Allegra Escorts Collective
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Stigma of the sex worker

Lickylick

Eating pussy should be an Olympic sport.
Jan 25, 2018
44
39
18
Well, in that case, what if it were moved to The Lounge and there was a sticky post (or something like that) in the Ottawa 411 that pointed/linked/shortcutted to the main thread? Ottawa TERBites would still see it but participation is actually in the main thread. Shortcuts could be added in other regions' 411 forums. Then you'd get more diversity of opinion, for sure. But maybe OP thinks only Ottawa area SWs have these issues?
I think we need a section in the Ottawa sector to help keep the topics local and close to home.
 
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Amber Glory

Member
Apr 16, 2019
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61
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Why I think people are allowed to view their opinion on this subject. Other then a certain person who needs not be named, everyone seems to sharing their opinions like civilized people. If you don't choose to join the conversation doesn't give you the right to say shut it down.
But you're not informing anyone of anything outside of your opinion, because actual facts disprove everything you're shouting about.

You just wanted your little megaphone moment to be heard, I hope you feel better now that you got that out :)

Also please back up your claim that the violence sex workers face is comparable to clients. There's clearly statistics to back those numbers of murders and rapes right? You can't say you're "informing" us of anything if you can't back it up, I'll wait patiently 🥰
 

Amber Glory

Member
Apr 16, 2019
43
61
18
Y'know what, I'm not going to try and argue with someone who claims that clients face equal violence to full service sex workers, but I will say this: is it disgustingly disrespectful to say that and you can never say you respect sex workers if you believe and make that claim.

Can clients be at risk for violence? Absolutely, no one says they can't.

Is it the same as the daily threat of rape, robbery, assault, eviction or murder we face every day when we go to work?
Stop and think for a minute if that's something you had to worry about every time you go to work?

We have these risks BECAUSE of the stigma; People who wish to do us harm seek sex workers out in particular because we're seen as easy targets - society doesn't care about us, many don't have support networks, we're forced to work alone, etc.
These stigmas make it so that we're not even seen as human to so many in the world. That's why so many serial killers target sex workers, we're seen as easy prey because of stigma.

If you genuinely care about and respect sex workers and see them as humans worthy of rights and protections as anyone else, especially if we've brought some form of happiness or positivity to your life, then you wouldn't argue about this topic, you would fight alongside us to break the stigma down, to help keep us safe.

I wish you all the best ❤
 
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Lickylick

Eating pussy should be an Olympic sport.
Jan 25, 2018
44
39
18
But you're not informing anyone of anything outside of your opinion, because actual facts disprove everything you're shouting about.

You just wanted your little megaphone moment to be heard, I hope you feel better now that you got that out :)

Also please back up your claim that the violence sex workers face is comparable to clients. There's clearly statistics to back those numbers of murders and rapes right? You can't say you're "informing" us of anything if you can't back it up, I'll wait patiently 🥰
It's my opinion that violence in the sex industry is a 2 way street and both sides feel the effects, I agree there are more reported cases again sex worker but that doesn't meant clients aren't victimized as well.

Clients have been killed, beaten and robbed in the past do you deny this? We face dangers as well.
 
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gibarian

Active member
Aug 28, 2019
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Licensing will hell weed out those being forced to into the industry. The only people who don't want it are the criminal element that thrives in this industry. I am not anti sex worker. I am anti criminal. "locks are meant to keep honest people out." Laws and regulations are meant to keep honest people in check.
You're wrong. Many (probably most) SWs and pro-SW organizations/collectives favour decriminalization. If your "research" led you to conclude that only criminals are against regulation then your research was a failure. However, it's not even clear that you understand the difference between decriminalization and legalization, based on your previous comments.

As promised, here's the link to the thread where you already received an explanation of some reasons SWs do not favour regulation. You actually started that thread yourself, too. :rolleyes:

 

Lickylick

Eating pussy should be an Olympic sport.
Jan 25, 2018
44
39
18
Y'know what, I'm not going to try and argue with someone who claims that clients face equal violence to full service sex workers, but I will say this: is it disgustingly disrespectful to say that and you can NEVER say you respect sex workers if you believe and make that claim.

