A 1% tax for transit

[The Options Menu]

I thought about this and I wondered how many who voted NO are 905'ers and drive everywhere they go and so to them, it's a question of funding something that they don't use, so "fuck you, I don't want to pay for it".

I actually voted 'no', despite loving the idea of a dedicated transit expansion tax-- In my case I'd much rather have it as a property tax surcharge on large / above average / above the median size properties. That would target the burbs around the city, who want transit but mess up the density needed to provide decent transit, and the wealthy (on big lots) closer to the core. I also thing a GTA only sales tax would encourage math challenged suburbanites to spend more time and money to drive to save that 1% (harming GTA businesses and only encouraging more congestion). I'd also be for a province wide 1% sales tax that filtered directly back to transit providing towns and cities on a proportional basis as that would be more work to dodge.

 

[OddSox]

One solution certainly would be to give the city, which does a lot of road building, a share of the gas tax--but try getting the Federal and Provincial levels to agree to that.

Laws could change that. Couldn't the city simply add a gas tax equal to what it spends on roads?

OTB[/QUOTE]

Nice idea but...http://www.toronto.ca/gastaxworks/

Toronto entered into the Canada-Ontario-Association of Municipalities of Ontario-Toronto Agreement for the Transfer of Federal Gas Tax Revenues in July 2005. The agreement was extended as part of the Building Canada Plan until 2014.
Toronto will receive $1,024,698,448 from the GTF between 2005 and 2014. Canada transfers funds directly to Toronto in semi annual instalments (July 1st and November 1st) after receiving Toronto's audited annual expenditure report.
This funding has been used for the:

• purchase of replacement buses,
• purchase of 360 Toronto Rocket subway cars,
• purchase of Wheel Trans buses,
• purchase of Light Rail Transit vehicles, and
• modification of the Wilson Car House.

 

[OddSox]

I actually voted 'no', despite loving the idea of a dedicated transit expansion tax-- In my case I'd much rather have it as a property tax surcharge on large / above average / above the median size properties. That would target the burbs around the city, who want transit but mess up the density needed to provide decent transit, and the wealthy (on big lots) closer to the core. I also thing a GTA only sales tax would encourage math challenged suburbanites to spend more time and money to drive to save that 1% (harming GTA businesses and only encouraging more congestion). I'd also be for a province wide 1% sales tax that filtered directly back to transit providing towns and cities on a proportional basis as that would be more work to dodge.

I suspect the City would be a major screwup in terms of administering a city tax. On the other hand - taking 1% of the existing HST and dedicating it to transit instead of general revenues would be a great idea!

 

[james t kirk]

Lest we forget the the GTA pays about 20 billion more in taxes to the federal government and the Ontario government than it ever gets back in the form of taxes spent in the region.

If we could only keep that tax that we already pay for just ONE YEAR, imagine the transit system we could have.

 

[onthebottom]

Laws could change that. Couldn't the city simply add a gas tax equal to what it spends on roads?

OTB

Nice idea but...http://www.toronto.ca/gastaxworks/[/QUOTE]

How would this negate Toronto's ability to add a city component to the gas tax to pay for road development and maintenance?

OTB

 

[simon482]

as i said earlier. i am sure the gov't collects enough taxes, what is needed is more accountability for what they spend it on.

 

[OddSox]

Nice idea but...http://www.toronto.ca/gastaxworks/

How would this negate Toronto's ability to add a city component to the gas tax to pay for road development and maintenance?

OTB[/QUOTE]

It wouldn't - I was responding to the first half of your comment...

One solution certainly would be to give the city, which does a lot of road building, a share of the gas tax--but try getting the Federal and Provincial levels to agree to that.

However, I don't believe the city could administer a separate tax efficiently.

 

[fuji]

Couldn't the city simply add a gas tax equal to what it spends on roads?

OTB

People would buy gas outside the city then drive on city roads. Easier to get them with a sales tax.

If the federal level would share the gas tax with municipalities that would work. Last mayor of Toronto tried to get that done but was turned down.

 

[fuji]

Good thing trucks are not the only vehicles paying fuel tax then. Should drop that time frame of yours quite a bit.

Not really, the fact is the gas tax isn't used to pay for roads and wouldn't be enough money if it was.

For starters it is a federal tax while roads are primarily a provincial and municipal expense.

 

[simon482]

Not really, the fact is the gas tax isn't used to pay for roads and wouldn't be enough money if it was.

For starters it is a federal tax while roads are primarily a provincial and municipal expense.

okay. so taxes are not used properly. gov't should be held more accountable. should i say it a 4th time ?

 

[colt]

i would hardly consider a low estimate of 1.2 million a year to be fuck all

In the context of the costs of road construction 1.2 million really is "fuck all". I am pretty sure that is right around the cost to construct 1 km of paved highway.

 

[MyHobbyist]

There is a campaign afoot to have Toronto (and presumably the whole GTA) impose a 1% sales tax to be used exclusively to fund transit initiatives, specifically a new East/West subway line.

Yay or nay?

YAY... fuck ya!

 

[simon482]

In the context of the costs of road construction 1.2 million really is "fuck all". I am pretty sure that is right around the cost to construct 1 km of paved highway.

that is a low estimate based on an estimate of trucks from ontario only. ifta says that more trucks pay fuel tax as well. that also doesn't include the permits and licensing that we have to pay extra that cars don't have to pay.

 

[fuji]

okay. so taxes are not used properly. gov't should be held more accountable. should i say it a 4th time ?

Maybe government spending on roads is inefficient, but why should other people pay for inefficiencies on the service you use, instead of you?

Including all the inefficiencies, gas prices probably need to double or triple to cover the extent to which other people subsidize your road use.

 

[simon482]

Maybe government spending on roads is inefficient, but why should other people pay for inefficiencies on the service you use, instead of you?

Including all the inefficiencies, gas prices probably need to double or triple to cover the extent to which other people subsidize your road use.

how about the gov't just does responsible spending and there are more than enough tax dollars collected now. also your public transit uses my roads, so you should pay more.

 

[fuji]

how about the gov't just does responsible spending and there are more than enough tax dollars collected now. also your public transit uses my roads, so you should pay more.

Sure, I agree, in the meantime you are mooching.

 

[simon482]

Sure, I agree, in the meantime you are mooching.

and so are you. except my truck provides a service.

 

[james t kirk]

and so are you. except my truck provides a service.

How do you know that Fuji is not a doctor and provides a MORE valuable service than your stupid truck?

 

[simon482]

How do you know that Fuji is not a doctor and provides a MORE valuable service than your stupid truck?

cool story, bro.

 

[fuji]

and so are you. except my truck provides a service.

All the while you are mooching, you're complaining that others should pay their own way. Hilarious!