Egypt Protests
- Thread starter Rockslinger
- Start date
Lebanon and Gaza are writing their own death sentences. Yes, in a democracy you get the government you deserve, and in bigoted, hate fueled places like Lebanon or Gaza that is really not a pretty sight. They're turning their countries into war-torn shit-holes and the only reason why is a public rhetoric of hate that causes them to prioritize the murder of their neighbours over their own well being.But what happens when they don't elect someone you like?
As in Lebanon now or Gaza?
yeah true kind of like how a certain Middle Eastern country has a hate filled foreign minister who is an immigrant from Moldava and a former club bouncer, who has the nerve to tell the indigenous people of the country to get out.Lebanon and Gaza are writing their own death sentences. Yes, in a democracy you get the government you deserve, and in bigoted, hate fueled places like Lebanon or Gaza that is really not a pretty sight. They're turning their countries into war-torn shit-holes and the only reason why is a public rhetoric of hate that causes them to prioritize the murder of their neighbours over their own well being.
Yeah but the USA doesn't want that. It wants to invade Iran, if Egypt turns towards Iran, oh oh. This USA plan of having a strong stand in the Middle East is going down.If Egypt implodes into a theocracy it will save the US a few billion a year in financial aid and shift the focus away from Israel needing to cut a deal with the Palestinians.
OTB
Not according to the WHO and the ICRC, they'll tell you that its Israel's illegal blockade that's turning Gaza inot a shithole.Lebanon and Gaza are writing their own death sentences. Yes, in a democracy you get the government you deserve, and in bigoted, hate fueled places like Lebanon or Gaza that is really not a pretty sight. They're turning their countries into war-torn shit-holes and the only reason why is a public rhetoric of hate that causes them to prioritize the murder of their neighbours over their own well being.
Lebanon's fall from being the 'Paris' of the middle east was not at the hand of Hizbollah.
My biggest concern is that the Muslim Brotherhood is well established opposition while the people that the pissed off educated middle class would vote for don't have much sway. If the Brotherhood gains control of the government what do you think the chance will be for those educated democratic parties to grow.They have never been allowed to run as an official party but as individual members, they got the most votes because they were the only alternative to protest against Mubarak and his regime. Given time and real democracy other alternatives will rise spanning the political spectrum. Also if the poor guy who votes for the Brotherhood gets a chance at social mobility, he will switch to a liberal party. We really have to stop with this condascending and meddling attitude in the West towards the Middle East. It is outdated colonialism and serves neither us or them.
Nope. That's not an accurate statement.Not according to the WHO and the ICRC, they'll tell you that its Israel's illegal blockade that's turning Gaza inot a shithole
Unfortunately entirely so. That there need to be changes in Egypt and that they are past due is a given. However, I am afraid that you are entirely correct about who will end up in control. Just look at the regular attacks upon Copts that have been going on for years as to the realities of how the average Egyptian actually thinks.My biggest concern is that the Muslim Brotherhood is well established opposition while the people that the pissed off educated middle class would vote for don't have much sway. If the Brotherhood gains control of the government what do you think the chance will be for those educated democratic parties to grow.
It's possible the Muslim Brotherhood could reform itself into a mainstream Islamist party. The Islamists are in power in Turkey and, for all their many problems, they've got a better government there than any of the Arab nations.
It really depends on whether they pull a Hamas and use democracy/revolution as an excuse to seize absolute power, or whether they respect the will of the Egyptian people and attempt to govern by consent.
Ideally the Egyptian army will take a cue from the Turkish army and act as a guarantor of an essentially secular state, allowing an Islamist party to govern, but only with assurances that Egypt will not be turned into a theocracy. That's not very democratic, but it would be a good way to transition to a democracy, for a country that really knows nothing whatsoever about it.
What actually happens is obviously hugely up in the air, and given that the Muslim Brotherhood has ties to Hamas, there are indeed reasons for concern.
It really depends on whether they pull a Hamas and use democracy/revolution as an excuse to seize absolute power, or whether they respect the will of the Egyptian people and attempt to govern by consent.
