Train Wreck Via Rail derailment in Aldershot/Burlington

[james t kirk]

My condolences to the families of the deceased.

It was reported that the train was switching tracks at the time. The train event recorder has been removed so they'll be looking at the data.

If he was switching tracks at the time, that means that he either hit the switch too fast or the switch was broken.


With 3 guys in the cab, it could be that there was too much chitter chatter and that the driver was distracted. He misses the signal light ahead of the switch telling him to slow down for the switch and blows through at 90 mph and derails.

Conversely, he does see the switch, he slows to 15 to 25 mph depending on the geometry of the track (and the signal) but the switch is broken and he derails.


Thing is, if he derailed at 15 mph, there would not have been so much damage (or so you would think). It's not a freight train. It's a VIA Train and they are much lighter.

So if he was indeed switching, or scheduled to switch, then he missed the signal telling him to slow down and he blew through the switch at full speed.

 

[GameBoy27]

One of the three employees was in training. It could have been switching the tracks at the wrong time as jtk suggested, but it could also have been that the switch from one track to another was not fully engaged causing the derailment. All speculation at this point but I'm sure they'll figured out what caused it.

 

[james t kirk]

The train's black box will know exactly how fast it was going and at what point it derailed.

The position of the switch will be known from Rail Traffic Control, as well as what the signal was reading at the time.

The TSB will figure it out. Probably already have. (But they won't release the report for a year.)

 

[Keebler Elf]

Why not just wait for the investigation and find out what happened then? What's all the speculation going to achieve? (nothing)

 

[rhuarc29]

Problem is that you are NOT in control of much when you are on a public road, with other drivers.

Yeah, unfortunately that's true. However, I've almost been in a major collision twice and both times I was able to take evasive action. The one time the other driver just wasn't paying attention and ran me off the 401 and the other she froze up turning left at an intersection right in front of me in the rain. So even when other drivers are idiots, you atleast have some control over how things play out.

 

[nottyboi]

Based on the damage I am expecting human error. There is no way all that happened at 15 mph. Mechanical error is possible (frozen switch or something) but that stillbwould have thrown a signal.

 

[nottyboi]

So HOF, how was your commute this morning?

Can't speak for hot....but my drive was great today....

 

[FatOne]

I only know one person who takes that route and she takes the bus, so I can't say I care much either.
Today about 300 000 people died give or take a bit. I don't know anyone on that train, why should I care more than some poor bastard breathing out his last in a palliative care unit which happens in Ontario pretty much constantly. Just because it makes it into the news. Don't be so easily manipulated people.

 

[GameBoy27]

Cause of derailment was human error, speeding. Train was travelling over 4 times the limit for that crossover. People should have no problem collecting on that class action lawsuit!

 

[dcbogey]

according to this report, there was no voice recorder present.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...times-faster-than-speed-limit/article2355102/

"Mr. Griffith said Thursday they do not know why the train was speeding and said the continuing probe is being hampered by the lack of voice-recorders in locomotives, renewing a TSB call for this feature.

The investigator said they did not know who was at the controls at the time of the crash and suggested that, without a voice-recorder, they might never know. But he said it wasn’t relevant to the investigation.

He would not say that human error was to blame but, in response to reporters’ questions, noted even if the throttle was stuck there was a way to kill power."

 

[GameBoy27]

You would think that with 60 years experience between two of the three engineers and presumably they'd traveled that route a bunch of times they would have know the speed limit in that area. 4 times the speed limit is a gross error. Think of going 4 times the limit on public roads. The third engineer was in training but you'd figure he'd be supervised, maybe not.

 

[Aardvark154]

The third guy was a Via trainee but was an experienced freight train locomotive engineer.


Gotta be more to it than all three guys being in a rush. Maybe just talking and missing the signal?
But these switches can be complex and can fail in many ways

Given the circumstances, my speculation is that this turns out to involve either a signal or switch error. e.g. they were traveling faster than they should because the signal was wrong or the switch was thrown late or thrown after the engine started over it.

 

[danmand]

Given the circumstances, my speculation is that this turns out to involve either a signal or switch error. e.g. they were traveling faster than they should because the signal was wrong or the switch was thrown late or thrown after the engine started over it.

