JSF F-35: Unable to meet Canada's needs and over priced

landscaper

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Interesting column, it assumes that NORAD does not exist in the air inderdiction role., ie. the Americans would not have the F22 available for continental defense against the updated fighters. The other thing is the fact that we need to be able to supoport ground troops with oru airforce. The capability may never be used but it does have to be there in case it is needed. In a perfect world we would have Raptors for air defence and Warthogs for ground support . Unfortunatly the world is not perfect and we need a compromise multirole aircraft.
 

Aardvark154

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Let's beat up this topic again. After all it has been what a whole month and a half since we last did so.
 

Mervyn

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It would be sweet to get some a-10's if we could. But it's seems it's been the policy of the canadian government for decades that buying new equipment for our military equates to being agressive and evil.
 

slowpoke

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Interesting column, it assumes that NORAD does not exist in the air inderdiction role., ie. the Americans would not have the F22 available for continental defense against the updated fighters. The other thing is the fact that we need to be able to supoport ground troops with oru airforce. The capability may never be used but it does have to be there in case it is needed. In a perfect world we would have Raptors for air defence and Warthogs for ground support . Unfortunatly the world is not perfect and we need a compromise multirole aircraft.
In other words, our continental defence will depend on the superiority of the American F22s (which they won't sell to us). Meanwhile, our own F35s will be more suited to expeditionary ground support and first strike applications halfway around the world. The authors of that article probably assumed we'd want fighters that we could actually use to defend ourselves if we were attacked. If the authors had known that we wanted second rate fighters that wouldn't do the job without the help of the Americans, I'm sure they'd have told us to just hire the Americans to protect us and to forget about maintaining our sovereignty.
 

nottyboi

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Interesting column, it assumes that NORAD does not exist in the air inderdiction role., ie. the Americans would not have the F22 available for continental defense against the updated fighters. The other thing is the fact that we need to be able to supoport ground troops with oru airforce. The capability may never be used but it does have to be there in case it is needed. In a perfect world we would have Raptors for air defence and Warthogs for ground support . Unfortunatly the world is not perfect and we need a compromise multirole aircraft.
The Americans are only planning to build 187 F-22's...where do you expect they will be based? It IS possible they have realized stealth is only a transitory technology and have secretly moved on to the next thing...I even hear rumblings the F-35 may be cancelled. It's a shame the Aussies are dumping their F-111's, the sheer capability of that platform is staggering really. Range/payload is just unreal. Its really a regional strategic bomber.
 

landscaper

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The Americans are only planning to build 187 F-22's...where do you expect they will be based? It IS possible they have realized stealth is only a transitory technology and have secretly moved on to the next thing...I even hear rumblings the F-35 may be cancelled. It's a shame the Aussies are dumping their F-111's, the sheer capability of that platform is staggering really. Range/payload is just unreal. Its really a regional strategic bomber.
187 F22's based at Elemndor alsaka hawaii florida , just out of curiosity what would we do with a strategic bomber that is 30 years out of date?
 

nottyboi

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187 F22's based at Elemndor alsaka hawaii florida , just out of curiosity what would we do with a strategic bomber that is 30 years out of date?
We don't need them but the Aussies do as they have air power issues. So when you say the F-111 is obsolete... what do you think of the B-52 that regularly saves the butts of our troops in Afghanistan? Bombers with a long loiter capability can now provide close air support using GPS bombs...which is why the US plan to keep the B-52 in service until 2040. The B-1 bomber is also built with the same technology as the FB-111. Of course sensors need to be upgraded, but the F-35 is really not very good as an interceptor. So unless we are planning to be involved in a lot of ground wars, it is not a great plane and it is NOT a defensive weapon. The US bases 36 f-22's in Alaska. If we are really depending on those... then there is an even STRONGER case for not buying F-35...
 

blackrock13

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187 F22's based at Elemndor alsaka hawaii florida , just out of curiosity what would we do with a strategic bomber that is 30 years out of date?


If your referring to the B-52, you say thanks as it flys overhead having done an end run of the enmies defenses and laid hellfire and brimstone on them. They do what they are designed to do.

As I see the f-35 fiasco is just a repeat of the Dart in the Defenbaker era. It's pure politics. Every time I hear LAURA Han speak in an interview i don't have to listen, just turn on replay and hear his words from the last 50 interviews. He's simply spouting 10 second sound bites laid down by Harper.

As I understand it the F-35 is only stealth capable, often spouted by the government as a main reason for the choice, yet it looses it stealth capability when it is armed with anything more than the most basic weapons package; certainly a lot less tha what I'd want to into battle with. No interviewers seem to press him on this.

The competition mention is nothing special and is a fine example of reverse engineering of a competition for something or somebody you want. i got introduce to this duringh my short career in the federal government and nothing has change one bit.

