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KC's Patrick Mahomes signs $503 million deal!

gcostanza

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John Wick

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NFL contract. How much of it is real and how much is fake to make the NFL look good? Its not like MLB contract which is all guaranteed.
Not sure that this contract makes anyone look good to the general public. At present, to announce something like this contract that is clearly excessive in nature feels really tone-deaf.
 

saxon

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Dec 2, 2009
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Smoke and mirrors. Exactly as I thought. Only $63 million is fully guaranteed. And $141.4 million against injury. The rest only if he continues to play at his current level.
By comparison, Mike Trout of the Angels, who has never taken his team to the playoffs, has a 12-year fully guaranteed $426.5 million contract whether his play declines or he gets injured and never plays another day.
Trout is without question the best all around ball player in the world. He deserves every penny of his contract.
 

The Oracle

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By comparison, Mike Trout of the Angels, who has never taken his team to the playoffs, has a 12-year fully guaranteed $426.5 million contract whether his play declines or he gets injured and never plays another day.
Trout is without question the best all around ball player in the world. He deserves every penny of his contract.
Agree with Saxon. I can't say enough about Trout. He's a five tool guy that's got a good head on his shoulders. as a Yankee fan I see Mickey Mantle without the partying. The sky is the limit for his legacy. He always places the team first as well. You have to empty your wallet for those types.
 

Problem_child

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It’s a lot of money but the kid deserved to get paid . I know they will have less money to spend now but players of his caliber will always attract talented teammates that want to play for a winner like Mahomes
Unfortunately not every team can imitate/copy New England’s way of doing things
 

gcostanza

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Legacy in baseball, or any sports for that matter, is not created by regular season play. It is created in the playoffs where pressure is at maximum. For all his regular season greatness, even with the great Albert Pujols by his side for the past 8 years, Trout has been to the playoffs just once in 2014 and he hit a measly 1-for-12 in the series against the Royals.

Mickey Mantle, on the other hand, holds World Series records for most home runs, RBIs, extra base hits, runs, walks and total bases and won 7 rings.

So if its all the same to you, do not mention Mike Trout and Mickey mantle in the same sentence.
Would it be okay, sir, if I may, sir, mention Ted Williams in the same sentence as Mickey Mantle, sir?

Ted played a grand total of 7 postseason games, and, if my research is accurate, holds no World Series records.

Mike Trout is on a career path that indicates he will have a better overall career than the Yankee who must not be named.

The great Albert Pujols? Yeah, no.
Pujols' W.A.R. with the Angels over the past 8 seasons is 6.3 (total). 3.3 of that W.A.R. was in his 1st season with the club. Over the past 7 years, Albert Pujols has averaged less than 0.5 Wins Above Replacement level player each season. For the last 3 years, his W.A.R. is Minus 1.6.
Considering Mike Trout has not only provided exceptional play his entire career with Anaheim (Los Angeles) Angels, he's done this work while dragging the corpse of Albert Pujols around.
 
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maurice93

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Legacy in baseball, or any sports for that matter, is not created by regular season play. It is created in the playoffs where pressure is at maximum. For all his regular season greatness, even with the great Albert Pujols by his side for the past 8 years, Trout has been to the playoffs just once in 2014 and he hit a measly 1-for-12 in the series against the Royals.

Mickey Mantle, on the other hand, holds World Series records for most home runs, RBIs, extra base hits, runs, walks and total bases and won 7 rings.

So if its all the same to you, do not mention Mike Trout and Mickey mantle in the same sentence.
I would have to strongly disagree. Legacy in baseball is largely about numbers or how great you were in regular season.

300, 500, 714, 755, 3000, 60, 61, 73, 4256, 4191. baseball fans know what those are much more than a players success in the playoffs.

And as costanza noted above there are many greats who have never shined much on the big stage. In large part because of limited teams making It in the past.

A baseball players legacy, moreso than any other sport, is less about postseason.

Baseball has great postseason moments. But almost all greats are defined by what they do in regular season.
 

The Oracle

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Legacy in baseball, or any sports for that matter, is not created by regular season play. It is created in the playoffs where pressure is at maximum. For all his regular season greatness, even with the great Albert Pujols by his side for the past 8 years, Trout has been to the playoffs just once in 2014 and he hit a measly 1-for-12 in the series against the Royals.

Mickey Mantle, on the other hand, holds World Series records for most home runs, RBIs, extra base hits, runs, walks and total bases and won 7 rings.

So if its all the same to you, do not mention Mike Trout and Mickey mantle in the same sentence.
Listen nobodies a bigger Yankee fan than I am. In my circles the Mick is seen as a deity. So I don't pass out these compliments lightly.