Ideally the Egyptian army will take a cue from the Turkish army and act as a guarantor of an essentially secular state, allowing an Islamist party to govern, but only with assurances that Egypt will not be turned into a theocracy. That's not very democratic, but it would be a good way to transition to a democracy, for a country that really knows nothing whatsoever about it.
What actually happens is obviously hugely up in the air, and given that the Muslim Brotherhood has ties to Hamas, there are indeed reasons for concern.
Really, though, I have to say:
Whatever the outcome, any Egyptian who loves his or her country at this moment should be out on the street joining those protests. If I were an Egyptian, I would get on the next plane to Cairo and join it. I'm not, so I won't, and those that do risk life and limb. But it's their moment, and I hope they seize it. The outcome may not be great, there are so many ways it could go wrong, but then neither is the status quo acceptable.
They do have a chance that this will lead to freedom.
Whatever the outcome, any Egyptian who loves his or her country at this moment should be out on the street joining those protests. If I were an Egyptian, I would get on the next plane to Cairo and join it. I'm not, so I won't, and those that do risk life and limb. But it's their moment, and I hope they seize it. The outcome may not be great, there are so many ways it could go wrong, but then neither is the status quo acceptable.
They do have a chance that this will lead to freedom.
Take a look at the opinion polls dr Kull presented to Congress in 2007: http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/2007_h/070517-kull.htmUnfortunately entirely so. That there need to be changes in Egypt and that they are past due is a given. However, I am afraid that you are entirely correct about who will end up in control. Just look at the regular attacks upon Copts that have been going on for years as to the realities of how the average Egyptian actually thinks.
Opinions of egyptiens
92% : Goal of the US is to weaken and divide Islam
91% : Approve of attacks on US troops
92% : Goal is to get US to withdraw forces from al islamic countries
The experience in the Middle East is not good. The Iranians got rid of one dictator in 1978 and look where it got them. The Americans got rid of one dictator in Iraq and Muslims are still killing Muslims in Iraq. Why does anyone think Egypt will be successful?The outcome may not be great, there are so many ways it could go wrong,
Your point Danmand is what other than that the "Arab man on the street" is pretty doggone stupid, and the Muslim Brotherhood is indeed a real threat?Take a look at the opinion polls dr Kull presented to Congress in 2007: http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/2007_h/070517-kull.htm
Opinions of egyptiens
92% : Goal of the US is to weaken and divide Islam
91% : Approve of attacks on US troops
92% : Goal is to get US to withdraw forces from al islamic countries
My point is that the american government is seen as the enemy, partly because it supported a massively corrupt and repressive regime.Your point Danmand is what other than that the "Arab man on the street" is pretty doggone stupid, and the Muslim Brotherhood is indeed a real threat?
You would have preferred the American government tried to undermine the Egyptian regime? What other regimes do you think the Americans should have overthrown?My point is that the american government is seen as the enemy, partly because it supported a massively corrupt and repressive regime.
The first is unfortunately an accurate statement, the second only partially so. Doubtless you remember the amazing Mossad Shark of a month or so agoMy point is that the american government is seen as the enemy, partly because it supported a massively corrupt and repressive regime.
What part of the secondThe first is unfortunately an accurate statement, the second only partially so. Doubtless you remember the amazing Mossed Shark of a month or so ago
is not true?My point is that the american government is seen as the enemy, partly because it supported a massively corrupt and repressive regime.
It is not that they don't believe it; rather that it is only part of the story - again as merely the latest example of Arab paranoia about the U.S., Israel etc. . . . Witness the amazing Mossad shark.
Or are you going to try to tell us that U.S. support for the Egyptian Government prompts statements such as "the goal of the US is to weaken and divide Islam."
Or are you going to try to tell us that U.S. support for the Egyptian Government prompts statements such as "the goal of the US is to weaken and divide Islam."
To all you guys supporting this revolution, you better hope when Mubarak is ousted some hardline Islamic party doesnt take over
