Leica V-Lux 1 digital camera

markvee · Dec 6, 2006

I`m thinking of buying this camera as a Xmas gift.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Leica_V_Lux_1/4505-6501_7-32077813.html?subj=fdba&part=rss&tag=MR_Search+Results

It for sale at Vistek for $1,049.00.

http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=227867&CategoryID=DigitalCameras

I noticed that Sheik mentioned that Vistek is overpriced.

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=137394

Is there a camera store in Toronto or Ottawa or vicinity where I can get a better price.

Alternative recommendations (camera and store) are also appreciated. I am looking for a 10MP camera with minimum 8x optical zoom, VGA movie capability (640 x 480), and RAW image format.

Thanks in advance.

monkeychan · Dec 6, 2006

Just FYI:

Leica V-Lux 1 is identical to Panasonic's DMC-FZ50. Heck, the V-Lux 1 is manufactured by Panasonic.

Whether it's worth the difference in price, only you can answer.

From personal experience, you'll get better overall picture quality from buying a Rebel XT and Sigma 18-125 lens (better dynamic range, better noise control, option to change to better lenses should you choose to do so).

PS: yes I understand that XT is "only" 8mp and doesn't have video capture but an 8 mp on a dSLR will beat the hell out of any point and shoot cameras.

Damondean · Dec 6, 2006

Your link is hardly a glowing review. The camera has a 2.1 sec time lag--time between pressing the shutter button and actiuvating the shutter. As mentioned, the Panasonic is identical except for the name plate.

I read on some photog boards that the camera has a lot of "noise" at the higher ASA numbers.

The new Nikon D80 is worth checking out. Personally, I like the new Canon G7.
Spend a little more and get a Canon D30.

But it depends on what you plan to do with the camera.

Juldet · Dec 6, 2006

Don't Forget Fuji

My 6 megapixel 4 year old Fuji S602 rivals everything I have seen on the market Canon Sony etc etc. Why people overlook it I don't know i guess not enough marketing. 640-480 30 frames per sec for movies. Whatever has replaced this camera...buy it. The megapixels means nothing past 6 megapixels anyway unless you want to print poster sized pictures. the lens and processor in the camera is everything. This camera can also shoot 5 frames in a second.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/F602/F62A.HTM

Here is a video review (some British TV Show) of point and shoot pocket cameras that reveals how good a Fuji compares to other brands....worth looking at just to see that Fuji lenses and technology are superior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qFiEna9p4U

DATYdude · Dec 6, 2006

If you want a movie mode, you can't use a dSLR.

You pay a lot for the Leica name but if that turns you on... I would consider the Canon S3iS (OK it's only 6MP but unless you're printing larger than 11x17, you don't need more), I have the S2is and am very happy with it, although the dynamic range on the 5MP on my cam isn't that great, the S3's sensor is supposed to be better. The movie mode is fantastic and image stabilization works in the movie mode to reduce the shaky-cam look, it's pretty cool.

KBear · Dec 6, 2006

Damondean said:
... The camera has a 2.1 sec time lag--time between pressing the shutter button and actiuvating the shutter. ...

That is a very long time to wait for the shutter to fire. If true I would be looking at other options.

The Leica you have picked does all you want it to, but may not do anything especially well. Don’t get caught up in the mega pixels, 6Mp is enough to print well 8" x 10".

For negotiating price, the stores will often price match. You can go to Henry's and get the same price for the camera as downtowncamera etc.

Berlin · Dec 6, 2006

Juldet said:
Here is a video review (some British TV Show) of point and shoot pocket cameras that reveals how good a Fuji compares to other brands....worth looking at just to see that Fuji lenses and technology are superior.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qFiEna9p4U

Fuji F30/31 is great for low light and indoors shots, that what we saw on that vid. DP also posted the same findings. But for regular outdoor or bright days at the beach type settings, Fuji may fair lesser among similar cam on the same class. Anway, check this:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf30/page16.asp

Juldet · Dec 6, 2006

Thanks for the review Berlin

For nights out, parties in a house etc the F30/31 is more than adequate. I am getting the F31 for the SO so it should do the trick for her.

During the day I would probably lug around my Fuji S602. I don't know what they replaced it with but if it is an improvement on the S602 I would buy it. I just did a model shoot for a friend of mine and she and her fashion friends were amazed with the quality and I am a joker when it comes to understanding aperture, F Stops, shutter spead and exposure.

benstt · Dec 6, 2006

Damondean said:
Your link is hardly a glowing review. The camera has a 2.1 sec time lag--time between pressing the shutter button and actiuvating the shutter. As mentioned, the Panasonic is identical except for the name plate.

Nooo, that's 2.1 seconds between one shot and cycling to be ready for the next. That depends on lighting, flash, etc. 2.1 seconds for a shutter press is insane for a new camera, you will mostly get pictures of the ground as you put the camera down to look at the back, wondering whether you got the shot.

Dpreview will time all that stuff when they do a full review.

