Dalhousie University probes misogynistic student 'Gentlemen's Club'

[vwdub]

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/dalhousie-university-probes-misogynistic-student-205500208.html


I for one am glad that when I was in university, people didn't overhear some of the conversations I was having with my buddies. I'm also glad that no one caught some of the messages that I am sure I wrote on pieces of paper and passed along to some of my friends during class.

I'm not saying that it is normal behaviour to talk about women like this, but if people heard the conversations that happen on the inside of a factory, it would probably pale in comparison to what was posted on this wall. I'm only using factory because the first part of my career was spent working in a factory and let me tell you, the day from 9 to 5 was FULL of some of the most FUCKED UP conversations you could ever imagine.

Did these guys do anything wrong? As far as I can tell they just talked about some chicks in their class.

I'm 35 and to this day I still have some really ridiculous/stupid/messed up conversations once in a while with my friends over email and whatsapp (yes, we talk down on some girls that we know in real life) OOOOOOOOH.... is it really THAT bad?

I'm more humoured by the comments - everyone talking about how "these guys will surely cause trouble when they become dentists" - how do you know? If you were to pry open the minds of every single person out there in the world, you would surely see some twisted thoughts from a lot of people.

 

[Aardvark154]

I'll have to look up the statistics, but there was a report on University related sex crimes in the U.S. released a few weeks ago which showed that most of the "university rape culture" statistics which have been flying around for years are incorrect and overstated. Perhaps the statistics aren't the same in Canada, but I rather doubt it.


Likewise I'm sure, that just as problematic in Canada as in the U.S., is the total lack of regard for due process on the part of most Universities and their investigations and discipline.

Therefore, while I can understand the natural desire of the Men's Ice Hockey Coach at the University of Ottawa, to see if this could all be handled internally, the best thing that can be done in such a situation is to say "then you should call police, and if you won't then I will have to since you have now put me and my players into an impossible situation." Frankly Police have seemingly treated the Ottawa students better than the University has done, and I have no reason to believe the same wouldn't be true in the case of Dalhousie, where there doesn't seem to have been any crime at all.

 

[d_jedi]

Sorry, but whatever happened to freedom of speech?
Rape is a terrible crime, but there's no evidence (that I'm aware of) that suggests these men had committed a rape or seriously (jokes about chloroform aside) considered committing one.

To my understanding, this was a private Facebook group consisting of 12 people. This is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

(Aside: What the hell is "rape culture"? I'm having trouble understanding exactly what that means, and the definitions I see really don't apply to the situations where the term has been used)

 

[vwdub]

Sorry, but whatever happened to freedom of speech?
Rape is a terrible crime, but there's no evidence (that I'm aware of) that suggests these men had committed a rape or seriously (jokes about chloroform aside) considered committing one.

To my understanding, this was a private Facebook group consisting of 12 people. This is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

(Aside: What the hell is "rape culture"? I'm having trouble understanding exactly what that means, and the definitions I see really don't apply to the situations where the term has been used)

It defies logic to me. They "said a bunch of stuff about some women" - wow.

I am sure there are piles of examples, but I mean, just ONE that comes to mind right now - Eminem created a song called "Kim" in which the lyrics are all about him killing his wife. You even hear her choking at the end of the song and dying. This was released and sold millions of copies. It was then performed live countless times. To be clear, there was major backlash against this song. However, this is an instance where a person called out a specific person and fantasized about killing that person and that person did not approve/like of the perpetrator.

These guys just talked out fantasy and that's that. Maybe talking about it out loud and writing to each other about it was a relief and just way to let things out... instead of being psycho about it and keeping it bottled up inside and then one day cracking, raging, and committing a crime.

 

[canada-man]

 

[nobody123]

To my understanding, this was a private Facebook group consisting of 12 people.

The words "Facebook" and "private" should not be uttered in a sentence together, unless they are separated by the word "not". As for the free speech aspect, sure. They have a right to exercise free speech. Just as the university has a right to say "Wow. You guys are a bunch of egregious cuntwaffles and we'd like to point out that this shit in no way represents or speaks for any part of our institution."