Can clients be at risk for violence? Absolutely, no one says they can't.

Is it the same as the daily threat of rape, robbery, assault, eviction or murder we face every day when we go to work?
Stop and think for a minute if that's something you had to worry about every time you go to work?

We have these risks BECAUSE of the stigma, people who wish to do us harm seek sex workers out in particular because we're seen as easy targets - society doesn't care about us, many don't have support networks, we're forced to work alone, etc.
These stigmas make it so that we're not even seen as human to so many in the world. That's why so many serial killers target sex workers, we're seen as easy prey because of stigma.

If you genuinely care and respect sex workers and see them as humans worthy of rights and protections as anyone else, especially if we've brought some form of happiness or positivity to your life, then you wouldn't argue about this topic, you would fight alongside us to break the stigma down, to help keep us safe.

I wish you all the best ❤
Being a victim of violence related to this industry I will agree to disagree.

I understand your plight and empathize with your challenges my post was meant to create a healthy conversation where ideas and opinions could be shared and hopefully and maybe someone gets something good from this and it changes their outlook, not be attacked for my observations and opinions. Nothing I have said is misleading or false.

Again other then enjoying the services of providers, I have the pleasure of meeting. how else does one support sex workers without coming out and being stigmatized.

Thank you for being less defensive and more understanding. I treat everyone with the same respect they show me regardless of who they are.
 
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curiousm7

Active member
Jul 12, 2012
694
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28
For sure he and few others are back. I know for a fact that there's a group of guys that got banned from terb and now they are groupies on discord. I have been informed they are back here under different names. They also enjoy fake booking girls and do it continuously if they think a girls prices are too much or if they just don't like them. So, with that being said, he and the others, are not supportive of sex workers when they behave the way that they do and brag about fucking a girl for cheap in their private discord chat and bbfs'ing girls & creampie'ing them like whiteman likes to brag about in the private chat. That is not being supportive imo, that is slobbyist behaviour. I won't name anymore names but i'm sure you can figure out who the other banned members are.

So while those banned members like to create threads such as this, "stigma of a sex worker" those are the types of people who aren't supportive at all of sex workers. just by visiting them doesn't make them supportive as they like to imagine. Their behaviour is abhorrent, and how they talk about sex workers in their private little group chat is quite despicable.
Bingo!!
 

Nesbot

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2016
1,503
253
83
I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. What I'm getting lately is that you have to check your opinions before you post here now. I don't agree with the OP but damn
I’m not sure if decriminalizing sex work will erase the stigma but it can definitely do a lot of good! Stigma is something my colleagues and I talk about constantly, my personal view is that if isn’t an issue for me than it shouldn’t be an issue for you. I know that’s easier said than done and will always respect that people have the right to think want they want.

How I have been going around challenging the stigma is just to be completely transparent about what I do, in my personal interactions with people outside is the sw world, (I.e friends, family, work etc). I just tell it to them how it is as I think the fact that I don’t act ashamed of what I do (not that anyone should be), and am actually Nonchalant about it might actually cause them to reassess and think about it. I take every opportunity to explain and educate about what I think the industry is about. Yeah there’s certain things like services etc! BUT it’s natural for humans wanting experience each other! It’s building a connection, a rapport, intimacy and being vulnerable, it’s being able to freely explore a side of yourself without fear of being judged!!

I always tell people this work has done so much for me. Not just fiscally speaking but breaking down my perception on age, and discovering my own sexuality and creating amazing bonds with both clients and fellow workers. I have found that voicing these aspects as well as being open and upfront has had a positive impact on how people view my as a member of the industry and the industry itself.

I know everyone’s case is different but I truly think if people were less afraid of what people would think of them and took the chance of being open and upfront it could really change things. It’s not up to laws but the people themselves. If you keep treating it as taboo nothing will change. This is just my humble opinion. Xox no disrespect intended!
This is an interesting take that I haven't considered. Its enlightening to understand your perspective on being open about your work. While everybody's inner circle and family dynamics are different, I do appreciate your approach of being up front and nonchalant.
 

