Mac or PC laptop

[djk]

Bottom line.

If time is money, get a Mac.

If your time valuable but not that valuable and you don't want to be alienated from the latest and greatest, get a Windows PC.

If you don't mind spending your free time figuring things out or you love figuring things out, go with Linux.

 

[WoodPeckr]

As to the $500 machine, sure it will do all he needs. Just like a Chevy Cavalier will do all you need. But a Lexus will do all you need with more luxury, design, reliability, quality etc.

We agree completely here!
Thanks for making my point by comparing the Cavalier to a Lexus.
This is the same way one can view the price differential between a PC and a Mac!...

And your 12 year old Pentium II? I'd like to see how fast it runs when you load and edit 10 megapixel images on it, let alone loading it up with my 12,000 iPhoto library (if you were able to run iPhoto on a PC, which you can't). That thing would be as slow as snail race, and would probably be as painful to watch as a naked BBW marathon!

True but I don't use/need if for that purpose. It requires a more powerful PC. However my laptop running x64 Ubuntu with 4GB of RAM will render them photos fine with NO pain and only cost $500!

Lastly, you claim that I sound like an Apple salesman. What do you call yourself then? You are just as fanatical about chiming in with your Linux comments as I am with Apple!

Just pointing out what Linux offers for FREE and how IMNSHO Linux out performs BOTH M$ & Mac for those who may want to be free of them both.

 

[WoodPeckr]

If you don't mind spending your free time figuring things out or you love figuring things out, go with Linux.

I've always been a curious sort and this applies well for me.
The more I use Linux the better it gets. Only wish I had tried it earlier.

 

[Hobbyer]

Bottom line.

If time is money, get a Mac.

If your time valuable but not that valuable and you don't want to be alienated from the latest and greatest, get a Windows PC.

If you don't mind spending your free time figuring things out or you love figuring things out, go with Linux.

Excellent.

 

[robycapone]

i just find it extremely funny that you NON-MAC users, who've never tried the technology, are constantly preaching the.. 1-year old compt is the slow end of the scale..amongst suggesting other things...

i had this very MACBOOK for 4 years now...the first generation of Intel-based Chips... all that was done was a batt replacement.. its been around the world several times (work on a cruise ship) been banged, dropped, pushed through airport to airport, ship to ship, port to port...

and im running SNOW LEOPARD, Adobe Photoshop CS4, final cut express 4 hd, Microsoft Offie 2008 nevermind mac-only apps like pages and keynote...and its not even a Macbook Pro..


its 4-years old!!! so dont give me that shit!!!!

I would suggest buying for something that will last, hassel-free... get the MAC...

 

[Never Compromised]

What do you want the computer to do? What programmes will you be running? How much do you have currently invested in software?

Getting a Macbook will give you the flexibility to run Windows if you absolutely have to.

Mac's tend to last longer and are better built than a budget PC.

 

[Mable]

Day 2 in my quest...

...to get a laptop.

First I would like to thank you guys for the VERY intelligent comments. Regardless of your position this is a good natured and spirited and educational discussion. Thank you. And it has helped.

When I said I was not a techie I did'nt realize how bad I really am! I got a pc and went to the Ubuntu website like some of you suggested and tried to download the free software. They made it sound so simple. No problem, right? NOT!! I could not even do that. After spending over an hour in disbelief, I stormed out of the room wondering if I am not really non est factum.

My time is valuable, very. Unfortunately, I am extremely curious about what I do not know. I want to learn but do not have access to people who know what they are doing and prepared to teach me. My frustration tolerance has been sorely tested trying to learn from the liturature but I find that it leaves alot out. Very difficult to understand for a non-techie. It may be that I have to bite my tongue and give up in this area.

I have found in my research that Goomer is right: comparable machines to the Mac Pro are indeed as expensive if not more. Yes I can get in to the laptop market by getting a Toshiba with intel T4200 or 4300, 4Gig ram, 320Gig hard drive, update to Windows 7, 801.11n, HDMI(?), 16in screen, full keyboard for $699 + tax. But even I can tell that the engineering does not compare to a mac, software or hardware. And I am still with windows. I guess the question to myself is, do I want (do not need) the Mercedes or do I get the chevy? Yor're right only I can answer. What I want to do is learn Linux/Ubuntu but that appears to be out of the question when I return to reality. The money is there for the Mac and I am leaning heavily to treating myself. I can satisfy my curiosity and learn a new system and maybe in the process rectify myself of some ignorance without too much frustration. Yup, it's the Mac!

Profound thanks for your input and offers of help (especially Goomer); your offer of help is truly exceptional.

P.S. This is also revealing: what is the difference between Linux and Unix? Are they interchangeable terms?

