Never Talk To The Police

[penguin1]

As an American, I would say this is very good advice regarding the hobbyist. The American police department's budgets rely on money obtained from illegal activities. One of the reasons why so much resources are spent on enforcing prostitution is because it brings in a lot of revenue for the police. Not only do they get you on court costs and fines, but they typically impound your car and charge you an outrageous fee to get it back. I would much rather see LE devoting more resources to violent crimes, instead of consensual sex between adults, but it doesn't bring in any revenue.

A typical scenario: Cops view ad on Backpage. Set up appointment to find out location. Cancel appoint. Stake-out location. Pull over next guy leaving location. Uses scare tactics and promise of lighter legal charges to person if he implicates woman providing services. Guy complies, police impound car and charge man. Repeat over and over and eventually arrest woman. Police Dept generates lots of $ and does the noble deed of detering people from having consensual sex with money exchanged.

A typical scenario where a person is informed of his rights: Cops pull man over. Man says "what crime am I suspected of commiting?" Cop says "Soliciting Prostitution. You better work with us and we'll go easier on you." Man says "I'd like to excercise my right to remain silent." Cops can't possibly have evidence of what went on in hotel and can't charge person. Bye.

 

[wilbur]

Many are convicted simply because they admitted their crime, or let the police officer search their car or let them into their house when they didn't have to. No need for the police to conduct extensive investigations and collect evidence when the suspect simply talks too much.

About letting a cop into your house. A police officer's job is to uphold the law. If he sees something that's against the law, it's his duty to enforce it and lay charges. If you let a cop in for a cup of tea and he sees your pot plant, or your (legal) handgun on the kitchen table being cleaned, he's likely to charge you.

You don't have to have done something wrong to be charged with a crime. Lots of innocent people get convicted because they talked too much and fell into a trap. Best is to respectfully not say anything. The onus is on the police officer to investigate and collect enough evidence in order to have probable cause to lay charges. Many police look for a person to convict, not necessarily a person who has committed the crime.

Keep you mouth shut! Any lawyer will tell you that. Most cops are reasonable, but many are not. The latter is who you have to be aware of.

 

[Occasionally]

Cop haters are all paranoid. Yeah, there's some shady ones, but most are good people just trying to look out for the greater good. Every industry has some people that do irresponsible acts.

I guess when the cops set up those stations off the highway checking all cars (often during the holidays) then I guess they are all control freaks stopping every car looking for drunks. I guess it's a waste of time and infringes on people's rights since the chances of the cops finding a drunk out of the 1,000 cars they check is probably a handful tops. They just wasted time of the other 997 people.

I've been stopped once by a cop after a strip club with a buddy. I was the driver. It went like this....

- Cop car showing lights behind me
- I slow down and stop on the side of the road
- The cop comes over and I roll down the window
- She asks for ID
- She goes back to the car to check my background (or whatever they do when they go back to the car with your driver's license)
- After a minute or two, the cop comes back, gives me back my ID and says I'm free to go and have a good night.

WOW. That sure is police harassment. Just check out the cops squeezing info out of me and acting aggressive with authority, training and gun at their side. It sure was a super scary incident.

I think the problem with hyper-sensitive people is they see the media and TV shows showing that Ferguson incident and such and are easily influenced (naive). Yeah it happens, but look at how many cops and incidents there are everywhere..... millions each year. Only a small fraction lead to shady police work. Real life policing isn't like an episode of COPs on Fox where teams of policeman are breaking down doors and chasing crooks on foot. The media makes it sound like crime is everywhere and cops are kicking down doors and doing foot chases 24/7. They aren't. Most cops do patrols, give out tickets and are at the station doing admin work.

 

[penguin1]

stopping every car looking for drunks

She asks for ID
- She goes back to the car to check my background (or whatever they do when they go back to the car with your driver's license)

What does checking your ID have to do with drunk driving? If she didn't have any reason to suspect you were drunk, than she had no reason to check your ID. These checkpoints that are set up under the guise of combatting drunk driving are really to generate revenue for the province.

 

[demien2k5]

... but look at how many cops and incidents there are everywhere..... millions each year. Only a small fraction lead to shady police work.

Look who's naive now.

 

[BlueLaser]

Also never be friends with anyone who was or is currently in the force. Keep your distance.

What's your logic there? I have about 5 good friends that are cops. It has caused me zero trouble in the past.

