Its you who is making shit up.
I did not say the minister said there was an unspoken policy, that pure Fuji bullshit.
Senior Fatah Officials Call For One State Solution.
- Thread starter gryfin
- Start date
I did not say the minister said there was an unspoken policy, that pure Fuji bullshit.
Your lie was that the minister "confirmed" the policy. When you were challenged on that lie you came back with this "unspoken policy" bullshit which did not come from the minister, it came from an activist named Hedva Eyal, who does not in any way speak for the minister.Its you who is making shit up.
I did not say the minister said there was an unspoken policy, that pure Fuji bullshit.
The minister never confirmed the policy, what he confirmed was that any such shots were a violation of Israeli policy, and therefore if they were happening, they should stop.
He confirmed there was an 'unspoken policy' by making a public statement that it should end.Your lie was that the minister "confirmed" the policy.
Had he said, 'no, we never do that', you could argue that there was no policy, but that he ordered it stopped confirms it was there in the first place.
It did go on for 8 years, that's not accidental.
He did not confirm that there was an unspoken policy. You can't just make this shit up and expect people to do anything other than call you a liar.
I found an employee of mine was slacking off awhile ago, I told him to shape up and stop slacking off. By telling him to stop slacking off I was not "confirming there was a policy of slacking off"!!!
How fucking stupid are you? Or is it just blatant lying? It's either stupid or lying. Which is it?
I found an employee of mine was slacking off awhile ago, I told him to shape up and stop slacking off. By telling him to stop slacking off I was not "confirming there was a policy of slacking off"!!!
How fucking stupid are you? Or is it just blatant lying? It's either stupid or lying. Which is it?
You can't make this shit up and expect people to call you anything but a fool.He did not confirm that there was an unspoken policy. You can't just make this shit up and expect people to do anything other than call you a liar.
I found an employee of mine was slacking off awhile ago, I told him to shape up and stop slacking off. By telling him to stop slacking off I was not "confirming there was a policy of slacking off"!!!
For something like this to be going on for 8 years requires multiple people, 8 years worth of prescriptions requested and filled in and considerable infrastructure.
It was big enough and real enough that the minister had to make a statement to end the 'unspoken policy' after a nationally aired documentary.
Keep lying troll, you are just making stuff up left right and center.
First of all the article says that it's unknown who did this, whether they were Ethiopians or Israelis. We just don't know. So you sure as hell can't just make up a claim that it was Israel--that's just you engaging in a fantasy and pretending your fantasy is real.
Second you don't really know if it involved multiple people. It might have. It might have been one doctor, running around putting this on everybody's file, and everybody else just giving out the medications indicated on file. You can say what you think might be more or less likely, but you don't know.
Third even if there were a couple of people involved--and even if one of them was managing the others--that does not make it government policy of whichever government, Israeli or Ethiopian, those people worked for. Others on the thread have given you other examples of where some local deputy took it upon himself to do something illegal, that totally violated government policy, in Canada. The same can happen in any country, and when it does, it is not government policy--it is a crime committed by some local deputy who violated the policy.
You don't know who did this, you don't know how many there were, and you don't know whether it was a rogue decision by some local manager -- so because you don't know any of those things you have decided to MAKE UP the answers, and just make up that it was multiple people, make up that they were Israeli, and make up that they weren't just local managers going rogue, but that it was actually the whole Israeli government.
Do you even know you are lying? It seems you don't. It seems you think that making up stuff you don't know is "normal debating", and not just blatant lying, which is what it actually is.
Oh, but we do know one thing: The Israeli minister came out and said this was NOT an Israeli government policy. So even if the people doing this were Israelis, we know that they were doing something against the policy of the government. That we know, because that is in the article. We have confirmation from the minister that it was NOT a government policy.
You really will say any complete bullshit thing just to slander Israel, it really is just fucking pathetic.
First of all the article says that it's unknown who did this, whether they were Ethiopians or Israelis. We just don't know. So you sure as hell can't just make up a claim that it was Israel--that's just you engaging in a fantasy and pretending your fantasy is real.
Second you don't really know if it involved multiple people. It might have. It might have been one doctor, running around putting this on everybody's file, and everybody else just giving out the medications indicated on file. You can say what you think might be more or less likely, but you don't know.
Third even if there were a couple of people involved--and even if one of them was managing the others--that does not make it government policy of whichever government, Israeli or Ethiopian, those people worked for. Others on the thread have given you other examples of where some local deputy took it upon himself to do something illegal, that totally violated government policy, in Canada. The same can happen in any country, and when it does, it is not government policy--it is a crime committed by some local deputy who violated the policy.
You don't know who did this, you don't know how many there were, and you don't know whether it was a rogue decision by some local manager -- so because you don't know any of those things you have decided to MAKE UP the answers, and just make up that it was multiple people, make up that they were Israeli, and make up that they weren't just local managers going rogue, but that it was actually the whole Israeli government.
Do you even know you are lying? It seems you don't. It seems you think that making up stuff you don't know is "normal debating", and not just blatant lying, which is what it actually is.
