Why I hate public transit....

[Diode]

...or at least, why the TTC is never going to make me a regular.
Ok, I drive a lot, all over North America, and Europe to a lesser extent.
I took the TTC from Grade 9 till 3rd Year.
Never really looked back after I started working, except those drinking nights, when sometimes I use the TTC but most offten say fark it, and catch a cab.
Today, since I was not late, I took two 30 minute bus rides, and the Bloor subway line.
1) Could somebody PLease Clean the buses? Really, Please. They are strewn with ripe food, coke cans and heaven knows what else.
2) Who was the genious that purchased the new "Low Profile" buses?
A quick count and I bet they hold 20% less passengers when compared to the old ones.And the dammed Grab Rail is at a perfect height to smash ones head into.
3)Both of the "First aid" lockers, located behind the drivers rattled so much, I thought my teeth would fall out.Boys....Tighten them up.
4)The bus drivers appear to have microphones, why do they mumble the street names to them selves, instead of "announcing" them?
5)Could we not have digital displays at major stops counting down the next bus? ( Like Europe, or even Vaughn!)
6)How about a credit card machine for tickets on the bus, or at the stops?
7) It is now Three weeks since the daylight saving time change. Any one notice all the Transfer Machines are an hour wrong?
On the bright side, at least I got "Hellos" and "How are you" from the drivers after saying "Good Evening"
Sorry, Global Warming be dammed ( Its a hoax anyway ) I ain't using the TTC too much, until it grows up.

 

[fuji]

The subways and streetcars are not bad. As soon as you need to take a bus it just sucks. I won't do it. I'll take a subway to as near as possible to where I'm going and a cab it from there.

Even the streetcars can suck because on many routes they just aren't frequent enough. I'm an impatient guy, if it's going to take more than 5min for a vehicle to come along I flag a cab.

 

[jbar]

Well, at least they are not as bad as the ones in New York.... for now.

Seriously though, for the sheer volume of people that the TTC handles, I'd give them a C+. However, I would love to explore the famous transit system in Europe for a contrast.

 

[1HandInMyPocket]

1) Could somebody PLease Clean the buses? Really, Please. They are strewn with ripe food, coke cans and heaven knows what else.

I agree, but people also need to clean up after themselves.

4)The bus drivers appear to have microphones, why do they mumble the street names to them selves, instead of "announcing" them?

Some of the newer buses are suppose to have displays at the front of the bus to let passengers know what the next stop is.

5)Could we not have digital displays at major stops counting down the next bus? ( Like Europe, or even Vaughn!)

6)How about a credit card machine for tickets on the bus, or at the stops?

The cost (for GPS and terminals to display the next bus and accept CC) would be too much even if at only major intersections. Also I think terminal are more likely to be vandalized than the ones currently in Vaughan.

But I do agree, that changes need to be implemented.

 

[teejer]

...or at least, why the TTC is never going to make me a regular.
Ok, I drive a lot, all over North America, and Europe to a lesser extent.
I took the TTC from Grade 9 till 3rd Year.
Never really looked back after I started working, except those drinking nights, when sometimes I use the TTC but most offten say fark it, and catch a cab.
Today, since I was not late, I took two 30 minute bus rides, and the Bloor subway line.
1) Could somebody PLease Clean the buses? Really, Please. They are strewn with ripe food, coke cans and heaven knows what else.
2) Who was the genious that purchased the new "Low Profile" buses?
A quick count and I bet they hold 20% less passengers when compared to the old ones.And the dammed Grab Rail is at a perfect height to smash ones head into.
3)Both of the "First aid" lockers, located behind the drivers rattled so much, I thought my teeth would fall out.Boys....Tighten them up.
4)The bus drivers appear to have microphones, why do they mumble the street names to them selves, instead of "announcing" them?
5)Could we not have digital displays at major stops counting down the next bus? ( Like Europe, or even Vaughn!)
6)How about a credit card machine for tickets on the bus, or at the stops?
7) It is now Three weeks since the daylight saving time change. Any one notice all the Transfer Machines are an hour wrong?
On the bright side, at least I got "Hellos" and "How are you" from the drivers after saying "Good Evening"
Sorry, Global Warming be dammed ( Its a hoax anyway ) I ain't using the TTC too much, until it grows up.

I think the basic problem is that the "car culture" is so deeply ingrained that public transit will never be what we want or expect it to be. I do want to comment about Diode's comment about those new buses. Talk about serious design flaws! Did the people who designed these things EVER ride on a bus in their lives? I think not. Small and cramped seats so many of us long-legged people have to sit sideways. Those 2 big steps to get to the back seats (its only a matter of time before somebody falls down those things and sues the TTC). The bad positioning of the rear doors, so much so that it is almost impossible NOT to stand in the doorway during rush hours. That middle seat at the back about the size of a baby chair. There are other problems too...my fellow bus riders will know what I mean. I have written to the TTC about this and received no response. I don't know if they are even listening to their riders anymore. It's all rather discouraging.