 

[OddSox]

P.S. This is also revealing: what is the difference between Linux and Unix? Are they interchangeable terms?

The terms are not interchangeable although they often are.

Unix was a multi-user operating system originally developed in 1969 for use on mainframes (which were all there was back then). Each computer manufacturer took the base Unix system and "improved" it in their own way to work on their own systems. Thus, you end up with a bunch of slightly different versions with various names such as AIX, SunOS, Solaris, BSD etc., and most of them were/are proprietary systems.

Linux was written in 1991 to be a free version of Unix for use on personal computers. It's "core" different than Unix but many of the functions and utilities are similar so that to the user it doesn't really seem that different - much like driving an motorboat vs a car.

The Unix that the Mac uses was based on the NEXT operating system which was based on BSD, which was based on the original Unix. The version of Unix on the Mac now is in turn quite a bit different than original Unix was...and the similarities between OS X and Linux are pretty much coincidental - something like the steering wheel in your car where every manufacturer does it that way because they haven't been able to come up with a better method...

...the above is a much simplified version of the actual story and may be inaccurate in places. If you're really interested, try http://www.google.com/search?client...ence+between+Linux+and+Unix&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

[WoodPeckr]

When I said I was not a techie I did'nt realize how bad I really am! I got a pc and went to the Ubuntu website like some of you suggested and tried to download the free software. They made it sound so simple. No problem, right? NOT!! I could not even do that. After spending over an hour in disbelief, I stormed out of the room wondering if I am not really non est factum.

Have you never downloaded anything before?

All you need do is go to the Ubuntu site and click on 'Download' Ubuntu 9.04.
1. Then the download of the ~700MB file begins.
2. Then burn that file as an ISO with the app they recommend and even offer as download, check it for errors and your good to go. They even 'walk you through each step' if needed.

Pop that CD you just made in your PC and run Ubuntu off it.

Or just order the free install Live CD from Ubuntu and 'Ship-it' will mail the CD to you if you don't want to download it.

You have to learn a new OS anyways and Ubuntu is just as easy to learn as Snow Leopard only it's free.

 

[Mable]

Found out that the disk I was using was defective. Got a new dvd and effected the download . Just been through what was provided. It seems great. Now I took the option of just downloading to the dvd with a burn. So I boot from the disk. Is this the full system or just a demo. The info seems to indicate that one needs to buy the disk they provide to get all the features. Or do I just download to "within windows" when I want the full system?? Will that prevent windows from ever booting again? I have so many questions! I will play for awhile and see what happens.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Yeah defective disks happen at times.....

You get 95% of the system running off the Live CD. It will run a little slower this way because you are running off the CD and not your HDD but you will see what Ubuntu is like.....kinda like taking a test drive of it.

You don't have to buy anything! When you install it you get 100% of the system.
Then you let Ubuntu 'update' itself automatically and your good to go.

You have 3 choices for install.
1. Full install, which wipes off Windows and replaces it completely with Ubuntu.
2. WUBI install, where it's added and runs inside of Windows as another program.
3. Dual Boot, which I recommend, where you set aside say a 20GB partition for Ubuntu leaving the rest to Windows. This way you have 2 OSs on your PC to choose from. This way when you boot up you can choose to run either M$ or Ubuntu.

Setting up a dual boot system is very simple now compared to a few years ago. You just move a 'slider bar' to select the size you desire for a Linux partition. 20GB is plenty of space to set aside but you can make it bigger or smaller as you wish. Once when I was pressed for Hard Drive space I put Ubuntu on a 6GB partition and it ran great with no problems. Just make sure you 'defrag' Windows just before you install Ubuntu to push Windows towards the front of your drive. Ubuntu will be installed towards the back of your drive.

Ubuntu installs quick, took 15 minutes on my $500 Toshiba laptop, that now costs $400!
Plug in your printer before the install and printer will be fully installed in that 15 minutes!
Then let Ubuntu 'auto update' itself and your good to go.

Firefox is your default browser and you can add more.
I added Opera, my fav and SeaMonkey which runs very nice.

 

[Mable]

Just finished playing for qwhile. I googled "ubuntu help site" and got an amazing amount of info. Then put it side by side with ubuntu and tried some things out: creating drawers etc. Fun and games! I love how you can customize the panels. The word processor is great! I'll play around abit more later today -- damn! got to get back to work. Stay tuned for a report. But I think I will install the program. Now I have never created a partition so what is obvious to you Woodpeckr is not to me. I have Vista Premium on my friends computer and will see what I can find out. This will be a good test to see if this will be more trouble than it is worth given my illiteracy in this area. Hope I don't accidently wipe our her hard drive or something -- that'll be the end of the nooky for while!!! Thanks for the help Woodpeckr. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Mable]

Just spent soe time trying to partition the HDD. Followed instructions to the point where I have to right click unallocated space. Coded green. But does not seem to be unallocated space. How could this be? I have 320G hard drive at least 250G free and there is no unallocated space? Could this be due to some idiot screwing up when he set it up? That is even though I have only 1 ops he used up all the space? There are also some other drives for the reader cards I think.