Theredmilf

Ruby Lust, The Red MILF
Dec 9, 2016
295
121
43
Ottawa / Gatineau
www.theredmilf.com
You need to look at the world around you and get your head out of your ass....The level of violence is comparable if you think otherwise you must be a provider in disguise.
In a country where we have a stretch of road called The Highway of Tears, you cannot be saying this with a straight face. We all remember what happened on the Pickton farm; when I toured Vancouver word on the street was David Pickton (the brother who some allege was ringleader) was out hiring SWs. And, while it’s a minority, there are a number of bad clients right here in our Ottawa community who have physically assaulted, threatened, doxxed and stalked more times than anyone can track.

We can all Google statistics on violence against women and sex workers. This statement is so deplorable and patently false, it can only be intended to provoke a reaction and start a fight on what has otherwise been a civil and even friendly forum of late.

Surely we can carry on a discussion based on truth and facts rather than inflammatory positions designed to polarize people. If we want to improve this industry for both clients and SWs, how about we start by speaking and acting in good faith?
 

Lickylick

Eating pussy should be an Olympic sport.
Jan 25, 2018
44
39
18
In a country where we have a stretch of road called The Highway of Tears, you cannot be saying this with a straight face. We all remember what happened on the Pickton farm; when I toured Vancouver word on the street was David Pickton (the brother who some allege was ringleader) was out hiring SWs. And, while it’s a minority, there are a number of bad clients right here in our Ottawa community who have physically assaulted, threatened, doxxed and stalked more times than anyone can track.

We can all Google statistics on violence against women and sex workers. This statement is so deplorable and patently false, it can only be intended to provoke a reaction and start a fight on what has otherwise been a civil and even friendly forum of late.

Surely we can carry on a discussion based on truth and facts rather than inflammatory positions designed to polarize people. If we want to improve this industry for both clients and SWs, how about we start by speaking and acting in good faith?
I am sorry if my opinion about the stigmatization of sex workers doesn't conform to your approval should I be vilified for believing that it will be a battle of mass undertaking, or it may remain the same. The process of changing peoples opinions which is what stigma is, a state of mind. I Agree that over time with reforms and laws things may change.

I do not condone any violence towards anyone, nor do I deny that stigma is a factor that fuels violence against sex workers, my opinion that the violence against clients is just as real and to mitigate which one is worse is clouding the issue.

I can carry on a conversation when I am not trying to defend my opinions. None of my statements were false and based on real life facts.

I am in favor of decimalizing, regulating and licensing sex worker.

In all this turmoil only one post stands out with the right attitude, all providers should follow her lead.

I’m not sure if decriminalizing sex work will erase the stigma but it can definitely do a lot of good! Stigma is something my colleagues and I talk about constantly, my personal view is that if isn’t an issue for me than it shouldn’t be an issue for you. I know that’s easier said than done and will always respect that people have the right to think want they want.

How I have been going around challenging the stigma is just to be completely transparent about what I do, in my personal interactions with people outside is the sw world, (I.e friends, family, work etc). I just tell it to them how it is as I think the fact that I don’t act ashamed of what I do (not that anyone should be), and am actually Nonchalant about it might actually cause them to reassess and think about it. I take every opportunity to explain and educate about what I think the industry is about. Yeah there’s certain things like services etc! BUT it’s natural for humans wanting experience each other! It’s building a connection, a rapport, intimacy and being vulnerable, it’s being able to freely explore a side of yourself without fear of being judged!!

I always tell people this work has done so much for me. Not just fiscally speaking but breaking down my perception on age, and discovering my own sexuality and creating amazing bonds with both clients and fellow workers. I have found that voicing these aspects as well as being open and upfront has had a positive impact on how people view my as a member of the industry and the industry itself.

I know everyone’s case is different but I truly think if people were less afraid of what people would think of them and took the chance of being open and upfront it could really change things. It’s not up to laws but the people themselves. If you keep treating it as taboo nothing will change. This is just my humble opinion. Xox no disrespect intended!
Thank you again Maddie for being an amazing example.
 