It is a bit puzzling to me what can have happened. The train stops in Aldershot (I take it from there) on the way to Toronto, and the distance to the accident site is only about 2 km. The engineers must have put the pedal to the metal to get to 65 m/hr.

 

[danmand]

More info:

"The switch involved in the accident is one that is "very rarely ever used," and requires the train to slow to 15 mph instead of the usual 45 mph."Because of other train movements in the area, they had to use this switch, which is still legal, but is a much slower switch than most crossovers," Griffith said.
Still, he added, the signal indication would have been yellow, telling the engineers that they had to reduce the speed to 15 mph.
Two people with 30 years of experience shouldn't have been travelling at that speed, at that location, at that time, Griffith said.


They should have gotten the signal about a mile-and-a-half, or 2.4 kilometres, before the switch, early enough "that if they wanted to slow down, they could have slowed down," he said."

Even more puzzling. 2.4 km would appear to be before the Aldershot station.

 

[Aardvark154]

Even more puzzling. 2.4 km would appear to be before the Aldershot station.

Oh, Oh, Oh, that may explain it right there if that is true.


That is exactly what happened in 1996 near Silver Spring, Maryland when MARC commuter train 286 which had made a station stop at Kensington, Maryland struck Amtrak's Capitol Limited head on. The signal block was before the station and apparently the MARC engineer forgot that it was on Approach rather than Clear after having made the station stop and accelerated out of the station and then was unable to stop in time when he reached the stop signal.

 

[ctv250]

Even more puzzling. 2.4 km would appear to be before the Aldershot station.

It is less than than 2.4 km and it makes you wonder if it stopped at Aldershot? Aldershot is the normal stop for VIA, but I question if that train could get to 60 mph in less than 2 km? I think it must have been direct from Niagara Falls to Union if it was going that speed.

 

[danmand]

It is less than than 2.4 km and it makes you wonder if it stopped at Aldershot? Aldershot is the normal stop for VIA, but I question if that train could get to 60 mph in less than 2 km? I think it must have been direct from Niagara Falls to Union if it was going that speed.

No, the sunday train from Niagara Falls stop in Aldershot and leaves Aldershot at 3:25. The derailment happened at 3: 28.

 

[james t kirk]

If he was switching tracks at the time, that means that he either hit the switch too fast or the switch was broken.


With 3 guys in the cab, it could be that there was too much chitter chatter and that the driver was distracted. He misses the signal light ahead of the switch telling him to slow down for the switch and blows through at 90 mph and derails.

Conversely, he does see the switch, he slows to 15 to 25 mph depending on the geometry of the track (and the signal) but the switch is broken and he derails.


Thing is, if he derailed at 15 mph, there would not have been so much damage (or so you would think). It's not a freight train. It's a VIA Train and they are much lighter.

So if he was indeed switching, or scheduled to switch, then he missed the signal telling him to slow down and he blew through the switch at full speed.

I posted the above back at post 27.

The train sped through the switch because whoever was driving missed the flashing yellow signal light.

There are a couple of scenarios.

1. There were 3 drivers. One was training. 3 is unsual, so they were probably talking too much rather than concentrating on the task at hand and whoever was driving completely missed the flashing yellow telling him to reduce to 15 mph. This is most likely the case. The driver was distracted.

2. The 2 regular drivers have driven the VIA train over that route so many times that they know it like the back of their hand and they don't usually switch tracks at that location. Force of habit tells them it's straight ahead on the same track as always, but this time, Rail Traffic Control needed to switch him over to the siding track for whatever reason. They didn't figure that they would be switching tracks.

 

[nottyboi]

There is really no excuse for not having GPS autopilots on the train anymore. It is so easy to do with the available tech today.

 

[HOF]

Hey, my comment about the commute wasn't a shot at anyone and I should have stated that media were informing commuters to make other arrangements. So I can certainly understand the miscommunication and misinterpretation of my comment.

Yes, 3 men are dead and their families are devastated.

As it has been stated, it was their fault! 4x over the speed limit during a switch, that's great information for those 2 class action suits.

So dump all you want, I just don't give a shit.