You can see the timings for the Lumix DMC-FZ50 here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/page5.asp

markvee · Dec 6, 2006

Thanks for the input. I don't agree about megapixels past 6MP being meaningless because I often enlarge only a portion of the photo. So cropping 50% of a 10MP image creates a 5MP image while cropping 50% of a 6MP image creates a 3MP image.

I know that the best solution would be to buy a digital SLR (like the Rebel or the D80) plus a handycam, but I don't think that I can spend that kind of money right now.

Actually, the Canon PowerShot G7 looks pretty good (too bad it doesn't have RAW format):

http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=227275&CategoryID=DigitalCameras

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PageDisplay?dest=frames.jsp&currency=CAD&storeId=10001

http://www.epinions.com/Canon_PowerShot_G7_Digital_Camera/display_~full_specs

Is there a store that can beat Vistek's price of $670?

Damondean · Dec 6, 2006

You might check BestBuy.. or wait till after Christmas. It is bound to come down.

I used a G2 for a long time and it gave excellent results. It was a bit bigger than the G7.

Good luck and enjoy!

Cassini · Dec 7, 2006

benstt said:
Nooo, that's 2.1 seconds between one shot and cycling to be ready for the next.

That is still really high. I expect my cameras to take pictures, not wait around.

If your target is moving, then it is all about speed. People move. Kids are always moving. Animals don't stay in one place. You have to be ready to take the picture, and work with what you get.

monkeychan · Dec 7, 2006

markvee said:
Thanks for the input. I don't agree about megapixels past 6MP being meaningless because I often enlarge only a portion of the photo. So cropping 50% of a 10MP image creates a 5MP image while cropping 50% of a 6MP image creates a 3MP image.

Is there a store that can beat Vistek's price of $670?

1. If you need to crop up to 50% then you'll need to practice on how to frame your shot properly.

2. Almost any store can beat Vistek price on anything. If you want to go online, I'd suggest http://www.bhphotovideo.com If you want brick and mortar (physical) store, I highly recommend Amazing Photo at Market Village (Kennedy and Steeles, behind Pacific Mall). They are Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Olympus, Pentax authorized dealer. I've spent more than $30k worth of photogears (collectively in the past 5 years) at this store.

benstt · Dec 7, 2006

Cassini said:
That is still really high. I expect my cameras to take pictures, not wait around.

If your target is moving, then it is all about speed. People move. Kids are always moving. Animals don't stay in one place. You have to be ready to take the picture, and work with what you get.

But of course. That's why you can turn that new Lumix on and be ready to shoot in 1.6 seconds. I bought an older Lumix a couple of years ago after careful research, having experienced the disappointing timings of a cheap camera.

If the Leica uses similar tech as the Lumix, as people are saying, it may have similar timings -- so the answer will depend on how they tested it. Flash? No flash? Red-eye? Outdoors?

With the larger megapixel sizes, there's only so much speed you can get writing the image to media. Shot-to-shot timings on some newer cameras sometimes get worse compared to older models. The shot-to-shot for an outdoor setup looks to be about 1.4 seconds on the Lumix DC-FX50. My older Lumix has a shot-to-shot of about 1.1 seconds, but is (only) a 5MP camera. (Good enough for me...)

I expect that's why cameras also have a burst mode. They can take 2 to 5 pictures a second over a short period, to try to frame action shots. That newer Lumix, for example, can take pictures with 1.8FPS for as long as the card has space. My older one, can similarly do 2.2 FPS. They are limited by the sheer amount of data they have to get to the media card, so it is a race between the advances in megapixels versus card speeds.

Personally, I've never used the burst mode. A little over a second between shots is good enough for the little tykes soccer crowd, etc.

markvee · Dec 9, 2006

Thanks again everyone for the input.

I like the following cameras:

Canon PowerShot S3 IS ($489.95 at Vistek)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons3is/
Best movie mode, 6.2MP, no RAW

Sony Cyber-shot H5 ($549 at Vistek) ($509.99 at Downtown Camera)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh5/
Good movie mode, 7.2MP, no RAW

Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50 ($759.95 at Vistek) ($739.99 at Downtown Camera)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/
RAW, 10.4MP (but not improved picture quality), no autozoom on movies (check the samples of the Sony duck movie vs the Lumix movie)

Fujifilm Finepix S6000fd ($449.95 at Vistek = cheapest)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms6000fd/
RAW, 6.3MP, no image stabilization on movies

Specifications comparison:
http://www99.epinions.com/compare.html?submitted_form=side_by_side&Compare=Compare&prod30041967=on&prod30041933=on&prod36116309=on&prod34846334=on&previous_page=%2FDigital_Cameras--reviews--at_least_10x_zoom%2Fsec_%7Eproduct_list%2Fpp_%7E1%2Fpa_%7E1

I think overall, the choice is between the Canon PowerShot S3 IS (better for movies - possibly good price at Amazing Photo in Market Village) vs Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50 (better for pictures).

I like the Lumix more. However, the giftee already has a nice film camera but no handycam. Also, the giftee is nearly computer illiterate, so I don't know how much use the Lumix's excellent RAW conversion software will see.

