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Valcazar

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Mar 27, 2014
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Of course criminals will find other loopholes.
But they use Crypto now because it serves them well.
If it stops serving them well, they will stop using it.

You and Leary think regulation will actualize the potential. A whole bunch of crypto fans think regulation will kill it.
What I found interesting was seeing someone boost crypto by saying regulation would make it good.
Tesla listing bitcoin will help with speculation and is good marketing to those people but doesn't do much else if all they are saying is that you can use bitcoin as a payment system.

This is why many of us believe we are still early and this will solve a lot of the issues faced with fiat today. I don’t want to see fiat go away completely, I want the market to decide.
What are these "issues" with fiat money?
 
Mar 5, 2015
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Of course criminals will find other loopholes.
But they use Crypto now because it serves them well.
If it stops serving them well, they will stop using it.

You and Leary think regulation will actualize the potential. A whole bunch of crypto fans think regulation will kill it.
What I found interesting was seeing someone boost crypto by saying regulation would make it good.
Tesla listing bitcoin will help with speculation and is good marketing to those people but doesn't do much else if all they are saying is that you can use bitcoin as a payment system.



What are these "issues" with fiat money?
In that video starting at 7:45 Kevin talks about his issue with fx trader.

I am no where near anything to a knowledgeable business or financial person that can provide valuable global options on this. I know how to make money for myself with this stuff and have my opinions which I believe based on my observations. My observable issue with fiat is that governments especially if they are incompetent or corrupt can cause hyperinflation to their currency and their people especially the commoner suffers because their life saving turns to nothing in a few years. Sometimes they are even blocked from taking money out of banks. Many countries have experienced this recent. If the people have invested into crypto they would at least hedge against their political cause for hyper inflations. In El Salvador more people have a crypto wallet then a bank account. So even if their money goes to shit they will have some protection on their investment as long as they have access to a phone or computer and internet.


My other issue is the speed and inconvenience of using fiat world wide , exchanging, and sending fiat.

For expert opinion you can search online the issues with fiat. I am not experienced enough to offer value here .
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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In that video starting at 7:45 Kevin talks about his issue with fx trader.
He wants a middle man eliminated.

My observable issue with fiat is that governments especially if they are incompetent or corrupt can cause hyperinflation to their currency and their people especially the commoner suffers because their life saving turns to nothing in a few years.
"Fiat can be volatile" isn't actually much of an argument that favors crypto.

Sometimes they are even blocked from taking money out of banks.
Crypto as an alternate gold is what it is, but that is just an alternate exchange to fiat. It's more portable than gold, cool, but it's just serving the same role there.

In El Salvador more people have a crypto wallet then a bank account. So even if their money goes to shit they will have some protection on their investment as long as they have access to a phone or computer and internet.
Yes, they were promised "$30 in bitcoin for free" if they signed up. Most haven't been able to use it, if I recall. Lots were selling their free $30 for $25 cash because it was basically impossible to use the wallet (that's not getting into all the stolen wallets). And, of course, that's assuming the President isn't just using the number of downloads and saying that is the number of people using the wallet, even if they had to download more than once to get it to work.

For expert opinion you can search online the issues with fiat. I am not experienced enough to offer value here .
The whole other thread about how "crypto is going to replace fiat" is just repackaged goldbuggery?
That's this part.
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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I think that’s a common misconception. Criminals will just find other loopholes and ways to run their criminal activities even if this means through other crypto or fiat or gold or government or leverage or anything else.

Like Mr. Wonderful says there is trillions of dollars waiting for proper regulation to actualize in potential. Once proper regulation is in place it will attract institutional investors and discourage criminal activity in a particular asset and will find direct use case based on need like in that example provided in that video. There is many more potential opportunities waiting to be actualized and implemented with the right regulation. When Tesla lists bitcoin again this will give it direct value and validity. Same with SpaceX the world internet provider plus many others. This is why many of us believe we are still early and this will solve a lot of the issues faced with fiat today. I don’t want to see fiat go away completely, I want the market to decide.
Here is your main mistake. Investors do not buy crypto currency as it does not produce anything. Speculators are the one who trade it. And speculator trade it for as long as they expect the price to go up. But, since crypto does not and will not (by its definition) ever pay any dividends, the speculators will run out of money at some point on time and the bubble will burst. This is the main difference between crypto and stocks, since stocks represent the ownership of production technology and assets, and, therefore it creates value (again, for Butler and co., I am talking about crypto as a coins, not as a blockchain technology and owning crypto coins does not represent ownership of any technology)
 