Would kicking their stupid asses out of the university be too extreme a punishment? Yeah. And the university is just stupid enough to consider it too. But I think they'd be totally within reason and rights to restrict them from any scholarships, bursaries, clubs or groups that imply any close association with the university or its values. At best these assclowns are incredibly stupid motherfuckers who you do NOT want representing you in any way, any how.

(Aside: What the hell is "rape culture"? I'm having trouble understanding exactly what that means, and the definitions I see really don't apply to the situations where the term has been used)

Simple. It is the normalization of the idea of rape that is trending on campuses all over North America - more so in the States than here though, really. And rape culture is not just fratboys marking and roofie-ing the drinks of girls they hope to assault. It also involves stupid fucks making funny "jokes" like this. Not too many decades ago "jokes" about lynching niggers were considered just as funny and harmless.

 

[vwdub]

Just because they make "jokes like this" doesn't mean they are "stupid fucks".

And just because a group of people (the majority) don't find a joke about the specific "hate fuck" of a girl funny, doesn't mean that another smaller group (i.e. 5 or 6 dudes talking about it amongst themselves) can't see it as "just" a joke with no real world translation.

Obviously a public joke about lynching niggers is going too far. But I am quite sure people in groups of friends make all sorts of jokes and comments they wouldn't dare have their mom or grandma hear them say.

 

[happ]

If the feminist nazi club is allowed so to should the gentlemen's club.

 

[nobody123]

Just because they make "jokes like this" doesn't mean they are "stupid fucks".

Nope. Sorry. It does. And even if you think it is possible to make a "joke" like this and NOT be a stupid fuck, it is mathematically impossible to make a "joke" like this on motherfucking Facebook and be anything other than a stupid fuck. Does not compute. Divide by zero.

 

[vwdub]

Nope. Sorry. It does. And even if you think it is possible to make a "joke" like this and NOT be a stupid fuck, it is mathematically impossible to make a "joke" like this on motherfucking Facebook and be anything other than a stupid fuck. Does not compute. Divide by zero.

On the matter of making a joke like this on Facebook, yes, that makes you a stupid fuck.

But no, if a bunch of guys amongst themselves make a joke about hate fucking a girl, that doesn't make them a stupid fuck. It doesn't compute to me, that you don't get that.

 

[trtinajax]

Remember the female students they were discussing on facebook & therefore in public have to sit beside these guys in class & labs. Consider how they feel. They to have rights. If the guys had kept their "jokes" between themselves no one would have been hurt. And yes the female targets of their juvenile "jokes" were hurt in as much as they were denied the same level of comfort in the classroom as the guys.

Hope none of you guys that are defending this type of "free" speech are managers were you work because, if so, the companies have a very poor hiring record.

 

[vwdub]

Remember the female students they were discussing on facebook & therefore in public have to sit beside these guys in class & labs. Consider how they feel. They to have rights. If the guys had kept their "jokes" between themselves no one would have been hurt. And yes the female targets of their juvenile "jokes" were hurt in as much as they were denied the same level of comfort in the classroom as the guys.

Hope none of you guys that are defending this type of "free" speech are managers were you work because, if so, the companies have a very poor hiring record.

Nothing prevented the girls from creating a Facebook page on their own and making fun of them. <-- this is stupid and I'm not suggesting that was the answer they should have turned to, but my point is that they could have just ignored the situation or turn it around into something much more epic and really show it to those guys.

People nowadays cry at the littlest thing instead of sucking it up, learning from it, and moving on. I've been called so many names in the past growing up due to my race (minority in a city that was basically all white and school where I was the only minority). Yeah, it sucked. It was annoying sometimes. Maybe sometimes I could have handled a situation differently and stood up and said more. I didn't always though. But I did learn a lot about myself and moved on. Through the magic of Facebook, I can actually see what a lot of the people who called me names are up to now. I do not envy them. I did quite well for myself and I'm happy with how my life turned out. And I did it without being a crybaby about some people making fun of me.

A LOT of people here will have similar stories I'm sure. I'm not even that strong a person, but the strong people can fight through this sort of BS and move on and learn from it and turn out fine without relying on society to come to their rescue.

