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The School Boards are left with 0 reserves to help students with Covid thanks to Doug Ford

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Akila Besos

Yup my son's class has literally grown from 23 kids to almost 40 in a JK/SK spilt class :/

I hate it but sadly we parents are just stuck dealing with dougies lack of care for those youngsters
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
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The average starting salary of a teacher in Ontario is the same as the average salary of all of Ontario (not starting, but overall!). This nearly doubles after 15 years of experience. And that's not taking into account very generous benefits and pension.
Money is not an infinite resource, and tough decisions have to be made. Maybe consider how overpaid our teachers are before blaming Dougie alone, eh?
 
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james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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Education is the largest recipient of tax dollars in Ontario.

If they're out of money, it's because they are wasting money elsewhere.

Knowing how various government agencies work, they always cut where the public will notice the most and hence scream the loudest. Oldest trick in the civil service empire builders book.

I'm sure that if Ford called in the auditors, they could find plenty of places to cut to funding that no-one would ever miss and then some.
 

versitile1

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2013
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Education is the largest recipient of tax dollars in Ontario.

If they're out of money, it's because they are wasting money elsewhere.

Knowing how various government agencies work, they always cut where the public will notice the most and hence scream the loudest. Oldest trick in the civil service empire builders book.

I'm sure that if Ford called in the auditors, they could find plenty of places to cut to funding that no-one would ever miss and then some.
Residential schools were just boarding schools.
Anyone who thinks this has no business telling anybody anything remotely related to education.
 

Mr Deeds

Muff Diver Extraordinaire
Mar 10, 2013
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Here
The average starting salary of a teacher in Ontario is the same as the average salary of all of Ontario (not starting, but overall!). This nearly doubles after 15 years of experience. And that's not taking into account very generous benefits and pension.
Money is not an infinite resource, and tough decisions have to be made. Maybe consider how overpaid our teachers are before blaming Dougie alone, eh?
Our children deserve the best education we can give them, teachers deserve every cent they get, and no money is not infinite but every time some politician wants to cut costs they go after out childrens education which does bode well for the future. Duggy has always had a hard on for teachers because he's an ignorant, uneducated slob
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Education is the largest recipient of tax dollars in Ontario.
...
And with the other big ticket of health care is one of the most significant to society.

As has been reported, Ford has been sitting on covid relief funds sent by the feds and with elementary schools being one of the few remaining mass gatherings of unvaccinated people, it makes sense to spend those covid funds on it. If they don't want to use that money to reduce the size of those daily gatherings, they should at least be doing weekly testing at the schools.
 

rhuarc29

Well-known member
Apr 15, 2009
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Our children deserve the best education we can give them, teachers deserve every cent they get, and no money is not infinite but every time some politician wants to cut costs they go after out childrens education which does bode well for the future. Duggy has always had a hard on for teachers because he's an ignorant, uneducated slob
Yes, but you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, always. I'd say our kids deserve the best medical care we can give them too, the best daycare, the best dental and eyecare. But the fact remains we are spending more than we have, and while there's plenty of slop we could tighten up (and should), the biggest drain in education is those teacher salaries. If you want to make meaningful change, that's where it has to happen. At the very least those pay rates need to be frozen for many years to allow our GDP (and tax collection) to catch up to the point where we can afford them. That, of course, won't happen, and so we'll continue to have less money to spend on the services we need, and people will keep screaming for more indebted spending, and the spiral worsens. Can't fix it when most of the public doesn't understand why there's no money.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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And with the other big ticket of health care is one of the most significant to society.

As has been reported, Ford has been sitting on covid relief funds sent by the feds and with elementary schools being one of the few remaining mass gatherings of unvaccinated people, it makes sense to spend those covid funds on it. If they don't want to use that money to reduce the size of those daily gatherings, they should at least be doing weekly testing at the schools.
Between Health Care and Education, I believe that together they total about 85% of the budget of the province of Ontario. With such a large amount of money comes a hell of a lot of responsibility with respect to oversight.
 

versitile1

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2013
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Ah yes the old, "if you don't agree with me, you need to keep your mouth shut" outlook.