Mar 5, 2015
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Here is your main mistake. Investors do not buy crypto currency as it does not produce anything. Speculators are the one who trade it. And speculator trade it for as long as they expect the price to go up. But, since crypto does not and will not (by its definition) ever pay any dividends, the speculators will run out of money at some point on time and the bubble will burst. This is the main difference between crypto and stocks, since stocks represent the ownership of production technology and assets, and, therefore it creates value (again, for Butler and co., I am talking about crypto as a coins, not as a blockchain technology and owning crypto coins does not represent ownership of any technology)
I can purchase goods and services with bitcoin and more and more institutional investors are getting on board.

I am not just getting is an an investment opportunity, I am also getting it to spend on goods and services especially through companies that make it seamless.

In example for miner machines you can only buy this with crypto at certain companies with high end miners. These are very scarce and get bought up as soon as you can buy especially if directly from the source. You can’t use credit card or fiat at these stores. Some services also only work with crypto like to send and receive tips. I was a content creator in the past and will most likely do it again for fun and would love to be paid in crypto. This is more then just speculation. You can tip people directly with bitcoin and join paid spaces if you want to and pay in crypto. This is not available with fiat on Twitter. So you can produce content and get paid in crypto for it.

Tesla will enable the option to buy their vehicles with bitcoin as confirmed by Elon at the BWord conference. This is more then speculation.

Eventually other products and services will only be available to purchase via crypto.

I can’t do this with stocks. With crypto I can just mine and directly send funds for a product or service. I can’t do that with stocks.
 
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fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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I can purchase goods and services with bitcoin and more and more institutional investors are getting on board.

I am not just getting is an an investment opportunity, I am also getting it to spend on goods and services especially through companies that make it seamless.

In example for miner machines you can only buy this with crypto at certain companies with high end miners. These are very scarce and get bought up as soon as you can buy especially if directly from the source. You can’t use credit card or fiat at these stores. Some services also only work with crypto like to send and receive tips. I was a content creator in the past and will most likely do it again for fun and would love to be paid in crypto. This is more then just speculation. You can tip people directly with bitcoin and join paid spaces if you want to and pay in crypto. This is not available with fiat on Twitter. So you can produce content and get paid in crypto for it.

Tesla will enable the option to buy their vehicles with bitcoin as confirmed by Elon at the BWord conference. This is more then speculation.

Eventually other products and services will only be available to purchase via crypto.

I can’t do this with stocks. With crypto I can just mine and directly send funds for a product or service. I can’t do that with stocks.
My comment refereed to your statement that investors will buy crypto. What you described above is the use of cryprto as a method of payment (like INTERAC, checks, VISA, PayPal, etc.). Nothing in your above post explains why INVESTORS (as opposite to SPECULATORS) will want to trade crypto.
 
Mar 5, 2015
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My comment refereed to your statement that investors will buy crypto. What you described above is the use of cryprto as a method of payment (like INTERAC, checks, VISA, PayPal, etc.). Nothing in your above post explains why INVESTORS (as opposite to SPECULATORS) will want to trade crypto.
It’s a no brainer why investors will want to invest in bitcoin. It has outperformed more then 10 times the 2nd ranked assed class since 2011. 1634183304783.png

You need to be asking your connection to reality if you consider yourself an investor and can’t see the obvious logical choice here and ask why your ideas are stopping you from earning such solid returns and cant comprehend the obvious and see the numbers that are right in front of you. Your ideology and paradigm lock is limiting you from seeing reality for what it is. You will ignore these numbers and long term performance and will keep saying to yourself how much of a speculation it is. You know what they say for people who keep repeating the same things over and over again but keep expecting different results.

Returns in the past 10 years.
1634183468283.png

This is a no brainer. I can’t help you if you can’t see the obvious and you let some delusional ideas cloud your judgement.

