Reverie

David Suzuki tries to challenge the fact the planet isn't warming

blackrock13

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Not at all.

What we debated in previous threads is the relevance of the 15- to 17-year "pause" in global warming, in terms of whether or not we should still believe the computer-model predictions.

Suzuki is claiming no such pause has occurred at all. He says the "deniers falsely claim" that has occurred.

According to what Suzuki wrote, the New York Times and the New Republic can be added to the list of "deniers" making false claims. So can the IPCC and the BBC, for that matter.
No, Justin Gillis 'of the NYT' is playing fast and loose with the facts, assumptions, and conclusions, and not really saying what you claim. The points he has raised have also been answered to a large degree in past threads.

you've struck twice with you list of articles and claims so I really don't want to waste more time on the BBC, the Econmist and the New Republic what's it.

The only place Suzuki mentioned the 17 year claim in the article was here and he does not say, 'no pause has occurred'

Another recent misrepresentation concerns research by the U.K. Met Office, which deniers falsely claim shows the Earth hasn't warmed for 17 years. Science isn't perfect, but it's one of the best tools we have for understanding our place in the cosmos. When people around the world apply rigorous scientific method to study our actions and their impacts on the things that keep us alive and healthy -- clean air, water, soil and biodiverse plants and animals -- we must listen.
I cannot believe you are as stupid as you appear and make the claims you do. You have to putting on this act.

When the New Republic article contains comments like this i knw the guy hasn't got a clue;

If scientific models can’t project the last 15 years, what does that mean for their projections of the next 100?
When you have almost 200 years of records to use as a basis for study, 15 years isn't something to throw everything out the window. He makes the same mistake as those who say that since they can't tell you what the weather will be next week, how can they tell you what's going to happen in 100 years.


Nuff said for now.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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The stories weren't wrong, and the Met Office never rebutted them.
Period.
Newspaper's claim that 'world stopped getting warmer almost 16 years ago' is simply wrong, says Met Office
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/16/daily-mail-global-warming-stopped-wrong


Just in the off chance that you're not as stupid as you keep making yourself out to be, and just have bad eyesight.
That about covers the legit defenses for responses.

Did you understand the squiggly line reference?
I dumbed it down to the level of about a 10 year old, but make it simpler if that's still hurting your brain.
 

MattRoxx

Call me anti-fascist
Nov 13, 2011
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I get around.
As for the "consensus" idiocy, let me borrow a quote from a lecture that was delivered by the late Michael Crichton (since I don't feel like wasting my Sunday teaching science lessons to Fuji). Here's the relevant quote, along with a link to the full lecture in the event that Fuji actually wants to learn about global warming.


https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~scranmer/SPD/crichton.html

"Consensus" isn't science. Science is about testing data and producing results that can be verified and replicated.

The global warming alarmists have completely failed to produce such results. In your own words: Deal with it.
I clicked on the harvard.edu link you provided, and read:
I re-post (Crichton's speech) here not because I agree 100% with everything in it..
You know who else uses that quote from Crichton's speech to back their beliefs? Creationists.
Creationists and climate change deniers; two anti-science peas in a pod.

And while Crichton was a compelling writer, I have to tell you that Jurassic Park was not a documentary.

I think this headline is appropriate for your thread:
Hostility towards scientific consensus: A sign of a crank

It has often been written on this blog and elsewhere that the mark of a true crank is hatred of the scientific consensus, be it consensus regarding the theory of evolution, the science that says homeopathy is impossible, anthropogenic global warming; various areas of science-based medicine; or the safety and efficacy of vaccines. Perhaps the most famous expression of distrust of a scientific consensus is the famous speech by Michael Crichton, in which he famously said:
science fiction writer Michael Crichton said:
Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.

To which I (and many others) responded, “Bullshit! Period.”

In fact science is all about coming to a consensus, but it’s about coming to a consensus based on data, experimentation, and evidence, a consensus that has reproducible results that are, as Crichton put it, verifiable by reference to the real world.
After all, what is a scientific theory like the theory of evolution or Einstein’s theory of relativity but a statement of the current scientific consensus regarding a major scientific topic? What is peer review but quality control (making sure the scientific methodology is sound) coupled with testing new science against the current consensus to see where it fits in or where it exposes weaknesses? What is science but attempting to forge a consensus regarding theories and statements that most accurately describe the universe in a useful and predictable way?

...

Oh, and for building a consensus about how the universe works. It’s perfectly acceptable to challenge such a consensus, but if you don’t have the goods in the form of evidence, experimentation, and data to show that the consensus is in serious error, there is no reason for scientists to take your challenge seriously.

ADDENDUM: Joshua Rosenau has an excellent takedown of this combined idiocy as well. Key passage:
But moving past those trivialities, Casey and Jay’s underlying point is catastrophically wrong. As John Ziman points out in Reliable Knowledge: “the goal of science is a consensus of rational opinion over the widest possible field” (emphasis original). The beauty of science is precisely that it is rooted in our shared reality, and as such it is subject to the formation of consensus on which new work can build.
Yep, that’s about right. I’ll ask again: What is a scientific theory but a scientific consensus about how one aspect of how the world works?
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/16/daily-mail-global-warming-stopped-wrong


Just in the off chance that you're not as stupid as you keep making yourself out to be, and just have bad eyesight.
That about covers the legit defenses for responses.

