credit card companies. They're literally giving me money for free every month and i've never given them a single penny in interest.
 

dbiz2

Member
Dec 5, 2015
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Exactly, canadians are even in a worse situation since most have so much debt its beyond ridiculous.


To anyone who says that they can't find a job in canada is lying. There are plenty of jobs, you're just not willing to do them.
Now I will sound like a hypocrite given what I said in #62, but there is a serious wage differential here in the U.S. (and no doubt in Canada) between getting a living wage versus minimum wage job. I won't go too deep into the difference other then give a link to a story where IKEA used MIT's living wage calculator as the basis for their average hourly minimum wage http://www.inquisitr.com/1418750/mit-living-wage-calculator-explains-why-youre-always-broke/

As I can only speak of the U.S., yes there are jobs, but the "New Economy" means for many part-time versus full-time work, or if there is FT work, stagnant wages that don't keep up with rising costs. And even with the so-called low unemployment rate, that number hides those who are no longer active in the labor force because they gave up looking for work, or are underemployed. Additionally wealth dispersion in the U.S. is highly uneven, creating great chasm between rich and poor (poor getting poorer, rich getting richer).

It's a difficult problem. Unfortunately, I don't see it as one that will get resolved anytime soon...
 
Dec 22, 2010
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Some people are all about keeping with with the Jones. They feel that if they don't, they'll be looked down upon. The truth is, only suckers fall for the trap set by the corporations to make them believe this.
Suckers for sure.

I still have my first HD flat screen from 2008, still works great, absolutely nothing wrong with it, I don't have an Iphone/blackberry, as I don't need to be connected when I'm out and about (I'm on line at home with my laptop) , my 7-11 throwaway phone is all I need , just use it for texting or phone calls.
 

dbiz2

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Dec 5, 2015
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Credit cards are not evil like everyone makes them out to be.
I have several that offer me no annual fee, free out of country health insurance, free car rental insurance, free life insurance and i get to purchase whatever i want and not have to pay for 3-4 weeks. On top of that i get 2% cash back every year around christmas on everything that i spend with no limits. If that isn't enough they gave me 200$ just to accept their card. I love credit card companies. They're literally giving me money for free every month and i've never given them a single penny in interest.
And that is fine, if you can pay the balance off at the end of the month. But we're talking about financial discipline, and the unfortunate "stuff happens" where some people can't make the EOM payment to pay off the entire balance.

As far as the benefits you mention for a credit card(s) you have, while I have several with the same benefits, I've got one that has an 8% APR, and no cash back, but with the bells and whistles you mention, and another two with cash back, and the other bells and whistles but slightly higher double digit interest rates. I go with the 8% APR credit card for anything I designate a "large item purchase," i.e., over $500. The nickel and dime stuff I buy that I know will be paid off at the end of the month, I spread over the other two cards.

Normally, at least for the last 15 months, I've paid off all three cards at the EOM and no balance carried forward. But I'm risk adverse with the large purchases, so if per chance a balance does have to carry forward, it will be at the lower interest rate.
 
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explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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what are some ways to get past the salesman making it seem like you are gettng a deal?

Leave your credit cards at home.


but you need tools and a place to jack your car etc

Myself, I buy a solid used car that has a excellent rating in low maintenance
If you live in a condo or semi-detached house or townhouse it can be near impossible to do some of the basic maintenance tasks like tire and oil changes. Then you have the problem of where to put the tires. Even if you have the space, it's sometimes better to get a pro to do these things because they can jack up your car properly and have all the tools. It's a real headache to change tires yourself and can be a bit dangerous if you're not careful.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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Credit cards are not evil like everyone makes them out to be.
I have several that offer me no annual fee, free out of country health insurance, free car rental insurance, free life insurance and i get to purchase whatever i want and not have to pay for 3-4 weeks. On top of that i get 2% cash back every year around christmas on everything that i spend with no limits. If that isn't enough they gave me 200$ just to accept their card. I love credit card companies. They're literally giving me money for free every month and i've never given them a single penny in interest.
There are credit cards out there that do not have an interest fee grace period and the terms are buried in the T&C. So they start charging you interest the moment that you buy something. I'm not sure if they are still allowed, but retailer credit cards might be like that. I don't think any bank credit cards have that.