Oh, but we do know one thing: The Israeli minister came out and said this was NOT an Israeli government policy. So even if the people doing this were Israelis, we know that they were doing something against the policy of the government. That we know, because that is in the article. We have confirmation from the minister that it was NOT a government policy.
You really will say any complete bullshit thing just to slander Israel, it really is just fucking pathetic.
The article does say that it started in transit camps in Ethiopia, which were aided by Israel, but it doesn't say who started it there, its true. But its also true that Israel took part in the camps.Keep lying troll, you are just making stuff up left right and center.
First of all the article says that it's unknown who did this, whether they were Ethiopians or Israelis. We just don't know. So you sure as hell can't just make up a claim that it was Israel--that's just you engaging in a fantasy and pretending your fantasy is real.
The documentary makes it very clear that it continued in Israel, occurring over 8 years.
And as for this quote from you:
That is a lie, the Israeli minister came out and told health organizations to stop doing this, he did not make a statement about whether or not it was an official policy, according to these reports.Oh, but we do know one thing: The Israeli minister came out and said this was NOT an Israeli government policy.
"I believe there is a deliberate targeting of these women," said Hedva Eyal, project coordinator at a women's rights research group in Haifa.
Ms Eyal and other activists say the birth rate in the Ethiopian community has halved in the past 10 years. Her group is one of six that asked the Israeli health ministry to clarify the use of the drug Depo-Provera among Ethiopians.
In response, the ministry urged gynaecologists "not to renew prescriptions for Depo-Provera for women" of any background if there was concern they might not understand its side effects.
The drug, which is given by injection every three months, is considered by many doctors as a birth-control method of last resort because of problems treating its side effects.
The ministry's response did not indicate whether explicit policy guidelines had been authorised or how long government-funded health facilities have been administering the drug to the Ethiopian women, or to how many.
In 2009, Ms Eyal supervised a study that showed 57 per cent of all Depo-Provera users in Israel were Ethiopian although their community comprised less than 2 per cent of the population.
Medical staff have pressured women to take the contraceptive at Israeli-linked transit centres inside Ethiopia that prepare them for immigration to Israel, according to a report last month by Israel Educational Television.
Eight years ago, the report said, officials at the centres threatened to deny an unspecified number of applicants entry into Israel if they refused the drug.
At the time of the 2009 study, Ms Eyal described the drug's use as part of an "unspoken policy" in Israel that aimed to reduce "the number of births in a community that is black and mostly poor".
Many Ethiopian women appeared unaware of the side-effects associated with Depo-Provera and alternatives to it, such as pill-form contraception, she said.
Allegations of racism have been an issue not only among Ethiopian Jews but also the 60,000 African migrants and asylum seekers in Israel. Dozens of asylum seekers were injured by scores of rioting Israelis in Tel Aviv in May, encouraged by politicians who fanned passions with fiery speeches against illegal Sudanese and Eritreans in the city.
Miri Regev, a politician from the ruling Likud party, told the crowds asylum seekers were a "cancer in our body".
Israel is building a large detention facility in the Negev desert to house Africans, who are routinely denied refugee status despite fleeing war zones and despotism.
Complaints of official discrimination against Ethiopian Jews came to a head in 2006 when it emerged publicly that blood donations from the community had been routinely disposed of for fear of disease. They also complain of discrimination in jobs and education.
Read more: http://www.thenational.ae/news/worl...ing-birth-control-on-ethiopians#ixzz2UDSfc3v4
Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook
Nothing supports your lie that the minister confirmed it was government policy. You made that up.
What happened in Israel is that whatever prescriptions they were taking were simply continued.
Israeli government policy was to bring these people to Israel, and the Israel government spent enormous funds on that If Israel didn't want them or could just have not brought them over.
If there actually was someone discrimination against them, it was at some local level, not the intention if the government.
You ALWAYS get caught in these kinds of lies, you reallyshould learn to watch yourself.
What happened in Israel is that whatever prescriptions they were taking were simply continued.
Israeli government policy was to bring these people to Israel, and the Israel government spent enormous funds on that If Israel didn't want them or could just have not brought them over.
If there actually was someone discrimination against them, it was at some local level, not the intention if the government.
You ALWAYS get caught in these kinds of lies, you reallyshould learn to watch yourself.
There's the lie that you've caught yourself in.If there actually was someone discrimination against them, it was at some local level, not the intention if the government.
You ALWAYS get caught in these kinds of lies, you reallyshould learn to watch yourself.
It happened in transit camps in Ethiopia and then again in Israel with the same people who were given contraceptives against their will.
What kind of prescription is given against the will of anyone?
How can it be local government when it happened in two countries?
As you have highlighted, given the wealth of experience and significant roles these individuals have played within the PA, they are most certainly senior figures.So if you read the article you actually learn that it is a paper by some tiny, unimportant study group and guess what...no current Fatah officials are involved:
"Most of the participants behind the initiative are identified with Fatah; a minority are members of other organizations in the PLO. They include Fatah member Radi Jarai, the former deputy director for prisoner affairs; Munir Abushi, the former governor of Salfit; and Prof. Uri Davis from the department of Israel studies at Al Quds University. When asked by Haaretz whether the intention was for “one state of the Palestinian people and members of the Jewish religion and others,” Davis responded that members were still discussing different concepts and definitions, and that he personally supports “one state for two peoples.”