Did you understand the squiggly line reference?
I dumbed it down to the level of about a 10 year old, but make it simpler if that's still hurting your brain.
I've given you the benefit of the doubt, but now I'm starting to think you're a compulsive liar.

The headline is wrong. There is nothing in that column that supports the headline. Since you keep posting the column, I assume you know that what I'm saying is true.

So why do you keep making statements that you know to be false?

The Met Office has not challenged the reports that were done by the BBC, the New York Times and others. You have no evidence to challenge that assertion, and your constant pointing to an erroneous headline changes nothing.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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I clicked on the harvard.edu link you provided, and read:


You know who else uses that quote from Crichton's speech to back their beliefs? Creationists.
Creationists and climate change deniers; two anti-science peas in a pod.

And while Crichton was a compelling writer, I have to tell you that Jurassic Park was not a documentary.

I think this headline is appropriate for your thread:
Actually, I'm one of the few people commenting in this thread who has been willing to accept the science. Unlike you, I'm not one of the "new climate deniers."

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/344426/new-climate-deniers-rich-lowry
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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I've given you the benefit of the doubt, but now I'm starting to think you're a compulsive liar.

The headline is wrong. There is nothing in that column that supports the headline. Since you keep posting the column, I assume you know that what I'm saying is true.
You keep repeating that, like the anti-science crank you are, but provide nothing to back it up.
So go ahead, make a case that the headline is wrong, but provide proof.
Show me the lines in the article which refute the headline, proof from the Met Office that they don't support the story, and proof that the findings are wrong.
Repeating that something is wrong without ever having read or understood it makes you look stupider then a bag of Ford's on crack.
 

Rockslinger

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Apr 24, 2005
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I stayed away from this thread for the usual reason (pissing matches), however, I heard on the TV news last night that Dr. Suzuki, apparently, said that the floods in Alberta are likely caused by climate change. (Perhaps punishment for digging up the oil sands?)
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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I stayed away from this thread for the usual reason (pissing matches), however, I heard on the TV news last night that Dr. Suzuki, apparently, said that the floods in Alberta are likely caused by climate change. (Perhaps punishment for digging up the oil sands?)
No climate scientist will blame any one specific weather disaster on climate change, but there is growing consensus that the extreme weather we are living through is consistent with the predictions for climate change.
 

LickingGravity

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I stayed away from this thread for the usual reason (pissing matches), however, I heard on the TV news last night that Dr. Suzuki, apparently, said that the floods in Alberta are likely caused by climate change. (Perhaps punishment for digging up the oil sands?)
Of course he would. Can the man be any more self-serving and predictable?
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Of course he would. Can the man be any more self-serving and predictable?
You do understand stand he's not saying it 'was' caused by CW, just 'likely' and there is 'some' truth in it. The rapid snow melt in the mountains this spring led to a quick heavy runoff, more than the ground and rivers can handle, topped by a series of rain storms. The people in the area have said repeatedly it's never happened before, but then you know better.

edit; Having now read the article, it's clear he not saying it 'is' the cause, just possibly, but not probably.
 

blackrock13

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I stayed away from this thread for the usual reason (pissing matches), however, I heard on the TV news last night that Dr. Suzuki, apparently, said that the floods in Alberta are likely caused by climate change. (Perhaps punishment for digging up the oil sands?)

This is the event that compelled you to contribute to this thread?

You're such a prig.

Then again knowing that this pearl came from you, I decided to check it out. Surprise, surprise, not quite as you reported. Here's the article itself in the HP.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-suzuki/alberta-flood-climate-change_b_3480005.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

Is Alberta Flooding a Sign of Climate Change?