 

[SkyRider]

[h=4]Rape chant controversy[edit][/h]"During the 2013 Imagine day, a post on Twitter showed first year students in the Sauder School of Business singing a chant that bragged about rape. The chant, dating back to at least 1993, had already created controversy at Saint Mary's University days earlier.[SUP][124][/SUP] The Commerce Undergraduate Society stated that it had been trying to scale back the cheer by using it in buses but not outside. Four CUS leaders resigned over the incident and 81 others were required to perform an unspecified amount of community service by the UBC President, Stephen Toope.[SUP][125]"[/SUP]

 

[rhuarc29]

I've never joked about raping women, nor have my friends, but I have worked with people who have a rough sense of humor and have at least joked disparagingly about women. It's not that they're stupid or bad people, it's simply a different mindset and a different opinion of what's acceptable. Consider that if these boys' names were released what would happen to them. Their social and professional lives would pretty much be over. Do they deserve that severe a penalty for something they said in jest? Hell no! Did they deserve a scare? You bet!

Such jokes are sure to make women uncomfortable. Hell, they make me uncomfortable. But it should be kept in mind that they were just jokes and undeserving of the zealotry that would come down on those involved.

 

[canada-man]

A new survey from the Bureau of Justice Statistics debunks the oft-repeated claim that one in five women will be sexually assaulted while in college.

The survey found that between 1995 and 2013, an average of 6.1 for every 1,000 female students were raped or sexually assaulted each year. That's about 0.61 percent annually, or (at most) 2.44 percent over the average four-year period (one in 41). That’s way smaller than 20 percent. That’s also virtually unchanged from 2005, the last time BJS put out this report, where the rate of rape among college women was 6 per 1,000.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/m...e-not-been-sexually-assaulted/article/2557262

 

[Aardvark154]

(Aside: What the hell is "rape culture"? I'm having trouble understanding exactly what that means, and the definitions I see really don't apply to the situations where the term has been used)

Simple. It is the normalization of the idea of rape that is trending on campuses all over North America - more so in the States than here though, really. And rape culture is not just fratboys marking and roofie-ing the drinks of girls they hope to assault. It also involves stupid fucks making funny "jokes" like this. Not too many decades ago "jokes" about lynching niggers were considered just as funny and harmless.

The problem is that the highlighted comment is "urban myth," there is no empirical evidence which shows that sexual assaults at Universities are any more acceptable now than it was in 1920 or that instances of sex crimes by University students against other University students has exponentially increased over the past half-century.

 

[Aardvark154]

A new survey from the Bureau of Justice Statistics debunks the oft-repeated claim that one in five women will be sexually assaulted while in college.

The survey found that between 1995 and 2013, an average of 6.1 for every 1,000 female students were raped or sexually assaulted each year. That's about 0.61 percent annually, or (at most) 2.44 percent over the average four-year period (one in 41). That’s way smaller than 20 percent. That’s also virtually unchanged from 2005, the last time BJS put out this report, where the rate of rape among college women was 6 per 1,000.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/m...e-not-been-sexually-assaulted/article/2557262

Thank you for finding the report I had mentioned.

 

[Kenny-sauga]

I noticed a lot of leeway is being given in this thread to student due to the age or "harmless" comments. If they were to say " go become a house wife"...its harmless. Saying/suggesting/posting about "hate rape" someone ....not so harmless. The point I am trying to make is why the so called future professionals should not be held to a higher standard. These are the guys who be treating someone's daughter/mother/wife/sister. Possible harsh punishment..perhaps. But sometimes this is the only option to root out the cause.

Let's flip the coin and say a female from your family/friends was mentioned on that Gentlemen's club? Freedom of speech, I agree. However, one must use judgment rather than jumping to freedom of speech. Holocaust is a good example. Personally, I found the jokes and the fact that they created a FB page....nah, the guys are morons. They should get the taste of the roses by working at McD one day. Jokes are meant to be light hearted, laughable not about hate rape and rape and crazy shit. My vote is to let them bear the consequence by not having dentistry license. Many other professions won't take such "jokes" lightly.

 

[canada-man]

 

[blopar]

"Just joking"/"it's private"/"freedom of speech".

Are you guys for real??