I think I will start a new thread on handycams.

Damondean · Dec 9, 2006

You can't go wrong with the Canon.

monkeychan · Dec 9, 2006

benstt said:
With the larger megapixel sizes, there's only so much speed you can get writing the image to media.

If it can be done with dSLR at 5 fps (meaning from shot to shot is 0.2 of a sec wait), there is no reason for any camera (especially nowadays) requiring more than 0.5 sec from shot to shot.

Like a wiseman once said "you can't go wrong with Canon".

MarkII · Dec 9, 2006

[LEFT said:
markvee[/LEFT]]Thanks again everyone for the input.

I like the following cameras:

Canon
PowerShot
S3 IS ($489.95 at
Vistek
)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons3is/
Best movie mode, no RAW

Sony
Cyber
-shot H5 ($549 at
Vistek
)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh5/
Good movie mode, no RAW

Panasonic
Lumix
DMC-FZ50 ($759.95 at
Vistek
)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/
RAW, 10.4MP (but not improved picture quality), no
autozoom
on movies (check the samples of the Sony duck movie vs the
Lumix
movie)

Fujifilm

Finepix
S6000fd ($449.95 at
Vistek
)
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms6000fd/
RAW, no image stabilization on movies

Specifications comparison:
http://www99.epinions.com/compare.html?submitted_form=side_by_side&Compare=Compare&prod30041967=on&prod30041933=on&prod36116309=on&prod34846334=on&previous_page=%2FDigital_Cameras--reviews--at_least_10x_zoom%2Fsec_%7Eproduct_list%2Fpp_%7E1%2Fpa_%7E1

I think overall, the choice is between the Canon
PowerShot
S3 IS (better for movies - possibly good price at Amazing Photo in Market Village) vs Panasonic
Lumix
DMC-FZ50 (better for pictures).

I like the
Lumix
more. However, the
giftee
already has a nice film camera but no
handycam
. Also, the
giftee
is nearly computer illiterate, so I don't know how much use the
Lumix's
excellent RAW conversion software will see.

I think I will start a new thread on
handycams
.

MarkV

....if your looking for a good digicamera only...not video then go for the Canon G7. Not much when it comes to video. No raw but exceptional camera.

Unfortunately

the technology burst is coming early next year rather than before Christmas.

But as I've always said tailor the purchase to the end user. You can buy a gift certificate and take the

giftee

in to pick the camera THEY want as opposed to what you think they want. Always a better idea! Go buy an old camera body at one of the pawn shops and just wrap that with the gift card. Once the sales are on..you'll do better.

Note...ALL the stores honour the 30 day price guarantee...if you buy before Christmas they will honour the lower price after

Christmas

. Make sure you take advantage of it.

Studies

show fewer than 20 percent of those entitled to a rebate actually come back.

M2

markvee · Dec 9, 2006

monkeychan said:
If it can be done with dSLR at 5 fps (meaning from shot to shot is 0.2 of a sec wait), there is no reason for any camera (especially nowadays) requiring more than 0.5 sec from shot to shot.

Like a wiseman once said "you can't go wrong with Canon".

The giftee and I have never needed to shoot a picture more than once every minute or so.

If I wanted faster, I would just shoot a movie.

Assuming that shot to shot time is important, the Canon PowerShot S3 IS is slower (at 1.7 seconds) than the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50 (at 1.5 or ~1.6 seconds depending on the review).

http://reviews.cnet.com/Leica_V_Lux_1/4505-6501_7-32077813.html?subj=fdba&part=rss&tag=MR_Search+Results

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons3is/page4.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/page5.asp

I don't know if they are comparing taking pictures in the same format. I'm assuming that the Lumix would take longer to record in RAW format.

MarkII · Dec 9, 2006

markvee said:
The giftee and I have never needed to shoot a picture more than once every minute or so.

If I wanted faster, I would just shoot a movie.

Assuming that shot to shot time is important, the Canon PowerShot S3 IS is slower (at 1.7 seconds) than the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50 (at 1.5 or ~1.6 seconds depending on the review).

http://reviews.cnet.com/Leica_V_Lux_1/4505-6501_7-32077813.html?subj=fdba&part=rss&tag=MR_Search+Results

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons3is/page4.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz50/page5.asp

I don't know if they are comparing taking pictures in the same format. I'm assuming that the Lumix would take longer to record in RAW format.

Tests will normally show you the time for the camera to buffer a hi rez jpg and a raw file for comparison.

What often screws up the comparison is the assumption batteries are fully charged. If you have an off camera flash you will know all of a sudden your refresh rate can suddenly drop to a minute if the batteries are dying.

Same thing can happen to a point and shoot...the batteries get weak during the day and suddenly your waiting to take a picture as it knows it needs to addd fill flash.

Batteries are relly important to P/S cameras..have a fresh rechargable set in your pocket at all times. The more you look through the nice video display on the back the faster you'll need to replace the batteries!

Again..unless you are looking to shoot in raw and make major adjustments the best buy right now is the Canon G7.

M2

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