US Intelligence: No Evidence Russia Did It
- Thread starter Big Sleazy
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BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union ambassadors reached a preliminary agreement on Friday to push ahead with hard-hitting economic sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine crisis but details remained to be worked out, diplomats said.
The 28-nation EU has toughened its stance towards Moscow since last week's downing of a Malaysian airliner in an area of eastern Ukraine held by Russian-backed separatists.
After a discussion that lasted all day Thursday and part of Friday, ambassadors asked the EU's executive Commission to draw up a legal text setting out economic sanctions that the EU would impose for possible agreement next week.
Key measures suggested by the Commission included closing EU capital markets to state-owned Russian banks, an embargo on arms sales to Moscow and restrictions on the supply of energy and dual-use technologies. They would not affect current supplies of oil, gas and other commodities from Russia, diplomats said.
One EU official said there was "an overall preliminary agreement on the concept" but ambassadors would hold more discussions next week on the basis of the legal text.
Maja Kocijancic, spokeswoman for EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, said there was still work to be done.
"The direction of travel here is very clear but we are still travelling," she told reporters.
It was not immediately clear if the legal text would include all the options identified by the Commission. But EU officials said it would cover all four areas where sanctions have been proposed - restrictions on Russian access to European financial markets, defence and energy technology and equipment useful for both defence or civilian purposes.
Separately, the EU was due to publish later on Friday the names of 15 individuals and 18 entities, including companies, subject to asset freezes for their role in supporting Russia's annexation of Crimea and destabilisation of eastern Ukraine. https://in.news.yahoo.com/eu-reaches-preliminary-deal-russia-economic-sanctions-115436192.html
The 28-nation EU has toughened its stance towards Moscow since last week's downing of a Malaysian airliner in an area of eastern Ukraine held by Russian-backed separatists.
After a discussion that lasted all day Thursday and part of Friday, ambassadors asked the EU's executive Commission to draw up a legal text setting out economic sanctions that the EU would impose for possible agreement next week.
Key measures suggested by the Commission included closing EU capital markets to state-owned Russian banks, an embargo on arms sales to Moscow and restrictions on the supply of energy and dual-use technologies. They would not affect current supplies of oil, gas and other commodities from Russia, diplomats said.
One EU official said there was "an overall preliminary agreement on the concept" but ambassadors would hold more discussions next week on the basis of the legal text.
Maja Kocijancic, spokeswoman for EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, said there was still work to be done.
"The direction of travel here is very clear but we are still travelling," she told reporters.
It was not immediately clear if the legal text would include all the options identified by the Commission. But EU officials said it would cover all four areas where sanctions have been proposed - restrictions on Russian access to European financial markets, defence and energy technology and equipment useful for both defence or civilian purposes.
Separately, the EU was due to publish later on Friday the names of 15 individuals and 18 entities, including companies, subject to asset freezes for their role in supporting Russia's annexation of Crimea and destabilisation of eastern Ukraine. https://in.news.yahoo.com/eu-reaches-preliminary-deal-russia-economic-sanctions-115436192.html
Unless of course that is the Russians decide that the sanctions are a breach of contract or just plain say two can play this game.
Since the system hasn't changed all that much in the past forty years, and there was universal service in the Soviet Union, I'm reasonably sure that there are some older separatists who have a fair memory as to how to operate it.If you think rebels could operate it without the trained crew, please tell me how would you go about shooting a plane at 10km traveling with the speed of 900km/hr using this:
Well, back in the 80's when both those incidents happened, I fully believe that a US fighter pilot who had eyes on a target like a 747 would actually have reported that this is what it was and maybe would have tried getting attention of the pilots first. Where the Soviet pilot decides he's had enough of these guys using his space for a shortcut and doesn't bother reporting what he sees.
Russia recently signed up for more trade with China, Europe will be a small market for them. Not so sure that sanctions will be as effective as we are lead to believe.
Translation: Unless a mosquito lands on your nuts, all problems can be solved without violence
My wife gave me the above pic. Too funny and too true.
We don't accept in today's society men hitting women. So simple, no justification, no excuse. The problems are complex because we make them that way, vested interest to maintain conflict. The world is games, lies, excuses and posturing.
I have no time for lies, games, excuses or posturing.
Europe needs the oil, at least until alternate supplies are available, which will take years. Conversely, Russia needs to sell the oil. They are already blowing through their accumulated cash reserves and the promised capital improvements to Crimea are costing lots. Neither side can battle it out economically for more than a few months.
Re breach of contract: There is always an out for reasons of state. For example, no one expects contracts to be honoured with a country with which you are at war. And while the West is not at war w Russia, there is probably also the same exception for grave diplomatic situations.