Yeah...a misleading headline.
Sure these clowns are going to change the world.
Gryph you are funnier than ever.
Here is some good coverage that I bet Gryph missed:
http://blogs.forward.com/jj-goldberg/176942/whos-touting-a--state-plan-fatah-guess-again/
Here is what Fatah thinks of your article Gryph:
you are groggy must be holding hands together in make believe land.
You really do hate Abbas don't you?
What a nice way to finish my day.
All that happened in Israel is that their existing treatment automatically continued and nobody took the time to question it or explain it properly.There's the lie that you've caught yourself in.
It happened in transit camps in Ethiopia and then again in Israel with the same people who were given contraceptives against their will.
What kind of prescription is given against the will of anyone?
How can it be local government when it happened in two countries?
Yes, the Israeli policy of chemical sterilization continued from Israeli run transit camps to Israel itself. That is further proof that it was a deliberate policy that resulted in an intended 50% drop in Ethiopian births.All that happened in Israel is that their existing treatment automatically continued and nobody took the time to question it or explain it properly.
You are just lying.Yes, the Israeli policy of chemical sterilization continued from Israeli run transit camps to Israel itself. That is further proof that it was a deliberate policy that resulted in an intended 50% drop in Ethiopian births.
Ok, lets ask a few questions.All that happened in Israel is that their existing treatment automatically continued and nobody took the time to question it or explain it properly.
Its clear that the Ethiopian women weren't consulted.
So who told the Israeli doctors to continue this 'treatment' and why didn't they ask the Ethiopian women if they wanted it?
Sorry, lickspittle. The documentary evidence is unequivocal.You are just lying.
I gather that the illiteracy issues are why the Ethiopian women got poor consultations in Israel and that the medical system should have done a better job coping with that. However there is nothing malicious or discriminatory in that.Ok, lets ask a few questions.
Its clear that the Ethiopian women weren't consulted.
So who told the Israeli doctors to continue this 'treatment' and why didn't they ask the Ethiopian women if they wanted it?
Somebody in Ethiopia started them on these contraceptives for some unknown reason. Maybe a belief that a camp was not a good place to have birth, which would be well intentioned, but clearly failed to properly communicate that. But then the treatment continued ok and perhaps no one intended that.
The real story is that the system did not have proper care to period with literacy challenges.
The rest is unknown.
Sorry, lickspittle. The documentary evidence is unequivocal.I gather that the illiteracy issues are why the Ethiopian women got poor consultations in Israel and that the medical system should have done a better job coping with that. However there is nothing malicious or discriminatory in that.
Somebody in Ethiopia started them on these contraceptives for some unknown reason. Maybe a belief that a camp was not a good place to have birth, which would be well intentioned, but clearly failed to properly communicate that. But then the treatment continued ok and perhaps no one intended that.
The real story is that the system did not have proper care to period with literacy challenges.
The rest is unknown.
But your fawning explanation does burnish your lickspittle credentials:
Definition of LICKSPITTLE
: a fawning subordinate : toady
Synonyms
apple-polisher, bootlicker, brownnoser, fawner, flunky (also flunkey or flunkie), sycophant, suck-up, toady
In fact the documentary evidence is entirely equivocal. It says right in the link Groggy provided that nobody knows whether it was an Israeli or an Ethiopian action.
You are just blatantly lying, because you're a hate troll. You add absolutely nothing to this forum -- in fact your sputtering spewing hate just distracts the adults from more serious discussion.
You are just blatantly lying, because you're a hate troll. You add absolutely nothing to this forum -- in fact your sputtering spewing hate just distracts the adults from more serious discussion.
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I don't understand the logic of a one state solution. Surely if you could draw just one lesson from the last 70 years or so, it would be that the Arabs don't want to be dominated by the Jews and the Jews don't want to be dominated by the Arabs. A single state would be victory for one side, not an accepted peace.
Personally I think a three state solution makes sense: Gaza, West Bank and Israel. Then you don't have the complications of reconciling Hamas and the PA, getting two very different organizations to agree to a single set of terms at the same time, and the need for a land corridor disappears. Politically it's probably impossible, but it's worth a thought.
Personally I think a three state solution makes sense: Gaza, West Bank and Israel. Then you don't have the complications of reconciling Hamas and the PA, getting two very different organizations to agree to a single set of terms at the same time, and the need for a land corridor disappears. Politically it's probably impossible, but it's worth a thought.
Most people just want to live in peace and not have to worry about this kind of crap.I don't understand the logic of a one state solution. Surely if you could draw just one lesson from the last 70 years or so, it would be that the Arabs don't want to be dominated by the Jews and the Jews don't want to be dominated by the Arabs. A single state would be victory for one side, not an accepted peace.
.
The fact that Palestinians have lived relatively peacefully inside of Israel with full rights while those deprived continue to rebel against oppressive rule shows its really about just being able to live a decent life with freedom and opportunities.
A one state solution is the best way to fulfill that goal.
