The way to beat Harper

[Rachel Uchitel]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/100128/canada/canada_us_politics_poll_62

1. Pounce on his mistakes. Better yet, motivate the press to pounce on his mistakes. Prorogue is a word Canadians didn't need to know about. "Re-calibrate" - another term that presents opportunities.

2. Take high road political stances. Announce that the various political watchdogs will be given true independence and greater authority. This might come back to bite you in power, but, it's the morally correct thing to promise.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/756379--stop-muzzling-watchdogs-liberals-say

3. Focus on job creation.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/100127/business/politics_ott_liberals_job_proposals100128_7

4. Talk about the economy and express concern for a budget that used to be balanced.

5. Don't react - just laugh - when Harper barks.

This is the recipe for success. It's really an old game plan. We'll see if Ignatieff can stick to it. And if so, we'll see if it works.

 

[onthebottom]

Is the liberal leader a realistic alternative?

Are his three job creation proposals what others on this board would call "corporate welfare"?

A thread about Canadian politics, interesting.... perhaps I can learn something.

OTB

 

[Rachel Uchitel]

1. Yes, but it's irrelevant to the post.
2. No, but could be relevant to the post.

 

[landscaper]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/100128/canada/canada_us_politics_poll_62

1. Pounce on his mistakes. Better yet, motivate the press to pounce on his mistakes. Prorogue is a word Canadians didn't need to know about. "Re-calibrate" - another term that presents opportunities.

And you think the media does not do that now?

2. Take high road political stances. Announce that the various political watchdogs will be given true independence and greater authority. This might come back to bite you in power, but, it's the morally correct thing to promise.

OK morally correct and Jack LAyton Micheal Ignatief all in the same sentence, interesting concept.

The party leaders don't care about morally correct they care about power, the coalition is just one example, the flips that seem to follow Ignatief around are another

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/756379--stop-muzzling-watchdogs-liberals-say

3. Focus on job creation.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/100127/business/politics_ott_liberals_job_proposals100128_7

4. Talk about the economy and express concern for a budget that used to be balanced.

These would be the same leaders who 8 months ago were screaming that the govt was not SPENDING ENOUGH MONEY FAST ENOUGH

5. Don't react - just laugh - when Harper barks.

This is the recipe for success. It's really an old game plan. We'll see if Ignatieff can stick to it. And if so, we'll see if it works.

A recipe for success indeed it is basic politics which none of the opposition leaders seem to be able to grasp in any way shape or form.

 

[Rachel Uchitel]

you might be right. We'll see.

 

[Aardvark154]

First you help take down Tiger, now you're trying to take down Harper - when will it stop!

.

 

[danmand]

First you help take down Tiger, now you're trying to take down Harper - when will it stop!

Two entirely different cases. One, she did for love.

 

[Rachel Uchitel]

Dude - I didn't take down Tiger! I shook him down. There's a difference. Wifey took him down.

 

[poker]

Ignatieff can't beat Harper, unless he self destructs at this point.

As soon as the Liberals elected their new leader, Conservative ads started painting him as a tax and spend kinda guy..... showing an unflattering picture to boot.

My SO, who knows nothing about the guy, or national politics at started explaining to me that he was a bad guy, and better not get in. Why, because you only know what ppl are telling you. The Liberals failed to build the guy up. Most of our country knows nothing about politics, but think they know the guys tax policies, and that he's only in Canada for personal gain. Its a fucking joke. He was done as leader before he even began. but that's Harper politics.

Its a shame too, as he is one smart fucking guy. I don't know if he'd be a great PM, but he'd be better than Harper.

don't get me wrong.... Harper is no idiot either. But he's sleazy. And we don't need Sleazy at the top.

 

[slowpoke]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/100128/canada/canada_us_politics_poll_62

1. Pounce on his mistakes. Better yet, motivate the press to pounce on his mistakes. Prorogue is a word Canadians didn't need to know about. "Re-calibrate" - another term that presents opportunities.