 

[BlueLaser]

What does checking your ID have to do with drunk driving? If she didn't have any reason to suspect you were drunk, than she had no reason to check your ID. These checkpoints that are set up under the guise of combatting drunk driving are really to generate revenue for the province.

You're confusing one story with the other. I get people snip to try and go straight for the point they're trying to make, but you lose all context. You sarcastically commented about how much time was wasted and how people were inconvenienced when they find a drunk driver, then went on to explain the one time he was stopped by a cop after a visit to the strip club.

In Canada, it is my understanding that police can stop anyone at any time without cause to ascertain that they have a valid license and insurance. Which is why, no matter what they stop you for, whether it's a check stop for everyone, a stop because you were speeding, or a stop "just to check" that you have a licence (at which point they can always look for signs of being impaired), they run your licence to make sure it hasn't been suspended and to check for any outstanding warrants. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege. Part of that means being prepared to demonstrate you have the required documentation and are fit to be doing it.

As a pilot, Transport Canada inspectors and police are allowed and have frequently, randomly boarded my aircraft or stopped me before or after boarding, to verify my documentation. They check my licence, the aircraft's journey logs, the certificate of airworthiness, the certificate of registration, aircraft manuals, etc. Mine, co-pilots, flight attendants. Anything out of whack, they can charge us, revoke our licenses, ground the flight, ground the aircraft, ground the entire fleet, request further documentation be forwarded, etc. Driving a car isn't all that different. Welcome to a world where you have permission to operate a machine heavy enough and at speeds fast enouhg that it can easily kill. Going through the "hassle" of having to identify yourself and prove you have the privilege of operating your car is part of the deal. Don't like it? Feel free to use public transport instead.

 

[BlueLaser]

Look who's naive now.

I think it's obvious who's naive. 70,000 police in Canada. Thousands of interactions between police and the public every day. How many are negative? I don't mean someone holds a grudge because they think a cop wasted their time when the cop did absolutely nothing wrong, I mean how many are legitimately cops overstepping their bounds? 1 a week? 2? 3? Out of thousands a day?

Better yet, for every case of police going too far, you can, if you actually bothered to look for them, find cops going above and beyond. Like the cop that tied the kids shoe (seems small, but certainly not part of the job description), cops who not only give directions, but actually guide people there (follow me in my car, or foot patrol just walks them there), takes photos with tourists, etc.

The idea that cops are, inherently, bad people, is bullshit. They are inherently no different than you or I. And like you and I, some of them are assholes. Welcome to life and society where in every walk of and in every job, you will run into assholes.

 

[whitewaterguy]

Also never be friends with anyone who was or is currently in the force. Keep your distance.

My career necessitated occasional involvement with police for backup On one occasion, a detective I knew, was kind enough to call me to let me know that the massage parlour he had been seeing me frequent, was suspected of illegal activities, that the place was under surveillance, and plans were to bust the joint. He advised I not go there any more. True enough, a few weeks later, the shit hit the fan, and of course , the local and provincial news. I couldn't have Been more appreciative, as it was a career and family life saver. It pays to always be pleasant and respectful

 

[WestCoaster]

I used to stick up for the police in these types of threads, then I got to know a few of them. I am a firm believer in the ACAB school these days. They are useless as tits on a bull for the victims and are far more worried about compensating for whatever short comings led them to law enforcement to deal fairly or appropriately with people. There's a reason not a week goes by that you don't hear about a cop using excessive force, or shooting an unarmed person, or a youtube video of them shooting a dog in someone's backyard doesn't hit the net. The actual abuse is far reaching and widespread, it's only the digital age that is finally catching up with these clowns and they are being caught more often than they ever used to be. I will be generous and say 5-10% of them care, but that's a stretch in some areas. I would follow the be polite and say nothing school - hands down.

 

[demien2k5]

I think it's obvious who's naive. 70,000 police in Canada. Thousands of interactions between police and the public every day. How many are negative? I don't mean someone holds a grudge because they think a cop wasted their time when the cop did absolutely nothing wrong, I mean how many are legitimately cops overstepping their bounds? 1 a week? 2? 3? Out of thousands a day?

You're joking right? I think you're right! It IS obvious who's naive...