It seems hardly a week goes by when we don't hear some climatologist or other expert say, "it's difficult to connect one particular weather event to global warming, but..." We heard it this week as communities in Calgary and Southern Alberta were evacuated in the face of extreme rainfall and rising floodwaters.
The "but," of course, is that we know burning fossil fuels and pumping carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere causes the Earth's average surface temperatures to rise. That warming leads to climate change, which generates increased extreme weather-related events. Those events, according to the World Meteorological Organisation's "Statement on the Status of the Global Climate in 2012," include "major heatwaves and extreme high temperatures, drought and wildfires, extreme precipitation and floods, snow and extreme cold, and tropical cyclones."
As the report points out, "Natural climate variability has always resulted in such extremes, but the physical characteristics of extreme weather and climate events are being increasingly shaped by climate change."
In many ways, climate change is about water change. For every one degree increase in temperature, the atmosphere's ability to hold water increases seven per cent. Massive amounts of water from melting ice sheets are being liberated while evaporation increases from oceans that cover 70 per cent of Earth's surface. Meanwhile greater turbulence and instability of the atmosphere and jet stream dump heavier loads of water and increase the frequency of extreme events like tornadoes and hurricanes.
Despite what we know about climate change, and despite the fact that less than one per cent of climate scientists dispute the prevailing research behind human-caused warming, we still see news outlets, industry and others trying to convince us that it's not happening or that it's not a big deal. And we see governments refusing to act in any meaningful way.
As I wrote in a recent column, "When people around the world apply rigorous scientific method to study our actions and their impacts on the things that keep us alive and healthy -- clean air, water, soil and biodiverse plants and animals -- we must listen, not just about climate, but about a range of issues."
Air, water and land are intimately and complexly interconnected in ways that we still barely comprehend. For years, the insurance industry has warned us that exploding costs of climate-related claims must be met with greenhouse gas emissions reductions. In light of that, it's shocking, after so many years of denial that human-induced climate change is real, to hear some pundits now calling for adaptation rather than demanding a massive program to slow climate change.
Can we say the recent flooding and extreme weather in Southern Alberta and B.C. were caused by global warming? Maybe not, but we can say we should expect more of the same - and worse if we don't do something to get our emissions under control. As many scientists warn, climate change isn't coming; it's here. We may be able to adapt to and cope with some of its current effects, but it will become increasingly difficult if we continue to ignore the need to wean ourselves off fossil fuels, through conservation and switching to cleaner energy.
 

fuji

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train

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A clear and accurate statement from Suzuki.
So Suzuki said the Calgary flooding wasn't caused by Global warming ?

And Fuji, I see that you continue just to make things up when you are short of facts......or perhaps you have backup for the 97% BS figure that you just casually threw out there.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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I stayed away from this thread for the usual reason (pissing matches), however, I heard on the TV news last night that Dr. Suzuki, apparently, said that the floods in Alberta are likely caused by climate change. (Perhaps punishment for digging up the oil sands?)
Yup. I actually saw this piece before I saw the article I mentioned in my OP -- but I didn't bother with it, because it's too easy a target.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-suzuki/alberta-flood-climate-change_b_3480005.html

You keep repeating that, like the anti-science crank you are, but provide nothing to back it up.
So go ahead, make a case that the headline is wrong, but provide proof.
Show me the lines in the article which refute the headline, proof from the Met Office that they don't support the story, and proof that the findings are wrong.
Repeating that something is wrong without ever having read or understood it makes you look stupider then a bag of Ford's on crack.
LMFAO. You want me to prove the non-existence of something??

How does one do that?

There is nothing in the article that supports the erroneous headline. If I was wrong, you would have already quoted the part that proves me wrong. You haven't done that, because no such wording exists. And you know it.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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So Suzuki said the Calgary flooding wasn't caused by Global warming ?

And Fuji, I see that you continue just to make things up when you are short of facts......or perhaps you have backup for the 97% BS figure that you just casually threw out there.
In fairness to Fuji, he didn't make up the number. It was Dana Nuccitelli (him again) and another rabid greenie who came up with the dubious calculation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environme.../may/16/climate-change-scienceofclimatechange

But the truth is in the fine print. If you read far enough into the article, you discover only about one-third of the published papers expressed an opinion. The majority of the published papers expressed no opinion, one way or the other.

Not exactly a "consensus." Not even close.

Furthermore, the statement about the minority of supporting papers -- that "97.1% of which endorsed human-caused global warming" -- appears to be quite a stretch. According to a breakdown by Christopher Monckton (a skeptic), the overwhelming majority of those supporters only endorsed the idea that man-made carbon dioxide may be a contributing factor -- not necessarily a principal cause.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/...n-global-warming-in-the-literature-a-comment/

There is no consensus.

And as I have said all along, even if there were a consensus, it wouldn't matter. Science should be based on evidence that can be tested and replicated, not straw polls.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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So Suzuki said the Calgary flooding wasn't caused by Global warming ?

And Fuji, I see that you continue just to make things up when you are short of facts......or perhaps you have backup for the 97% BS figure that you just casually threw out there.
Actually Suzuki said it probably wasn't. Let's at least get that straight. It's hard enough for MF2 to keep the truth straight without these twists and turns.
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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Actually Suzuki said it probably wasn't.
Not quite.

After using an entire column to link the flooding to global warming, he asked whether the events in Alberta and B.C. were caused by global warming, and then replied to his own question by saying, "Maybe not, but we can say we should expect more of the same...."

That's not the same thing as saying "probably not."

It would be nice to think Suzuki is capable of rejecting such nutty thinking. But I don't think he has it in him.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Not quite.

After using an entire column to link the flooding to global warming, he asked whether the events in Alberta and B.C. were caused by global warming, and then replied to his own question by saying, "Maybe not, but we can say we should expect more of the same...."

That's not the same thing as saying "probably not."

It would be nice to think Suzuki is capable of rejecting such nutty thinking. But I don't think he has it in him.
Maybe not, probably not, ffs you pedantic plus. Nice try troll.
 
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