Theredmilf

Ruby Lust, The Red MILF
Dec 9, 2016
295
121
43
Ottawa / Gatineau
www.theredmilf.com
I am sorry if my opinion about the stigmatization of sex workers doesn't conform to your approval should I be vilified for believing that it will be a battle of mass undertaking, or it may remain the same. The process of changing peoples opinions which is what stigma is, a state of mind. I Agree that over time with reforms and laws things may change.

I do not condone any violence towards anyone, nor do I deny that stigma is a factor that fuels violence against sex workers, my opinion that the violence against clients is just as real and to mitigate which one is worse is clouding the issue.

I can carry on a conversation when I am not trying to defend my opinions. None of my statements were false and based on real life facts.

I am in favor of decimalizing, regulating and licensing sex worker.

In all this turmoil only one post stands out with the right attitude, all providers should follow her lead.



Thank you again Maddie for being an amazing example.
I’m not judging you nor vilifying you. You could be otherwise be a super nice dude.

I’m calling out your statements about suffering the same cross as SWs as being utter malarkey. Some of us potentially face wood chippers, you might lose the occasional deposit due to poor choices and unreseached prospective “gems”. Often at the hands of exploitative dudes rather than SWs. I’m not saying I agree with unethical business practices, I actually very much disagree with treating clients in any way but respectfully and lovingly, but I am saying you are making false and truly offensive equations.

Also, please don’t play the game where you try to pit one SW against another by praising one. We support each other, we want one another to succeed and share real friendships and caring. All successful professionals actually have a great attitude towards our gents and one another or we would have failed long ago.

But seriously, don’t ask us to smile when you throw dirt right in our faces. That goes beyond customer service to expecting an engratiating servitude. Your comments about you suffering the same as SWs who get raped, beaten and murdered are just disrespectful. You should retract these comments because you’re just wrong and perpetuating harm, ergo the stigma that you started this thread to combat.
 
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Amber Glory

Member
Apr 16, 2019
43
61
18
I’m not judging you nor vilifying you. You could be otherwise super nice dude.

I’m calling out your statements about suffering the same cross as SWs as being utter malarkey. Some of us potentially face wood chippers, you might lose the occasional deposit due to poor choices and unreseached prospective “gems”. Often at the hands of exploitative dudes rather than SWs. I’m not saying I agree with unethical business practices, I actually very much disagree with treating clients in any way but respectfully and lovingly, but I am saying you are making false and truly offensive equations.

Also, please don’t play the game where you try to pit one SW against another by praising one. We support each other, we want one another to succeed and share real friendships & love. All successful professionals actually have a great attitude towards our gents and one another or we would have failed long ago.

But seriously, don’t ask us to smile when you throw dirt right in our faces. That goes beyond customer service to expecting an engratiating servitude. Your comments about you suffering the same as SWs who get raped, beaten and murdered are just disrespectful. You should retract these comments because you’re just wrong and perpetuating harm, ergo the stigma that you started this thread to combat.
Beautifully said, thank you!
 

curiousm7

Active member
Jul 12, 2012
694
71
28
I’m not judging you nor vilifying you. You could be otherwise super nice dude.

I’m calling out your statements about suffering the same cross as SWs as being utter malarkey. Some of us potentially face wood chippers, you might lose the occasional deposit due to poor choices and unreseached prospective “gems”. Often at the hands of exploitative dudes rather than SWs. I’m not saying I agree with unethical business practices, I actually very much disagree with treating clients in any way but respectfully and lovingly, but I am saying you are making false and truly offensive equations.

Also, please don’t play the game where you try to pit one SW against another by praising one. We support each other, we want one another to succeed and share real friendships & love. All successful professionals actually have a great attitude towards our gents and one another or we would have failed long ago.

But seriously, don’t ask us to smile when you throw dirt right in our faces. That goes beyond customer service to expecting an engratiating servitude. Your comments about you suffering the same as SWs who get raped, beaten and murdered are just disrespectful. You should retract these comments because you’re just wrong and perpetuating harm, ergo the stigma that you started this thread to combat.
Absolutely agreed. Equating danger as a client with danger as a provider is like equating apples with cabbage. Not even close to the same.