 

[penguin1]

In Canada, it is my understanding that police can stop anyone at any time without cause to ascertain that they have a valid license and insurance. Which is why, no matter what they stop you for, whether it's a check stop for everyone, a stop because you were speeding, or a stop "just to check" that you have a licence (at which point they can always look for signs of being impaired), they run your licence to make sure it hasn't been suspended and to check for any outstanding warrants. Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege. Part of that means being prepared to demonstrate you have the required documentation and are fit to be doing it.

As I stated before, I'm an American, an don't have a full knowledge of Canadian law. In Michigan, we don't have checkpoints, as they were ruled unconstitutional by the MI Supreme Court. However, other states do.
I guess we agree to disagree than. I believe in the right to freely travel, unmolested, throughout the state/province as long as you're not committing any moving violations. The fact that some people might be getting away with driving with a suspended liscence, etc is a price I'm willing to pay for living in a free society.

 

[interactive]

I believe the 'ride program' is an exception in that they can stop you for no reason to check for impaired and / or educate. But it is specific to that program. I do believe they cannot run your license at that point without a reason - ie impaired or suspected impaired. Other than the 'ride program' they must have a reason to stop & run plates etc.

 

[Titalian]

Too many people are too easily intimidated by others who think they are in positions of absolute 'authority' when they are essentially doing nothing but quietly going along with their business. Police officers are the worst offenders in this regard, followed closely by 'security' types and 'inspector' types - each seem to think that their small individual mandates allows them free reign to trample indiscriminately on the individual rights and freedoms of others. If only everyday citizens would take more time to educate themselves about their rights, they'd find it much easier to deal with these assholes, and would spend much less time fearing them.

True too!

But being polite also goes a long way without getting into a fuss about rights.

The problem is that the types I mentioned above most often take your politeness as license to perpetually over-step the bounds of acceptable conduct within their mandate. I'm all for being civil, but these days, I approach my own upper of limits patience much quicker than ever before simply based on many years experience in dealing with BS. I'm simply not intimidated at all anymore. Especially by those that think they can cause you all kinds of administrative headaches simply because you didn't lower your eyes in quiet deference and blindly obey their every command.

You can politely remind them of your rights, like in my example (I wasn't going to out anyone, including escorts).

However, if you display a disrespectful attitude, it doesn't help. Some officers appreciate respect so much, that they forget about the ticket so to speak when one is polite.

(I remember when I was a kid sitting in the back seat of my dad's car who was stopped by a cop with a radar. I didn't understand how he know my dad's name (obviously from the licence lol), so I asked "Why did he call you Mr. so and so". My dad said "He has to call me Sir".)

P.S. The cops remember the assholes especially, when they decide to appear in court.

Like I said, not all behave badly, and I'm all for being civil in initial contact, but I don't put up with the BS anymore. Mutual respect is demanded in any police interactions, a concept that many police service members sadly seem to forget the first time they strap on a sidearm.

Your last point simply reinforces my original comments. Why should average citizens have to expect vengeful retribution from spiteful agents of the law enforcement community if they don't abandon their rights and freedoms when confronted? Sounds like typical law enforcement fear mongering to me. I'll take my chances in court in the company of a good lawyer any day.

Years ago when I first moved to Toronto, I got pulled over because I wasn't wearing my seatbelt.

I had just come out of a bar with three bears in me. The young officer came up to my car and realized that I had been drinking.

He asked me if I had and I acknowledged. He then proceeded to escort me to the back seat of his cruiser, which I did.

Please note that this was all in politeness and respect for one another. He then asked if I would take the breathalyser test, which I did.

Never once thinking that I would fail the test. But I did and he showed me the numbers. Which were over the limit.

I'm not going to go into any details, of what I preached to him as he's writing up his citation, but in the end, he let me go, with a ticket for not wearing my seatbelt.

And asked me to park my car in the mall across the street and take a cab home, which I did. It was my lucky day, I gotten a decent cop.

What I do remember vividly, is that afterwards, when everything was said and done, another officer showed up in his cruiser and asked the officer I was with, if everything was under control.
To which he replied yes, everything's good. After that other officer left, the officer I was with, then turned to me and said, did you hear the officer, who I spoke to,
your lucky, that he's not the one who pulled you over !!!