 

[WoodPeckr]

The Ubuntu Partitioner will show you the condition of your C Drive where Ubuntu will be installed. Right now it will show 100% going to Windows because you only have 1 OS. On C-drive, Windows will go on the front and Ubuntu on the back of C drive. Just move the slider bar to the left, to create a 20GB partition for Ubuntu, then leave the rest for M$.

 

[wollensak]

Ubuntu vs Windows

No-one should use Windows to access the Internet!! Imagine an operating system that is unsafe to use without the addition of third-party virus software that must be renewed yearly and frequently fails to protect the user against viruses, trojans and worms. That's Windows.

People faile to realize that the problem exists because Windows is a defective product.
By default, windows users are set up as an administrators. Windows, by default, enables scripting. It's a simple matter for a hacker to use your administrator permissions to run a script which loads and runs an exe file which can do whatever it likes to your machine and data. Your security is easily compromised when running Windows!

Ubuntu (Linux) partitions your hard drive when installed into three mutually exclusive partitions: swap, data and programs. Addtionally you are logged on by default as a non-administrator. Everything you download, whether consciously or not, goes to the data partition. NOTHING can be executed from the data partition!! In order to load programs to the Program partition you must be logged in as ROOT (Administrator). You will have a hard time loading viruses to your program partition, even if you want to, and only you can do so! May I ask why Microsoft refuses to protect users of it's operating system as Linux does ??

For the sake of personal security and privacy I encourage anyone to consider downloading Ubuntu as a dual-boot.

That way you can run your Windows only apps like Photoshop, ITunes etc and still be safe when Internet browsing.

 

[Mable]

Day 3....

I have read and reread the comments in this thread and have taken all to heart as everyone is really trying to help.

Question to Wollensac: You povided a very crisp and forceful arguement and reasoning as to why Windows should not be used to browse. Can you refer me to any liturature that can do as good a job explaining things like you? I am sorely in need of it. You say that when using Linux the downloaded stuff goes into the data partition and is isolated. Is this what happens when one downloads using a Mac? In the demo I saw the salesperson said all the downloads go to a "special file". I assume this is it. Being a non techie I was wondering how do you get it out ( I do not know what an exe file is).

I sat down at the computer last night for several hours going to help sites for Ubuntu. Lots of help BUT I noticed that many had severe problems just trying to download to their computer so they could dual boot. Some of the language and terms I ccould not begin to understand. While I now have more desire than ever to become a quasi-techie, I know I need some source (understandable) information. Not stuff written techie to techie. Any references?

I hate being at the mercy of the operating system I am using. I want to streamline it for my purposes and know what the fuck is going on. I almost took the plunge last night and attempted to download and install Ubuntu but I was on my girlfriends computer. I could feel it coming: GF: where are the pics I got from grandma last night, Dear? Me: What pics Dear? GF: Oh the ones I downloaded to my hard drive! Me: What hard drive Dear!!??

Anyway thanks for the comments and the help. I will continue but as you can see I am vascillating. The easiest way is to simply buy the Mac. Somehow I feel like I am giving up if I do that. And with the Mac I will be buying all kinds of stuff I would never use. Not that is bad but seems such a waste. I do know now there is no way I will get a windows laptop without a Linux system on it at the least. So I now have the issue: is that route reasonable. I can learn but the question is time.

 

[tboy]

Thanks for the responses so far. I forgot to ask one question though. Mac upsells 1-1 teaching for $100/yr and extended warranty and tech support for $300 for three years. Is is worth it? If the Mac is so good why all this need for extended warranty. Further the salesman said in his pitch that to replace the screen is a $1700 job!! Why? Computer screens are dirt cheap now especially after the last anti-trust case determined the resellers were artificially elevating the resale price of them. Thanks.

EXACTLY. I was in an Apple store (went in by mistake lol) and looked at the service area racks FULL of apple computers. I asked the tech: so you must be bored with Macs never breaking down or anything and he just snorted and laughed "yeah right" he said.

Sure, buy into the hype, but as someone stated: look into the economics: if you can buy two or three PC based laptops for the cost of ONE mac, you could effectively insure your lifelong purchase by having a backup LAPTOP instead of a backup hard drive.

As for not liking vista XP is still supported and will be so for years. Plus you have a new version of windows coming out shortly.