The real life roll of th new jet in Canada will be parol, locate and delay. The plane or pilots will not be expected to fight and turn back an attack from the nasty Ruskies or Red Chinese. I have no doubt that the Canadian pilots would put up a fight at a level that most Air Forces can only wish to do, but they will need help to defeat an attack and we all know where that help will come.

As far as the 'enemies will have better plane', it has been a time honoured practice that the major weapon suppliers never sell the best versionof their weapons with all the bells and whistles. They always sell a 'lite' version just incase the weapons get turned back on them.

It's pure political horse shite.

Enough for now
 

WoodPeckr

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Aardvark154

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However, the Eurofighter Typhoon has problems of its own such as the test pilot who was killed when the ejection seat fell out of his aircraft when he rolled it inverted.
 

WoodPeckr

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Being a test pilot has always been a risky job.
 

blackrock13

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However, the Eurofighter Typhoon has problems of its own such as the test pilot who was killed when the ejection seat fell out of his aircraft when he rolled it inverted.
That wouid be something to to see, especially from the pilot's viewpoint, but I'm not laughing.
 

landscaper

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In other words, our continental defence will depend on the superiority of the American F22s (which they won't sell to us). Meanwhile, our own F35s will be more suited to expeditionary ground support and first strike applications halfway around the world. The authors of that article probably assumed we'd want fighters that we could actually use to defend ourselves if we were attacked. If the authors had known that we wanted second rate fighters that wouldn't do the job without the help of the Americans, I'm sure they'd have told us to just hire the Americans to protect us and to forget about maintaining our sovereignty.
Well first off you are assuming that the authors of the report actually know what DND has dertermined to be our requirements. Not what they think our requirments should be. The F35 is an acceptable air supperiority fighter and can nold its own against most of the current and on the boards aircraft. The F22 is in its own league there is notheing cmparable and considering the cost there should not be.
Nowhere did I say the best use for the F35 is halfway around the world as a ground support fighter. I did say the capability was a requirement for our purposes. That requirment plus the probablility of getting in country development and manufacturing work for the aircraft and its subsystems has apparantly made it the best choice for the airforce.
As far as hiring the Americans goes, I am of the opinion that a Treaty that has served us well for the last 60 years is a useable piece of paper .
 

landscaper

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We don't need them but the Aussies do as they have air power issues. So when you say the F-111 is obsolete... what do you think of the B-52 that regularly saves the butts of our troops in Afghanistan? Bombers with a long loiter capability can now provide close air support using GPS bombs...which is why the US plan to keep the B-52 in service until 2040. The B-1 bomber is also built with the same technology as the FB-111. Of course sensors need to be upgraded, but the F-35 is really not very good as an interceptor. So unless we are planning to be involved in a lot of ground wars, it is not a great plane and it is NOT a defensive weapon. The US bases 36 f-22's in Alaska. If we are really depending on those... then there is an even STRONGER case for not buying F-35...
B52 aircraft can not operate in anything resembling a threat environment. They are slated to be retired in 2040 and the main payload is stand off cruise missiles not bombs, the B1 and B2 are the straggic bombers in use for actuall bombing. The B1 technology is 5 or 6 generations newer than the FB111 platform. And again the grounds support capability may never be needed but haveing it available is a requirement
 

landscaper

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However, the Eurofighter Typhoon has problems of its own such as the test pilot who was killed when the ejection seat fell out of his aircraft when he rolled it inverted.
They dropped the first toi test beds software problems.. It is an air superiority figter, short legs and non stealthy. Typical compromise in Europe, everybody gets to build a part all over the place by the lowest bidder
 

Mervyn

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I really think the real problem people have with the F-22's is that they are American made, and it's just a knee jerk reaction that we sold out whenever we make any deal with them (US)
 

nottyboi

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B52 aircraft can not operate in anything resembling a threat environment. They are slated to be retired in 2040 and the main payload is stand off cruise missiles not bombs, the B1 and B2 are the straggic bombers in use for actuall bombing. The B1 technology is 5 or 6 generations newer than the FB111 platform. And again the grounds support capability may never be needed but haveing it available is a requirement
Wow you are sooo out of it. B-52's drop mainly bombs...JDAMs to be precise. In a first strike mode they will use cruise missiles... so will the B-2's for that matter. B-1 and FB-111 were only developed a about 8 years apart.. which is why B-1 has many similar features. B-1 is MUCH slower then FB-111 as well. In todays world the sensors and weapons are far more important then the actual platform. Bombers only switch to low cost JDAMS after air superiority has been achieved, at which point the B-52 becomes the lowest cost means of delivering the goods. It is also the most reliable bomber in US inventory today.
 
Ashley Madison
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