 

[Diode]

Not sure what car culture has to do with it.
The TTC is there for people who HAVE to use it.
The Typical ploy to encorage "middle class" folks on to the TTC is to "punish" them by making parking outrageous, reducing lanes for stupid bike paths, left turn restrictions....etc.
Hey I got an Idea...How about making public transit desirable, so people "want" to take it?

Why..cause that's impossible.

 

[benstt]

2) Who was the genious that purchased the new "Low Profile" buses?
A quick count and I bet they hold 20% less passengers when compared to the old ones.And the dammed Grab Rail is at a perfect height to smash ones head into.

I second this. I do ride the bus reasonably regularly (I prefer to ride transit & read a book than drive.) They threw a bunch of these on my regular route for a while. I don't think they upped the frequency of the buses to compensate for the lower load, and the result from my observation was more people being left behind at the stops. During the rush hour peaks, this killed the practicality. I can see waiting a few minutes for a bus, but not waiting for 2 or 3 buses. They dropped off the number they use on the route again.

I just did a quick scan around, and found some references that the crush, standing room capacity of the old buses is about 80 people, and the new low floors was about 66 people.

One big problem is the front wheels; in the old high floor buses the space over the wheels is occupied by seats and standing room. The low floor buses have wheel wells, and the space above them is dead for passenger use.

That, and they have filled in the back section with seating, likely to say they have near the same number of seats as the old buses. That's just not helpful when the buses are standing room only at rush hour.

 

[Firebot]

Those low profile buses are meant to be wheelchair accessible. All the buses are being changed to these over time so get used to them. Most buses in Mississauga have long switched to this design.

And yes it does suck that they have a much lower load capacity.

 

[K Douglas]

Comparing the TTC to other major cities transit systems I think its safe to say its below average. I used to see the buses going across Eglinton all the time just people jammed into them like Sardines. How does an elderly woman or man get out of their seat to exit the bus?
Many underground rail systems in Europe and Asia have a plexiglass barrier so you can't fall onto the tracks. They also have a countdown clock to next train arrival. Our system is so antiquated. If the politicians really want people to use the transit system they need to drastically improve it - in my estimation it will take $1-2 billion to do so.

 

[fuji]

TTC is there for people who HAVE to use it.

That's car culture, though. Not just that you think so, but also because apparently TTC and city planners think so too.

How about making public transit desirable, so people "want" to take it?

Why..cause that's impossible.

It's not impossible. There are several cities in the world where the public transit system is MUCH better than the alternative of driving. Manhattan, London, and Tokyo come to mind as big city examples. Maybe only some parts of Toronto have that level of density.

As I said above, the TTC is pretty good if you can get where you want to go by subway. Soon as you have to transfer to another mode of transit it falls off--streetcars are good, but not great. Busses suck.

 

[hinz]

Many underground rail systems in Europe and Asia have a plexiglass barrier so you can't fall onto the tracks. They also have a countdown clock to next train arrival. Our system is so antiquated. If the politicians really want people to use the transit system they need to drastically improve it - in my estimation it will take $1-2 billion to do so.

Totally agree but given the fact that most if not all the politicans rarely take TTC (maybe not for NDP), do you expect the 3 levels of governments to get serious, commit and spend enough money annually to make the transit less antiquated and make it attract to people?

Not a chance for a North American style democracy cause all politicans work on one-time, piece meal basis, pretty much like day-trading and speculating in the stock market. They care only those that have sex appeal and can leverage to buying votes.

As far as the pexiglass barrier is concern, they are expensive and it takes a big committment from the government in terms of policies and funding to make it happen, plus weak dissention from the politicans.

If TTC wants to learn something from other transit system, take a look at how things work at MTRC http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/homepage/e_corp_index.html

But first, they have to confront the Unions.

 

[Hugh G. Rekshun]

...Most buses in Mississauga have long switched to this design.
And yes it does suck that they have a much lower load capacity.

Most of Mississauga's are the longer articulated buses. Mississauga also has transfers that can be valid for up to two hours, allowing you to make some round trips on one ticket. I would use TTC more often if they had it.

You can also get off a GO Train and show your GO ticket or pass and pay only 60¢ to get on a Msga transit bus. Msga, Brampton, Vaughan, etc., accept each others transfers on joining routes, but TTC doesn't. Even on TTC routes that continue outside the city's boundaries, for example north of Steeles, they actually make you pay a second fare! WTF? Dumbest example of TTC refusing to acknowledge other transit systems was mentioned in a letter this week in Now. The Dundas West subway station is underneath the Bloor GO Train station, yet there is no stairway connecting them and no sign to advise anyone of their proximity.

 

[moviefan]

But first, they have to confront the Unions.

That's absolutely true. On the list of complaints, we shouldn't forget the TTC's difficulties in getting people to their destinations on time. The subway system breaks down at least once a week.