Even if you take the Russian announcements at face value, the contract deals with shipments from a Far Eastern oil / gas field which has not yet been developed. So this is 5 years off. The European market will still be valuable to Russia. Assuming that Europe itself is not fracking shale oil reserves by that time. Or taking delivery of American oil and gas as an alternative supplier.
Assuming what you say is true, what is your response to the US assertion that the Russian armed forces are now intervening directly in combat in Ukraine by shelling Ukrainian govt border positions from inside Russia?
Isn't the same govt which pounds Ukraine with howitzer and grad salvos also likely to supply AA missiles, training and crews?
Ukraine depends on Russia for half its natural gas; the rest of Europe imports about 30 percent of its gas from Russia.
And there is talk in the US about speeding up the supply to friendly european countries so they have less fear of Russia. Again a play by both sides without consideration for the people. It is never about what is right, it is always about what is in it for me. AND THAT IS F-Ked
And there is talk in the US about speeding up the supply to friendly european countries so they have less fear of Russia. Again a play by both sides without consideration for the people. It is never about what is right, it is always about what is in it for me. AND THAT IS F-Ked
Russia's foreign ministry said Sunday that a Ukrainian shell hit a Russian border town, killing one person and seriously injuring two others. Ukraine denied firing a shell into Russian territory.
A statement from Russia's foreign ministry labelled the incident a "provocation," and warned of the possibility of "irreversible consequences, the responsibility for which lies on the Ukrainian side."
Is this the source?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukrainian-shell-fire-kills-1-near-border-russia-says-1.2705471
I have seen some comments on the web about that video, and some people say it is no where near the border. I have no idea where it is but none of this has been verified by anyone with a smidge of credibility or impartiality. But I don't know why you would have your knickers in a knot Fuji, after all, based on your value system, this is 100% acceptable, although unfortunate.
Aside from NATO and every European country and intelligence service, that is. None of whom have any interest in fighting a shooting war with Russia.
Russian media is completely Kremlin controlled and is almost 100% lies. I do not accept anything Russian media says wo corroboration. Below see link listing a large # of explicit Russian media lies on Ukraine.
OTOH, I tend to accept what the US state department says on Ukraine.
http://www.examiner.com/list/russia-s-top-80-lies-about-ukraine
The time had come for the insurgent colonel to roll out his main argument for more support: Losing this war on the territory that President Vladimir Putin personally named Novorossiya (New Russia) would threaten the Kremlin’s power and, personally, the power of the president.
An article published by Strelkov’s adviser, Igor Druzd, on Wednesday laid out the case that Putin, today, is facing the same choice that ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych faced a few months ago: either send in the army and win control over the territories of Novorossiya in eastern Ukraine—or lose his presidency. “I hope that the Ukrainian tragedy will neither become the tragedy of Russia nor the personal tragedy of Putin,” wrote Strelkov’s adviser.
In Strelkov’s recent video posted online, he said he “could never have imagined” that of the more than 4.6 million people living in the Donetsk region, only about 1,000 volunteers were willing to join his rebel army to defend Novorossiya: “We can see anything but crowds of volunteers outside our gate,” admitted Strelkov, whose nom de guerre means “gunman” and whose real surname is Girkin.
Strelkov’s mission in Ukraine, whoever gave it to him, has been bigger than just the defense of the DPR. He claims to be defending Putin’s reputation and power in Russia, too. In an interview with The Daily Beast on Thursday, Druzd, the Strelkov adviser, spoke of the importance of the Russians coming to Donbass to prevent a revolution like Kiev’s Maidan from spreading to Moscow.
“Putin’s popularity is fading away, since nobody has stopped the slaughter of the Russians in Donbass," Druzd said. “The president’s approval rating is much lower in Moscow and St. Petersburg than in the provinces. As we know, [past] revolutions—both the French and October—took place in the capitals; unfortunately, we cannot exclude the possibility of attempts to mount Maidan-type protests in Moscow,” Druzd said. “For now Russia mostly sends us information and humanitarian help,” he added, when what the rebels need to defend Russian interests is “significant military support.”
Dangerous talk, certainly. As anyone who knows Putin is aware, Russia’s president does not take kindly to threats. If Strelkov pushes too far, he could find himself a lone gunman in a very lonely war. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-in-ukraine-warns-him-of-possible-defeat.html
Daily Beast article on threats being made to Putin by Donetsk warlord, Strelkov (actually until last year a Russian intelligence operative) and bemoaning the almost total lack of popular support for the Donetsk People's Republic among Donetsk People.
A retired Russian military officer turned separatist leader in eastern Ukraine who is suspected of downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17 was allegedly involved in the 1992 Serbian ethnic cleansing of Muslims in the eastern Bosnian town of Visegrad.