I have a friend that bought an appliance at Home Outfitters was offered an HBC credit card that had a $200 "bonus" for signing up. He essentially signed up for a line of credit. He cancelled the card a few weeks later when he read the fine print of the cardholder's agreement and found out they charge interest immediately.

I agree that credit is a tool, but financial institutions are deliberately hiding important information like when the interest accrues in the fine print.

Remember too that those rewards are not free. They're coming from the other people that don't pay their bills on-time and are racking up interest. The way I see it though, we might as well benefit from other people's lack of financial discipline.
 

thirdcup

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Jan 4, 2005
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Directly above the center of the earth
The large print giveth. The small print taketh away.

In the May 2016 issue of The Atlantic the front cover shows a middle aged guy with a bag on his head and a frowny face. The main story is titled The Secret Shame of the Middle Class. The subtitle says Nearly half of Americans would have trouble finding $400 in a crisis. I'm one of them. - By Neal Gabler. I'm betting you can find it online or online at the library.

I kept this issue and keep it handy. My financial situation is good. Probably better than most. However, what might happen is never far from my mind. I can survive unemployment for several months.
 

xmontrealer

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May 23, 2005
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Not my Portuguese and Italian neighbours. They all own mortgage-free 2,3,4, etc. houses. They are all in the trades so they do each others' houses.
That may be true in parts of Toronto, and also Vancouver, but the rest of Canada is not nearly as "house-rich" even if you were smart enough or lucky enough to have bought a home 5 or 10 years ago.

Retirees who have to depend on low risk investments for income are looking at almost zero returns, and tend to eat up capital and/or sell assets to make ends meet, which further diminishes their annual income.

For young people just coming out of school, not to mention the general working age population, full-time jobs are in short supply, and it's a buyer's market re: wages and salaries as far as many employers are concerned.

Many people are staying ahead of their living expenses on a month to month basis only, hoping no unexpected large expenses come up, taking on more and more easily available credit, and unfortunately are unable to save a nest egg for what should be their golden retirement years.

Sorry about being so depressing, but it's time we got our heads out of the sand.
 

Smallcock

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Smallcock

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I would be pretty shocked if its true 70% of Americans have less then $1000. That would be bizzare. WOW!!!

The way I maintain my finances is, when I want something I will not buy it unless I get a good deal on it. In most cases I do. Once in a while you pay full pop. Also when invest in hope improvements I do a rough ROI to understand how I get my money back. I do most of my own car repairs cos I kinda enjoy it and it saves me HUGE!! For example I needed a new rear wheel bearing this year. Indy mechanic wanted $400 for part (hub assembly) and $90 in labour+tax, so about 600. $200 part online and a leisurely 2 hr job and I am up $400 TAX FREE!!!! So more then an escort makes!!!! New tie rod 22 vs 58 + 180 in labour.... etc etc etc.
They might only have $1k in the bank but many also own their home, have investments, and pensions. So the $1k is misleading.

Remember the stories years ago about retirees eating pet food to survive. It was myth.
 

Smallcock

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That may be true in parts of Toronto, and also Vancouver, but the rest of Canada is not nearly as "house-rich" even if you were smart enough or lucky enough to have bought a home 5 or 10 years ago.

Retirees who have to depend on low risk investments for income are looking at almost zero returns, and tend to eat up capital and/or sell assets to make ends meet, which further diminishes their annual income.

For young people just coming out of school, not to mention the general working age population, full-time jobs are in short supply, and it's a buyer's market re: wages and salaries as far as many employers are concerned.

Many people are staying ahead of their living expenses on a month to month basis only, hoping no unexpected large expenses come up, taking on more and more easily available credit, and unfortunately are unable to save a nest egg for what should be their golden retirement years.

Sorry about being so depressing, but it's time we got our heads out of the sand.
Those baby boomers bought their houses 30 - 40 years ago, not 5 - 10 years ago. They've made a killing!