I can’t help you. You can bring a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink.
 
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fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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It’s a no brainer why investors will want to invest in bitcoin. It has outperformed more then 10 times the 2nd ranked assed class since 2011. View attachment 93027

You need to be asking your connection to reality if you consider yourself an investor and can’t see the obvious logical choice here and ask why your ideas are stopping you from earning such solid returns and cant comprehend the obvious and see the numbers that are right in front of you. Your ideology and paradigm lock is limiting you from seeing reality for what it is. You will ignore these numbers and long term performance and will keep saying to yourself how much of a speculation it is. You know what they say for people who keep repeating the same things over and over again but keep expecting different results.

Returns in the past 10 years.
View attachment 93028

This is a no brainer. I can’t help you if you can’t see the obvious and you let some delusional ideas cloud your judgement.

I can’t help you. You can bring a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink.
Yet you failed again to explain why INVESTORS (as opposite to SPECULATORS) want to buy crypto. And, please, do not use past returns in your argument - they are completely irrelevant for future returns.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
10,863
9,546
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My comment refereed to your statement that investors will buy crypto. What you described above is the use of cryprto as a method of payment (like INTERAC, checks, VISA, PayPal, etc.). Nothing in your above post explains why INVESTORS (as opposite to SPECULATORS) will want to trade crypto.
To be fair, he is referencing O'Leary talking about it that way.
 

poker

Everyone's hero's, tell everyone's lies.
Jun 1, 2006
2,467
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Niagara
That's sort of an interesting video.
Kevin O'Leary says that if crypto could be regulated and tracked, all the big institutions would rush in.
But of course, the crypto evangelists absolutely hate regulation and have repeatedly insisted that regulating crypto would destroy it.

An interesting dilemma.
Once the institutions are in... do they really need the "purests"?
 

poker

Everyone's hero's, tell everyone's lies.
Jun 1, 2006
2,467
897
113
Niagara
Bottom line. Crypto is still speculation. Yes, you can technically use it for purchases... but in reality, it's far too volatile for the avg person. Can the avg family put their paychecks in and see its value drop in half overnight?

Yes people are making money. People are losing money too. Besides, too many billionaires buying, and doing the old pump and dump. I prefer to invest in real things and own real companies.
 
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Bottom line. Crypto is still speculation. Yes, you can technically use it for purchases... but in reality, it's far too volatile for the avg person. Can the avg family put their paychecks in and see its value drop in half overnight?

Yes people are making money. People are losing money too. Besides, too many billionaires buying, and doing the old pump and dump. I prefer to invest in real things and own real companies.
Only people losing on crypto are the paper hands and the ones who don’t know what they are doing and investing in actual shit coins. Even the trading hamster outperformed the s&p 500 and bitcoin since summer of this year.

Volatility is very good and a lot of money to be made here if you know what you are doing.

When the average person can put their money in and feel safe it will not drop by 30-% overnight is when it is too late and a sign to look for other investment if you are after 10x+ returns.

Right now the only way to have a true piece of mind in crypto is only invest what you can lose. Or just mine and take small profits out each month. Best way to invest in crypto is 2x to 10x, cash out on at least 70% of your profits and keep the remain 30% in. Then you don’t give a fuck what happens and can easily sell the rips buy the dips. It can be very taxing psychological to see your investment go from $1800 to $1200 to $24,000 in a month and back down quicker then it rose. This happened with me and Dogecoin. Luckily I was able to stay disciplined and managed to pull out a good profit and keep 30% in. That really fucks with your mind. Also they say holding works just fine, not as thrilling but as you can see with bitcoin would have provided significant returns.

Problem with crypto is that your average old school investor just can’t understand it and it bothers them that it still exists and keeps reminding them each year how much they don’t know about investing when their education made them believe they are qualified. This is when you get them shit taking it and saying all this drivel. Just ask them to show you their portfolio this year and will shut them up.

This below is accurate if you get in and don’t know what you are doing or if you can’t handle the mind FUD...

1634243854992.png
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
10,863
9,546
113
Bottom line. Crypto is still speculation. Yes, you can technically use it for purchases... but in reality, it's far too volatile for the avg person. Can the avg family put their paychecks in and see its value drop in half overnight?