As for not using your computer to its fullest potential. Are you really into video production and editing? Are you REALLy into 3D cad engineering? 99% of people don't need a full bore balls to the wall hyper computer unless they are doing hi tech gaming or ??. For most daily use a P4 will do just fine. (which is what this computer is and it has been running fine for 6 yrs)

 

[Mable]

Yeh, Tboy, you make a good point. Like I said above, I am not a high end user so I am thinking it a waste to buy what I will not use. And I want to know how to USE my computer for what I need and protect myself.

 

[tboy]

...to get a laptop.

First I would like to thank you guys for the VERY intelligent comments. Regardless of your position this is a good natured and spirited and educational discussion. Thank you. And it has helped.

When I said I was not a techie I did'nt realize how bad I really am! I got a pc and went to the Ubuntu website like some of you suggested and tried to download the free software. They made it sound so simple. No problem, right? NOT!! I could not even do that. After spending over an hour in disbelief, I stormed out of the room wondering if I am not really non est factum.

My time is valuable, very. Unfortunately, I am extremely curious about what I do not know. I want to learn but do not have access to people who know what they are doing and prepared to teach me. My frustration tolerance has been sorely tested trying to learn from the liturature but I find that it leaves alot out. Very difficult to understand for a non-techie. It may be that I have to bite my tongue and give up in this area.

I have found in my research that Goomer is right: comparable machines to the Mac Pro are indeed as expensive if not more. Yes I can get in to the laptop market by getting a Toshiba with intel T4200 or 4300, 4Gig ram, 320Gig hard drive, update to Windows 7, 801.11n, HDMI(?), 16in screen, full keyboard for $699 + tax. But even I can tell that the engineering does not compare to a mac, software or hardware. And I am still with windows. I guess the question to myself is, do I want (do not need) the Mercedes or do I get the chevy? Yor're right only I can answer. What I want to do is learn Linux/Ubuntu but that appears to be out of the question when I return to reality. The money is there for the Mac and I am leaning heavily to treating myself. I can satisfy my curiosity and learn a new system and maybe in the process rectify myself of some ignorance without too much frustration. Yup, it's the Mac!

Profound thanks for your input and offers of help (especially Goomer); your offer of help is truly exceptional.

P.S. This is also revealing: what is the difference between Linux and Unix? Are they interchangeable terms?

1) make sure you compare apples (pun intended) to apples and not apples to oranges. If you're comparing a big powerful mac to a bargain basement PC, then sure, the engineering might not by up to the same level. As someone stated: that's like comparing a cavalier to a lexus.
2) If you want a true comparison go out and look at a COMPARABLE PC based laptop. They are out there. There are some $4500.00 laptops.
3) A hard drive is a hard drive. I have some that have been spinning almost constantly for 10 yrs and no fail yet. So maybe your apple hard drive which is engineered "better" will last 15 yrs. But at double or triple the price.
4) Macs don't crash...BULL fucking SHIT they don't. I have used both PCs and Macs and the Macs crashed more often than the PCs.

Macs VS PC: I will give credit where credit is due. Sorry, I won't give Macs credit for being "better" than PCs. Yes, windows O/S is vulnerable to virus' but that is very easily overcome.

As for thier "intuitive" nature. I had some mac users in my building. One bought (I think it was) an external hard drive. She was on the phone with Mac support for 6 hrs trying to get it to work. My neighbour on the other side bought a seagate external USB drive. She plugged it in and was backing up files in 2 minutes (it would have been quicker but she had to take the packing to the recycle bin).

On the final note: Price. I built a media center PC that is powerful, fast, can do just about anything, play video games smoothly, play BR discs, etc etc. it cost me $400.00. A comparable Mac was $1800 (I think that was what the price came out to be, I know it was over $1500).

Finally, and I use this comparison often:

You need to get from front st to Yonge and Bloor.
You can take the bus for $2.50
You can take a cab for $8.00
You can buy a toyota matrix for $20K
or
You can buy a bugatti veyron for $1,000,000.00 US.

What do you want to do?

 

[tboy]

Hey, just thought of another good comparison:

I used to own a fairly large boat (30'). I had to do maintenance on it and if you go to the posh marine "chandlery", rub shoulders with your fellow "yachtsmen" you can find all kinds of posh fittings, screws, rope and you will pay through the nose for them. (for eg: $1.25 for ONE SS #8 wood screw).

Or you can buy the items from Canadian Tire for about 1/10th the price.

3/4" nylon braid marine rope is 3/4" nylon marine braid rope.
#8 SS wood screw is a SS wood screw.
Castrol GTX oil: $5.00 at the marine store, $2.25 at Canadian tire.

If you want to buy into the "elite" poo poo mac group, knock yourself out.

Me? I'd rather save my money and do other things with it. Like buy software, have a nice dinner, be able to buy stuff ANYWHERE (not just at the posh mac stores), be able to get it serviced anywhere, etc etc.