 

[Siocnarf]

You never know what kind of policeman (policeperson?) you're going to get. But it also depends what is their current assignment. If they catch you by accident, I suppose they are more likely to exercise their discretion like in your story. If they catch you during a sobriety checkpoint or prostitution sting operation they are more certain to go by the book. If we talk to policemen we have to try to judge the situation, the person and also trust our luck.

 

[Titalian]

You never know what kind of policeman (policeperson?) you're going to get. But it also depends what is their current assignment. If they catch you by accident, I suppose they are more likely to exercise their discretion like in your story. If they catch you during a sobriety checkpoint or prostitution sting operation they are more certain to go by the book. If we talk to policemen we have to try to judge the situation, the person and also trust our luck.

This brings up a very good question. How else can they catch you, unless it is a sting operation (entrapment). I'm sure most gentlemen on this board would not be involved in these type's of encounters.

If its not a sting operation, how can they catch you ??? How can they get you to court without a victim ??? The bottom line is, there has to be a victim or at least a witness, to the so called crime, otherwise there is no crime. Jmt

 

[Siocnarf]

From what I heard, they can probably send you to court with just probable cause, even if they don't have solid evidence. This might scare most clients into admitting guilt in exchange for leniency. My understanding is that the only clear evidence they can have is either a confession from you or the woman, or if the woman is a cop or if they somehow witness the transaction/communication.

I also always wondered how it worked for client of streetwalkers who are the most often arrested. Clearly, unless the hooker is a cop they have no proof that the guy comunicated for buying sex, only probable cause. This seems to be enough to arrest them. Possibly most of them admit guilt or agree to attend John school in exchange for freedom. But I don't know if they can easily be convicted in court.

Don't forget: sex between strangers is lawful and unregulated. In principle, prostitution is almost impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt, even if you pick up someone at 2am in an industrial district.

 

[Occasionally]

Safe to say that for anyone who doesn't like cops has a grudge against them. No doubt something odd happened in the past.... lots of speeding/parking tickets, cop caught them boozing while driving, arrested, maybe thrown in jail for a short time for being an ass, etc.... Also a case of people not liking cops due to their authoritative power. Too bad. A civil society needs some law and order as opposed to anti-authoritative people who prefer to label most cops as bad people, and do things to the extreme and hoping nothing bad happens.

 

[Occasionally]

This brings up a very good question. How else can they catch you, unless it is a sting operation (entrapment). I'm sure most gentlemen on this board would not be involved in these type's of encounters.

If its not a sting operation, how can they catch you ??? How can they get you to court without a victim ??? The bottom line is, there has to be a victim or at least a witness, to the so called crime, otherwise there is no crime. Jmt

This is very similar to a thread a year or two ago regarding escort safety. Some people don't like cops interfering and prefer the whole escort industry to be based on willingness of the troubled person to have guts and "speak up for themselves to the cops" when the going gets rough. Or endless groups of people will suddenly come out of nowhere and give cops tips. Therefore, the troubles solves themselves where the cops don't have to do much, but just show up.

On the other hand, some people preferred authorities to be proactive and investigate/check to make sure things are safe. The industry is a very secretive one with high mobility where people can be shuffled around from spot to spot each day, yet anti-cops think solving escort troubles is a walk in the park where cops are mind readers and at the hint of trouble, cases will solve themselves.

 

[Titalian]

From what I heard, they can probably send you to court with just probable cause, even if they don't have solid evidence. This might scare most clients into admitting guilt in exchange for leniency. My understanding is that the only clear evidence they can have is either a confession from you or the woman, or if the woman is a cop or if they somehow witness the transaction/communication.

I also always wondered how it worked for client of streetwalkers who are the most often arrested. Clearly, unless the hooker is a cop they have no proof that the guy comunicated for buying sex, only probable cause. This seems to be enough to arrest them. Possibly most of them admit guilt or agree to attend John school in exchange for freedom. But I don't know if they can easily be convicted in court.

Don't forget: sex between strangers is lawful and unregulated. In principle, prostitution is almost impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt, even if you pick up someone at 2am in an industrial district.

lets be realistic here, I would say a majority of the men on this board are probably married, Hello! Of course they want this to go away. In anyway possible.
But the bottom line here is, that its just sex. Its not war, its not killing, it doesn't even come close to drugs. Its a need to be with someone of opposite sex that's willing
to accommodate your needs. Human Nature

I have to admit that after all these years in our supposedly advanced culture, that we still don't get it !