2. Take high road political stances. Announce that the various political watchdogs will be given true independence and greater authority. This might come back to bite you in power, but, it's the morally correct thing to promise.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/756379--stop-muzzling-watchdogs-liberals-say

3. Focus on job creation.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/100127/business/politics_ott_liberals_job_proposals100128_7

4. Talk about the economy and express concern for a budget that used to be balanced.

5. Don't react - just laugh - when Harper barks.

This is the recipe for success. It's really an old game plan. We'll see if Ignatieff can stick to it. And if so, we'll see if it works.

If Iggy can continue to make these kinds of positive proposals, he should have no trouble pulling well ahead of Harper. He also needs to avoid talking about elections and to abandon his "hectoring old man" style during question period. If he can pull that off, he will look more and more like a viable alternative. Then Harpo's numbers will really start to plummet. A large portion of Harper's earlier popularity was the result of Iggy's lack of cred and Dion's lack of just about everything. Against Dion, it was a no-brainer to prefer Harper. Against Iggy, Harper also looked like the better choice but only because Iggy was inexperienced and poorly managed. The addition of Peter Donolo has given the Libs their first decent game plan since Martin walked the plank.

It is interesting that Harper's support has continued to fall. Most pundits and pollsters thought the voters would soon forgive Harper for his detainee and prorogation fuck ups and then things would go back to "normal". But he's still firmly in the doghouse despite his good response to the Haiti disaster. This recent reluctance to forgive Harper may be the new normal. I certainly hope so.

 

[Brill]

The only reason that Harper will lose is because the Liberals have stopped stabbing their leader. Their old one ran on a policy of creating new taxes, obviously out of touch with half the party who sat on their hands and thus handed over the country to Harper.

Stephen won't be so lucky twice in a row.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Who will replace Harpo?

 

[slowpoke]

Ignatieff can't beat Harper, unless he self destructs at this point.

As soon as the Liberals elected their new leader, Conservative ads started painting him as a tax and spend kinda guy..... showing an unflattering picture to boot.

My SO, who knows nothing about the guy, or national politics at started explaining to me that he was a bad guy, and better not get in. Why, because you only know what ppl are telling you. The Liberals failed to build the guy up. Most of our country knows nothing about politics, but think they know the guys tax policies, and that he's only in Canada for personal gain. Its a fucking joke. He was done as leader before he even began. but that's Harper politics.

Its a shame too, as he is one smart fucking guy. I don't know if he'd be a great PM, but he'd be better than Harper.

don't get me wrong.... Harper is no idiot either. But he's sleazy. And we don't need Sleazy at the top.

So far, I think Harper's attempts to paint Iggy as a tax and spend interloper have failed. The few attack ads that Harper aimed at Iggy pretty much bounced off. Dion and his Green Shift were easy targets but the attack ads about Iggy were so contrived and superficial that they probably hurt Harper more than anyone. Meanwhile, Harper is spending like a drunken sailor and will want to avoid talking about big spenders or pointing fingers for the next decade or so.

Iggy's failure to connect with the public was more about the downward spiral of the Liberal party after sponsorship and Dion. Iggy's own lack of political experience, the rift within the Liberal party and idiotic management just added fuel to the fire. Iggy tried to force an election when nobody wanted one. He had no apparent platform, no dominant issue and probably insufficient funds. Iggy's not an idiot but he was allowed to look like one. That was just bad management.

Harper made his share of errors too but he covered well and he got away with them until now. Iggy hasn't been around for very long so his errors are few and relatively minor. People will forgive Iggy's rookie mistakes if he shows improvement and continues to be perceived as a decent, intelligent person of integrity and good intentions. Harper has more experience and has had lady luck on his side since sponsorship. But he's shown major character faults and a serious lack of judgement too many times. The voters may have finally locked onto Harper's flaws and this will make Iggy's resurrection much more feasible. All opposition leaders look like losers until the tide turns and people start wanting change. I think we're approaching that stage right about now.