 

[Steve Stifler]

Actual Fact:

11 out of 10 bus drivers surveyed are always in a pissy mood.


.

 

[hinz]

That's absolutely true.

The only way to confront the Union with a reasonable degree of success is to follow what United Airlines/Air Canada/US Airways/Northwest of the world do-declare insolvent and request Chapter 11/bankrupcy protection.

Then the TTC board needs to get the investment banks and transition management to confront the Unions by pushing the latter to the brink to makeconcessions on slashing pensions, wage freeze, voluntary attrition & change the pension plan from DB to DC.

After a couple of years max in bankrupcy protection, there should be an IPO to the Bay Street where the 3 levels of government should retain at least 60%to 70% of share ownerships, while the rest are for public, in addition to generate handsome profits for the investment banks be RBC Dominion Securities, CIBC World Markets.

Simultaneously, the TTC should secure fundings and property developments along new TTC subway lines and stations, in addition to fees generation from advertising along the subway lines & revenue to expand "smart card"/electronic fare collection program......

This is not going to happen in Canada as the commie, also known as NDP ruled out any partial-privatization of TTC, while the right-wing Tory and their Bay Street sidekicks hate the idea of government owning and profiting publicly traded transit authority at the expense of nickel and dime the clients/constitunents.

 

[markvee]

How cheap is it to drive on that private highway?

 

[fuji]

Things like transit should often be funded by govt. because many of the benefits (ie: profits/payoffs) of the system are implicit. Reduced use of highways, reduced pollution, better utilization of land, etc., are all general benefits of the system that would show up in higher tax revenues or lower tax expenditures. A service that is funded entirely from user fees would have to be profitable in its own right excluding those benefits, and therefore a subway that might be profitable for the govt. to run might not be profitable for a private entity.

As a result, while privitizing the TTC would likely result in a more efficient organization (better cost control), it might efficiently decide to cancel routes that are unprofitable for the corporation itself to run, but might well be profitable for the government/society as a whole to run.

Unless you're willing to have a private corporation that receives a subsidy from the govt., that's a tough one. The interests of the corp. are not aligned with the govt., they would be tempted to pocket the subsidy and run only the routes that are profitable for the corp. directly.

 

[burlboy]

Those low profile buses are meant to be wheelchair accessible. All the buses are being changed to these over time so get used to them. Most buses in Mississauga have long switched to this design.

And yes it does suck that they have a much lower load capacity.

I ride the TTC Daily and I have never seen a wheel chair person use the regular bus. I do see tons of Weel trans buses dropping these people at their stops. It seems to me that the low profile buses were a collosal waste of tax payer money.

 

[TheNiteHwk]

I ride the TTC Daily and I have never seen a wheel chair person use the regular bus. I do see tons of Weel trans buses dropping these people at their stops. It seems to me that the low profile buses were a collosal waste of tax payer money.

I agree 100%. And I say that as the adult child of a disabled parent. Total waste of money. They IMO should have put the $xxxmillons$ extra they spent on these busses to expand and improve WheelTrans. I too have never once ever in all my years in GTA seen a wheelchair on a bus. And in past couple of years only 3 times have I seen wheelchair user on subway. Not only do these busses cost a lot more then other busses but they hold up all other passengers when ever a wheelchair gets on. Like I said I have never seen a wheelchair on a bus but a driver I was chatting with one night explained to me it takes a minimum of 7 mins to properly load and secure a wheelchair. So that means if a wheelchair does get on... the whole bus load of passengers must wait 7 mins (or more) for them to load and then when they get off another 7 mins to unload them. Not to mention he said to me a couple of times he had to ask other passengers to get off the bus and spill out on to the street while he got the wheelchair on. So all these people are not only going to be late where ever they are going... they have to disembark and get back on the bus again 1/2 way through their trip.

WheelTrans is poorly run and they have no where near # of busses they need. All the $millions$ extra that they are going to spend on these over priced low floor buses should have been spent on upgrading service levels and more and better equipment etc for WheelTrans. IMO.

 

[frankcastle]

The TTC isn't that bad most of the complaints you have are inconvinances at best but being aware of them they are not that bad. I mean low rails and rattling boxes suck but they don't affect getting from point A to B.

The reality is that if we want those things taken care of that's more money which means higher fares.

The mumbling could be corrected so I agree that yes the drivers could speak more clearly.

The garbage though.... that's the responsibility of the passenger. I hate eating at fast food places and watching people leave without cleaning up for themselves. I blame lazy adults and this has a trickle down effect onto their kids.

Hell I've been to the mall and walked through say a circuit city to find coffee cups left behind on shelves. I mean WTF that's just common courtesy yet people just don't seem to give a crap.

To this day I still take my tray to the garbabe.... and that "it's their job" mentality just doesn't wash with me because I don't believe in creating unnecessary work for others.