Yes people are making money. People are losing money too. Besides, too many billionaires buying, and doing the old pump and dump. I prefer to invest in real things and own real companies.
|2 /-\ | /|/ has been very clear that he is in it for pure speculation. He doesn't even do the "I am going to pretend it is actually about all these good things and/or revolution" dance to justify it.
It is volatile and you can make big money on it if you time it right. If Musk tweets, you can grab big cash. That it is fundamentally bullshit doesn't matter and RAIN doesn't pretend it does. It's just purely about getting as much cash as he can.
 
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fall

Well-known member
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|2 /-\ | /|/ has been very clear that he is in it for pure speculation. He doesn't even do the "I am going to pretend it is actually about all these good things and/or revolution" dance to justify it.
It is volatile and you can make big money on it if you time it right. If Musk tweets, you can grab big cash. That it is fundamentally bullshit doesn't matter and RAIN doesn't pretend it does. It's just purely about getting as much cash as he can.
The problem is that he calls what he is doing "investment" instead of :speculation". For me, they are two very different things and it is too bad many people do not know the difference.
 
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The problem is that he calls what he is doing "investment" instead of :speculation". For me, they are two very different things and it is too bad many people do not know the difference.
I thought it is all glorified gambling with a fancy name 🌝
 

fall

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2010
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I thought it is all glorified gambling with a fancy name 🌝
yep, like any other pyramid scheme, but a bit more exciting since it lasts for long time and can go up and down. As long as you were at the beginning and already partially cashed out, you are good.
 
Mar 5, 2015
5,516
610
113
|2 /-\ | /|/ has been very clear that he is in it for pure speculation. He doesn't even do the "I am going to pretend it is actually about all these good things and/or revolution" dance to justify it.
It is volatile and you can make big money on it if you time it right. If Musk tweets, you can grab big cash. That it is fundamentally bullshit doesn't matter and RAIN doesn't pretend it does. It's just purely about getting as much cash as he can.
I don’t dispute this. I want to make the best returns so one day I can buy a silboat.

I do think bitcoin will protect people like in hyperinflation. It’s so sad to see what is happening in countries like Venezuela. I care about this. I been there once to margarita island and have very fond memories and exp. All this other stuff is nice like decentralization and protect against politics and corruption and corrupt governments and inequality, but it’s not my battle. It’s also nice to use it to buy stuff and make tips based on your social media and engagement.

The only stock that I can say I care about is TSLA and then it will be SpaceX when it IPOs. One time I sold and tried to hold off for 1 week and couldn’t do it. My wife could even tell I was all messed up. I felt like shit and said to myself this is what I believe in I need to support this with everything I have. I need to be a part of it and see it grow and feel like I support this disruption and technological innovation and this vision for a better world. I bought back in and said to myself I will not sell until 10 years or when I retire or if I need the money. I am not trading it and will use my retirement to keep adding.

This was actually why original I got into AMC, GME and Dogecoin. I just wanted to buy more Tesla stock but got lost in the process. So now it is two goals. Focus on Tesla as first priority and try to also invest towards a sailboat within 10 years.
 
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Mar 5, 2015
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yep, like any other pyramid scheme, but a bit more exciting since it lasts for long time and can go up and down. As long as you were at the beginning and already partially cashed out, you are good.
I don’t have experience with pyramid schemes nor am I interesting in joining one.

If you guys want to call bitcoin pyramid or speculation it is fine. In my mind it is a form of digital currency with decentralization at its vision.

I believe it is helping people and that I can gain good returns investing in it and can help achieve my goals and encourage creating content and being rewarded for it.
 

sprite09

Active member
Aug 10, 2020
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LOL, still going on?

Let me talk like Kevin O'Leary here: At the end of the day, it's all about MAKING MONEY!

But, everyone has a different risk tolerance; if you can't handle the high volaility of crypto, then, yes, you shouldn't get in because you WILL lose money (i.e., panic sell). Quite happens in the stock market, as well, and thus many fear the stock market, too.

But, if you guys spend a lot of whores and/or strippers, just allocate some money towards crypto and have some fun, unless you really need to bust a nut from them that often. LOL!
 
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