A photo showing young Igor Girkin, known by his pseudonym Igor Strelkov, in Visegrad with another Russian mercenary and Boban Indic, a member of the Serb brigade that laid siege to the town, implicates the veteran of both the Soviet and Russian armies in the pogrom of Bosniak (Bosnian Muslims) civilians.
At least 3,000 Muslims were massacred in the eastern Bosnian town. Muslim men were rounded up and murdered. Hundreds of women were detained and mass-raped at the spa, the infamous Vilina Vlas. Women, children and elderly people were locked in houses and burnt to death.
Igor Strelkov has been called "one of the most powerful separatist figures in eastern Ukraine. He's a veteran of both the Soviet and Russian armies and has been described as a covert agent of Russia's GRU military intelligence. He declared himself the Minister of Defence of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/igor-strel...ed-massacre-3000-bosnian-muslims-1992-1458304
Article linking same Strelkov in involvement with ethnic cleaning in Bosnia.
An article published by Strelkov’s adviser, Igor Druzd, on Wednesday laid out the case that Putin, today, is facing the same choice that ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych faced a few months ago: either send in the army and win control over the territories of Novorossiya in eastern Ukraine—or lose his presidency. “I hope that the Ukrainian tragedy will neither become the tragedy of Russia nor the personal tragedy of Putin,” wrote Strelkov’s adviser.
In Strelkov’s recent video posted online, he said he “could never have imagined” that of the more than 4.6 million people living in the Donetsk region, only about 1,000 volunteers were willing to join his rebel army to defend Novorossiya: “We can see anything but crowds of volunteers outside our gate,” admitted Strelkov, whose nom de guerre means “gunman” and whose real surname is Girkin.
Strelkov’s mission in Ukraine, whoever gave it to him, has been bigger than just the defense of the DPR. He claims to be defending Putin’s reputation and power in Russia, too. In an interview with The Daily Beast on Thursday, Druzd, the Strelkov adviser, spoke of the importance of the Russians coming to Donbass to prevent a revolution like Kiev’s Maidan from spreading to Moscow.
“Putin’s popularity is fading away, since nobody has stopped the slaughter of the Russians in Donbass," Druzd said. “The president’s approval rating is much lower in Moscow and St. Petersburg than in the provinces. As we know, [past] revolutions—both the French and October—took place in the capitals; unfortunately, we cannot exclude the possibility of attempts to mount Maidan-type protests in Moscow,” Druzd said. “For now Russia mostly sends us information and humanitarian help,” he added, when what the rebels need to defend Russian interests is “significant military support.”
Dangerous talk, certainly. As anyone who knows Putin is aware, Russia’s president does not take kindly to threats. If Strelkov pushes too far, he could find himself a lone gunman in a very lonely war. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-in-ukraine-warns-him-of-possible-defeat.html
Daily Beast article on threats being made to Putin by Donetsk warlord, Strelkov (actually until last year a Russian intelligence operative) and bemoaning the almost total lack of popular support for the Donetsk People's Republic among Donetsk People.
A retired Russian military officer turned separatist leader in eastern Ukraine who is suspected of downing of Malaysian Airlines MH17 was allegedly involved in the 1992 Serbian ethnic cleansing of Muslims in the eastern Bosnian town of Visegrad.
A photo showing young Igor Girkin, known by his pseudonym Igor Strelkov, in Visegrad with another Russian mercenary and Boban Indic, a member of the Serb brigade that laid siege to the town, implicates the veteran of both the Soviet and Russian armies in the pogrom of Bosniak (Bosnian Muslims) civilians.
At least 3,000 Muslims were massacred in the eastern Bosnian town. Muslim men were rounded up and murdered. Hundreds of women were detained and mass-raped at the spa, the infamous Vilina Vlas. Women, children and elderly people were locked in houses and burnt to death.
Igor Strelkov has been called "one of the most powerful separatist figures in eastern Ukraine. He's a veteran of both the Soviet and Russian armies and has been described as a covert agent of Russia's GRU military intelligence. He declared himself the Minister of Defence of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/igor-strel...ed-massacre-3000-bosnian-muslims-1992-1458304
Article linking same Strelkov in involvement with ethnic cleaning in Bosnia.
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source was cbc / AP....
both sides lie, I accept that you prefer varying degrees of lies, I don't. a lie is a lie. I accept your position. The problem is due to lies of any degree people die. It is not a slam on you, when I was growing up I believed just like you, That stopped with Iraq. Now try to convince me otherwise.... fool me once....
both sides lie, I accept that you prefer varying degrees of lies, I don't. a lie is a lie. I accept your position. The problem is due to lies of any degree people die. It is not a slam on you, when I was growing up I believed just like you, That stopped with Iraq. Now try to convince me otherwise.... fool me once....