I've never understood why it would be difficult to retire if you have a mortgage free home or investments. Move to a warmer climate with a cheap standard of living like Ecuador and live out the rest of your days in bliss.

I'm not even close to retirement age and I think about dipping out of the Canadian rat race all the time. Why do I insist on staying in this frigid expensive place when I can sell off everything and live like a king elsewhere? Right now it's just the promise that I can sock away more money before calling it quits.
 

Smallcock

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Jun 5, 2009
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Credit cards are not evil like everyone makes them out to be.
I have several that offer me no annual fee, free out of country health insurance, free car rental insurance, free life insurance and i get to purchase whatever i want and not have to pay for 3-4 weeks. On top of that i get 2% cash back every year around christmas on everything that i spend with no limits. If that isn't enough they gave me 200$ just to accept their card. I love credit card companies. They're literally giving me money for free every month and i've never given them a single penny in interest.
Agreed. Got my first CC while in school with a $1k limit. Helped me build credit and was very convenient. I've been able to buy all kinds of things with the points I earn. It really is free money when used properly.
 

Smallcock

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Jun 5, 2009
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Been there done that. Uber has been shut down where I live. Also, I had too many issues. For one, my car is now too old to qualify.
That new rule is a drag. It keeps lots of potential drivers from using their platform.

I'm a curious person and drove for Uber on New Years Eve two years ago. Uber said it's the busiest time of year and you could make $1k for the day and I wanted to take up the challenge and also learn first hand what it's like to be an Uber driver/taxi driver. I took lots of breaks and grossed around $350.

Have not done it again because one would have to treat it like a full time job to make it worthwhile. But the experience was good and keeps you grounded. Strangers giving me tips, complimening my car, some engaging in friendly convo, and those that treat you as a nobody etc. It's not my cup of tea but if I were ever in a crunch for money I'd do it. The best thing about it is that you can choose your own hours but it's not going to make any serious $$$.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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That new rule is a drag. It keeps lots of potential drivers from using their platform.

I'm a curious person and drove for Uber on New Years Eve two years ago. Uber said it's the busiest time of year and you could make $1k for the day and I wanted to take up the challenge and also learn first hand what it's like to be an Uber driver/taxi driver. I took lots of breaks and grossed around $350.

Have not done it again because one would have to treat it like a full time job to make it worthwhile. But the experience was good and keeps you grounded. Strangers giving me tips, complimening my car, some engaging in friendly convo, and those that treat you as a nobody etc. It's not my cup of tea but if I were ever in a crunch for money I'd do it. The best thing about it is that you can choose your own hours but it's not going to make any serious $$$.
I really think doing it full time is a mistake. If I did it I would do only peak hours. I think you can do Uber delivery with an older car.
 

SkyRider

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Those baby boomers bought their houses 30 - 40 years ago, not 5 - 10 years ago. They've made a killing!
I overhead this conversation on a TTC bus about 10 years ago. Guy said he just inherited his parents' High Park house. Worth $500,000, his parents bought the house circa 1950 for $5,000.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Credit cards are not evil like everyone makes them out to be. ....
I agree that cards are great for people with financial discipline. Problem is their business model is meant to encourage people using credit when they can't afford it. It is simply a business meant to profit massively from people too misguided or too desperate to pay them off each month. Look at all the reduced rate offers for balance transfers, repeated offers to extend credit limits, and the ease in which they give out cards.

If the rates were just a few points above prime I wouldn't have much of a problem with the business. Interest rates of 18-29% would have made sense in the early 80's when prime was well into double digits but in a century when prime has barely broken 5% it is ridiculous. Banks have kept the interest rates artificially high simply because they can make more money. People will make the argument that rates are high because of the rate of default. Of cours eif they didn't give out credit willy nilly the default rate would be minuscule.
 

SkyRider

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That may be true in parts of Toronto, and also Vancouver, but the rest of Canada is not nearly as "house-rich" even if you were smart enough or lucky enough to have bought a home 5 or 10 years ago.
I use to live in Lower Outremont. Those houses had 3 self-contained flats with their own separate entrances. In 2004 when I re-visited the house where I use to live, I noticed each flat was now a condo and were selling for north of $300,000 each.
 
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