 

[Possum Trot]

Hard to disagree with your basic points Rachel with the exception that I think the press is generally always been anti-Harper because he is poor at cultivating them. There doesn't seem to be a party capable at the present time to follow your suggestions though. I agree the poroque issue will die, I mean who remembers that Bob Rae was the king of poroquing the provincial legislature when he was Premiier. One could make an argument that Harpers drop in the polls is associated with him being publically arrogant as usual and Ignatief largely being muzzled finally rather than routinely putting his foot in it as he did for his first 9 months.

 

[Rachel Uchitel]

The handling of a leader is everything. There are few exceptions: Trudeau refused to be handled. Harper too refuses to be handled. Trudeau refused to be handled because he realized he was brighter than everyone else around hm. harper refuses to be handled because he realizes he's brighter than everyone else around him. The difference is the people around Harper are exceptionally unbright.

Prorogue will hurt Harper. It may not kill him but it will hurt him. Rae didn't add the term into the ordinary person's lexicon. Harper did. That will hurt.

Last point - Harper and Trudeau both loathed the press at times. Harper does this, though, out of political principle (which is stupid on his part). Trudeau did it out of intellectual disdain for muckraking questions.

 

[K Douglas]

I will say this. If Canadians end up electing the Liberals under either Ignatieff or Rae then I will conclude that, as a nation, we are a lost cause.

 

[Rachel Uchitel]

Hey K,

My that's a pompous thing to say.

 

[WoodPeckr]

I will say this. If Canadians end up electing the Liberals under either Ignatieff or Rae then I will conclude that, as a nation, we are a lost cause.

Sounds like you have serious problems with Democracy......

 

[poker]

So far, I think Harper's attempts to paint Iggy as a tax and spend interloper have failed. The few attack ads that Harper aimed at Iggy pretty much bounced off. Dion and his Green Shift were easy targets but the attack ads about Iggy were so contrived and superficial that they probably hurt Harper more than anyone. Meanwhile, Harper is spending like a drunken sailor and will want to avoid talking about big spenders or pointing fingers for the next decade or so.

Iggy's failure to connect with the public was more about the downward spiral of the Liberal party after sponsorship and Dion. Iggy's own lack of political experience, the rift within the Liberal party and idiotic management just added fuel to the fire. Iggy tried to force an election when nobody wanted one. He had no apparent platform, no dominant issue and probably insufficient funds. Iggy's not an idiot but he was allowed to look like one. That was just bad management.

Harper made his share of errors too but he covered well and he got away with them until now. Iggy hasn't been around for very long so his errors are few and relatively minor. People will forgive Iggy's rookie mistakes if he shows improvement and continues to be perceived as a decent, intelligent person of integrity and good intentions. Harper has more experience and has had lady luck on his side since sponsorship. But he's shown major character faults and a serious lack of judgement too many times. The voters may have finally locked onto Harper's flaws and this will make Iggy's resurrection much more feasible. All opposition leaders look like losers until the tide turns and people start wanting change. I think we're approaching that stage right about now.

A very intelligent response.....

Hmmmmm, how can I put this? Ever walk the floor of a call centre and listen to the endless rows of phone monkeys talk amongst themselves. Not saying anybody there is stupid, but it's not exactly a cess pool of political intellect. I firmly believe semi educated, well rounded ppl are in the minority. Well educated and together ppl are even less. That is why politicians can dumb down their arguments to "read my lips, no new taxes!"....... "flip flopper"..... "stay the course"...... Hope and Change..... Yes we Can. Its all most of the general pop take in, let alone remember.

My wife and many of the girls she works with firmly believe Ignatieff is a sell out for going down south, greedy for coming back.... and will tax us to death on gas. I think the damage has been done.

I think its still an uphill battle.

Cheers!

 

[Cinema Face]

if the opposition has an electable leader with an actuall platform then they might have a chance.

Until that day, dream on...