How tolerant.
Well, since the only type of people here who agree with you are posters like contact, cantaro, jcpro, dutch oven, and their ilk, and the people who agree with me are; the entire country, seems like your views don’t align with true Canadian values.

So yeah, when you spout off saying something as dumb as you did, you should probably keep it to yourself or at least to your alt-right chat blog or whatever you guys use these days.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Ah yes the old, "if you don't agree with me, you need to keep your mouth shut" outlook.

How tolerant.
Well, you could always advocate for the Catholic school to take over all of education, since you think the residential schools were the right decision.
I'm sure that solves our education issues and could build a generation of people who think like you.
 

Chardir

That guy
Mar 9, 2012
27
20
3
The average starting salary of a teacher in Ontario is the same as the average salary of all of Ontario (not starting, but overall!). This nearly doubles after 15 years of experience. And that's not taking into account very generous benefits and pension.
Money is not an infinite resource, and tough decisions have to be made. Maybe consider how overpaid our teachers are before blaming Dougie alone, eh?
On teacher salaries, your math is wrong so lets correct it. Starting salary ranges from 51k to 55k and that’s if you have 5-6 years education and its your first career. It then increases per annum by 7% and maxes out at team years, There is one more slot on the grid but for you to start there you must be entering from a different career or have at least 8 year education. This is only if your are hired out of the gate. Usually there are 3-4 years of supply teaching, where you don‘t move up the grid and divide the starting salary by 194 (days in the school year) and that’s what you are paid each day. If you get an LTO you do move up the grid proportionately to the work done. Often during this time teachers take extra training to reach the top of the grid, minimum of three extra courses but most teaches take more increase their chances of hire, (the equivilent of .66 to 2 more years of university or trades will work too). Then you get hired. After 6-8 years of education and 3-4 years working without benefits making good money ($250 a day when you get the all). You get to start at 57K if you were smart and kept educating yourself. There are unicorns that meet the needs of the school board, that might get hired right away, but currently those are few. Tell me another job that expects that, and pays less?

Benefits and pensions are payed into equally by employer and employee, the teachers privatized both or these and the pension fund is the largest privately run fund in the world.

Now back to Dougie’s lie he put $480 million not 1.5 billion into making schools safer and not allowing any unstarted construction/improvements since he took power (a lot were for improving ventilation which the government dismissed as putting in air conditioning). The other 1.02 billion came from the reserve fund Which doggie allowed them to spend on PPE. The reserve fund is curious beast, if your local board has one it is meant to be used to meet local needs that dont fall under the funding formula and is limited in what it can be spent on. Often it is used on new buildings, as currently you can only increase the size of a school by 20% over its current population. but that’s a different story just expect a lot more portable over the next 10 years and when you want to blame somebody remember Dougie’s SURPLUS during a pandemic.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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Between Health Care and Education, I believe that together they total about 85% of the budget of the province of Ontario. With such a large amount of money comes a hell of a lot of responsibility with respect to oversight.
As should every government expenditure. I would rather rely on experts to determine the criteria for expenditure rather than someone who feels experienced because they once went to a school or sat in an ER.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
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Well, you could always advocate for the Catholic school to take over all of education, since you think the residential schools were the right decision.
I'm sure that solves our education issues and could build a generation of people who think like you.
If you had an kind of a memory, you'd know that I don't trust ANY religious organization.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
23,932
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Well, since the only type of people here who agree with you are posters like contact, cantaro, jcpro, dutch oven, and their ilk, and the people who agree with me are; the entire country, seems like your views don’t align with true Canadian values.