When I see Trout play this marvellous game I swear I can see Mickey. They have the same skill set and demeanour.

As for post season results when it really counts well as G. Costanza was pointing out you have to get there first. The Angels aren't exactly a juggernaut now are they? And Albert well the Cardinals let him walk at just the right time.

Check out Billy Martin's post season batting stats if you have the time. Nobody can say he didn't come to play when the bell tolled.
 

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Legacy in baseball, or any sports for that matter, is not created by regular season play. It is created in the playoffs where pressure is at maximum. For all his regular season greatness, even with the great Albert Pujols by his side for the past 8 years, Trout has been to the playoffs just once in 2014 and he hit a measly 1-for-12 in the series against the Royals.

Mickey Mantle, on the other hand, holds World Series records for most home runs, RBIs, extra base hits, runs, walks and total bases and won 7 rings.

So if its all the same to you, do not mention Mike Trout and Mickey mantle in the same sentence.
To have great career numbers you need talent.

To have playoff success you need to be with a great organization/team.
 

gcostanza

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Anyone who hasnt delivered under pressure cannot be said to have the same skill set as Mickey Mantle. This point seems to be lost on you and others so let me site more examples.
Get back to Patrick Mahomes. Chiefs trailing 24-0 in the second quarter against the Texans, blitzing them for 28 unanswered points by half time and winning going away 51-31. Dousing the Titans after trailing by double digits. Trailing the 49ers 20-10 in the 4th quarter and converting a 3rd and 15 on the way to winning the SB. That's a gamer.
Tom Brady digging the Patriots out of a 25-point deficit by converting ridiculous 4th downs and two pointers against the Falcons. That's a gamer.
Reggie Jackson smacking 3 home runs on first pitches in three consecutive at bats against the Dodgers to win the World Series in 1978 and earning the nickname Mr. October. Thats a gamer.
The Babe putting a curse on the Red Sox with multiple championships in the Bronx. Thats a gamer.
Big Papi delivering multiple championships to Boston after several years of drought. Thats a gamer
Kirk Gibson hitting a walk off home run on one leg against Dennis Eckersley to win the World Series for the Dodgers in 1988. Before that, he had smacked a 3-run homer against the Goose who refused to walk him with a base open, to win the World Series for the Tigers in 1984. Thats a gamer

Mike Trout = Tony Gwynn = Ken Griffey Jr = Karl Malone = Charles Barkley, etc., etc. Delivering when there is nothing on the line is not my idea of a gamer. Seems to be yours. So congratulations. I am done.
Do you think Mickey Mantle was a better player than Ted Williams?
A simple Yes or No will suffice.
 

gcostanza

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Yes, Mickey Mantle was a better player than Ted Williams, who played just one world series in his career and hit zero home runs against the best of the best. He never won anything. Nothing. But he was great at feasting on bottom crawling pitchers.
We shall agree to disagree.

Let us not forget the (was it 3? 4? 5?) seasons Ted Williams lost to military service.
Prime seasons too, in World War 2, his age 24, 25, 26 seasons.
He played only 43 games in the '52 & '53 seasons.

But, yeah, he never won a thing.
Feasted only on bottom crawling pitchers.

Using your logic, Ed Sprague is a better ball player than Ted Williams.
After all, Ed has two World Series championships to his name.
 

Darts

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Williams, Mantle and Mays were way before my time. Based on what I heard, Mantle and Mays were more complete players. Williams was a pure hitter (5 years of military probably cost him over 150 HR's and 500 RBI's).
 

gcostanza

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Williams, Mantle and Mays were way before my time. Based on what I heard, Mantle and Mays were more complete players. Williams was a pure hitter (5 years of military probably cost him over 150 HR's and 500 RBI's).
The only downside to Ted Williams defensively was (his lack of) speed.

I would consider both Mays and Williams to be superior players to Mantle.
 

The Oracle

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The only downside to Ted Williams defensively was (his lack of) speed.

I would consider both Mays and Williams to be superior players to Mantle.
Mantle was shot at 32. He plain didn't take care of himself and was an alcoholic who loved the nightlife of the big apple.
From the age of 20 to 32 he was pure gold though. If he would have lived the life that Williams did he could have had 5 more solid years and we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's a what if though.

The guy that not very many people bring into these discussions is Henry Aaron. He was so much more than a homerun hitter.
 

gcostanza

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The guy that not very many people bring into these discussions is Henry Aaron. He was so much more than a homerun hitter.
Henry Aaron, also a better player than Mantle.
 

shack

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The only downside to Ted Williams defensively was (his lack of) speed.

I would consider both Mays and Williams to be superior players to Mantle...
...when considering their actual on-field accomplishments as opposed to the skills they possessed and the flashiness that they could display..
 
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