Being a client for years and having been in a relationship with a provider, I can tell you from first hand experience that it is very different.
 

gibarian

Active member
Aug 28, 2019
218
230
43
I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. What I'm getting lately is that you have to check your opinions before you post here now. I don't agree with the OP but damn
What are you even talking about?

All of Lickylick's posts are still in here. Nothing was deleted or edited. The thread is still open. The moderators haven't threatened any action.

So it sounds like what you're actually saying is "What I'm getting lately is that you have to check your opinions before you post here now OR SOMEONE MIGHT TELL YOU THOSE OPINIONS ARE WRONG". You seem sad that bad opinions are being contested and that the hgih-fiving, echo chamber quality of the board has faded.
 

ErectileReptile

( . )( . )
Feb 17, 2021
55
82
18
Between big juggs
Putting all attacks of opinions aside, I'll provide my opinion on the topic.

I do think de-criminalizing/legalizing escorting will reduce the stigma, but not fully.

Here is my view (which does NOT mean it is shared by everyone and that's okay).

There's the religions, marriage, and non-SW women factors. I don't believe these will ever fully accept the escorting industry.

There's the Taboo factor which I like. It's fun to do taboo things and have to hide it. If it becomes too open and normal, I think it would lose some of its appeal and excitement in some way.

Escorting isn't an open topic that most of the general population are for. Clients are generally not opened to say they pay to have sex with escorts. Even most escorts, I'm sure they aren't opened to say to everyone they get money to have sex with men.

Safety would be improved, trafficking would be reduced. Those are two big positives. Although perhaps the black market could get even darker?

More and more girls would probably join the escorting industry and guys would have more selection. As mentioned by someone, this could drive rates down. Although government would find a way to take a share.

I agree this is an interesting topic to discuss and read, if everyone can provide their respectful opinions without trashing anybody else's.

Not a simple topic as we see in this thread. I think we can all agree that there is a stigma, it would good if there wasn't one, it will take a long time before it goes away, likely not in everyone's current lifetime that post here.
 

CuddleBuddy2

Cuddle Seeker
May 20, 2018
367
192
43
You can't compare the risks Clients face to what SWers do. Yes both can mitigate the risks to a certain degree but many SWers don't have the luxury to. Decriminization would help with safety for all. Legalization is not in the best interest of both parties.

Here's an article which explains the difference between Decriminalization and Legalization


We still have ways to go to eliminate the Stigma around SW but I think it's possible. Will everyone be accepting of SW in the future, maybe not and there is no need for everyone to accept or embrace SWers. Prejudices die hard.
Racism is banned in most countries if not all but there are still racists in the world.
As long as laws protect SWers and their clients and their rights and protects them from discrimination, we'll be fine.
SWers are usually open minded people who could care less of what others think and don't need anyones approval for what they do. The Stigma affects clients more IMO.
 

gibarian

Active member
Aug 28, 2019
218
230
43
SWers are usually open minded people who could care less of what others think and don't need anyones approval for what they do. The Stigma affects clients more IMO.
I agree with most of your post, but take issue with this last part.

Sometimes it seems like people conflate 'stigma' with 'shame', but they're not synonymous. Clients can avoid externalized stigma by keeping their interests a secret. We may still feel shame (and I'm all for a society that stops imposing/reinforcing those feelings) but that's not really the stigma we're talking about. The stigma that sex workers endure is expressed in actual, material terms, and can be unavoidable (ie. they can't perpetually hide their job, like we can perpetually hide the fact that we're clients).

Like, when a client needs to prove income/employment for some official reason, their status as a client is never going to interfere with that... but if a SW has to do the same they may need to expose their job to a stranger, and then face real consequences/judgment for doing so. If they want to get a civilian job at some point they can't use their work experience as a SW without exposing themselves to judgment... but as a client I would never have any reason to include my status as a client on a resume. As clients, our banks/payment processors will never identify us as clients and fuck with us, but SWs identified by financial institutions often face unfair consequences. I'm sure there are dozens of other ways this stigma expresses itself, but the actual SWs on the board will have much better examples than I do (because, unfortunately, they've probably all experienced a multitude of them).