So yeah, when you spout off saying something as dumb as you did, you should probably keep it to yourself or at least to your alt-right chat blog or whatever you guys use these days.
I always question the narrative and I'm a big believer in the right of free speech even though some people will perceive it to be disrespectful. I realize that in doing so, I risk offending people, especially sensitive people. But last time I checked, it's not against the law (yet) to offend people so pull your helmet on tight. It would be very easy of me to jump on the navel gazing bandwagon that hates Canada, wants to keep the flag at half mast forever and feels the need to apologize continuously, but I won't do it. It would seem that today it has become en-vogue to harshly judge yesterday's leaders by today's woke cultural ideals. We look at great men like John A McDonald, the father of this country as somehow akin to a Canadian Hitler. He built a country through the sheer force of will. Hammering a square peg in a round hole with a 50 ton press as they say. He took a bunch of different groups of people with disparate viewpoints and and melded them together despite their differences to form the greatest country in the world. I suspect that he was quite a ruthless man who understood that in order to build a country you need to piss a few people off and most definitely not everyone was going to go home with a ribbon. Even Pierre Trudeau understood (and I agree with him) that you can't have different laws in the same country for different people. Just like PET didn't believe in Quebec being deemed a "distinct society" with its own preferential set of laws, he didn't believe in 2 parallel cultures in the same geographical space. (And I agree with him on that too. It just won't work and we are seeing proof of that today.) And as Pierre Trudeau, a man I consider to have been one of Canada's greatest Prime Ministers once said, and I'm paraphrasing a bit, "Whether or not there has been 100 years of injustice is irrelevant. I will not apologize for the past, only learn from it and do better" I firmly believe this as well.

So really, you're only point throughout this thread is that is that I should just keep my mouth shut. Or am I missing something?
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
23,932
3,679
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As should every government expenditure. I would rather rely on experts to determine the criteria for expenditure rather than someone who feels experienced because they once went to a school or sat in an ER.
I have no idea how you came up with that one based on what I said. Especially since I believe I was agreeing with your statement.
 

versitile1

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2013
3,084
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I always question the narrative and I'm a big believer in the right of free speech even though some people will perceive it to be disrespectful. I realize that in doing so, I risk offending people, especially sensitive people. But last time I checked, it's not against the law (yet) to offend people so pull your helmet on tight. It would be very easy of me to jump on the navel gazing bandwagon that hates Canada, wants to keep the flag at half mast forever and feels the need to apologize continuously, but I won't do it. It would seem that today it has become en-vogue to harshly judge yesterday's leaders by today's woke cultural ideals. We look at great men like John A McDonald, the father of this country as somehow akin to a Canadian Hitler. He built a country through the sheer force of will. Hammering a square peg in a round hole with a 50 ton press as they say. He took a bunch of different groups of people with disparate viewpoints and and melded them together despite their differences to form the greatest country in the world. I suspect that he was quite a ruthless man who understood that in order to build a country you need to piss a few people off and most definitely not everyone was going to go home with a ribbon. Even Pierre Trudeau understood (and I agree with him) that you can't have different laws in the same country for different people. Just like PET didn't believe in Quebec being deemed a "distinct society" with its own preferential set of laws, he didn't believe in 2 parallel cultures in the same geographical space. (And I agree with him on that too. It just won't work and we are seeing proof of that today.) And as Pierre Trudeau, a man I consider to have been one of Canada's greatest Prime Ministers once said, and I'm paraphrasing a bit, "Whether or not there has been 100 years of injustice is irrelevant. I will not apologize for the past, only learn from it and do better" I firmly believe this as well.

So really, you're only point throughout this thread is that is that I should just keep my mouth shut. Or am I missing something?
Make no mistake, I am in no means offended by any previous statements you made and am 100% behind everyone’s right to freedom of expression (freedom of speech is an American right). I may have been a bit harsh with my “you have no business…” statement, and could have worded it much better.

I know my posts won’t stop you from posting, nor should they, and that wasn’t my intent. I actually wanted you to answer the question from the other thread where your statement I quoted came from. I will only post in this thread if I have something to add to the topic.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,732
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I have no idea how you came up with that one based on what I said. Especially since I believe I was agreeing with your statement.
Your post sure came off bitching about the education costs. Much criticism of the size of the budget seems to be either viewing children as a product where we should cut corners to save costs or complaining about 'greedy' teachers. I apologize if that wasn't your intent.
 
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