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Joe Biden Just Appointed His Climate Movement Liaison. It’s a Fossil-Fuel Industry Ally.

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Even if he did, you would immediately say he did it wrong or doesn't mean it.
Not if he actually did it. And I mean sign it into law. Or order all troops out of Iraq. And shut down the bases.

What will you do if he goes to war? Or signs off on the cuts? Will you make excuses for him?
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Wow ! An environmental activist does not approve of the appointments
What a surprise !!!

As soon as I see the word "Activist" I wonder how biased, uncompromising and uninformed they are
Particularly if they are a rich celebrity

Does Erin Brockovich's opinion matter more than that of John Q Public?
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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Fossil fuel is not going away immediately. The important thing is to chart a course toward its end on a reasonable and attainable basis. The policy will come form Biden who is committed to that end. It will happen to soon for some and too late for others. Biden I expect will be somewhere in the middle which may please no one but is probably the right approach.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Fossil fuel is not going away immediately. The important thing is to chart a course toward its end on a reasonable and attainable basis. The policy will come form Biden who is committed to that end. It will happen to soon for some and too late for others. Biden I expect will be somewhere in the middle which may please no one but is probably the right approach.
Its not going away immediately, but its going away.
Already wind/solar is cheaper than natural gas.
EV's will take over soon.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Not if he actually did it. And I mean sign it into law. Or order all troops out of Iraq. And shut down the bases.

What will you do if he goes to war? Or signs off on the cuts? Will you make excuses for him?
What war? What cuts?

And again, you won't do this, because you will move the goalpoasts.
If Biden shuts down ANY base, you will say it isn't enough because he didn't shut them all down.
If he moves troops out of Iraq, it won't be enough because it isn't all troops. If he moves all troops out of Iraq, it won't be enough because he didn't move all troops out of the Middle East.
If he reduced the Military Budget it won't be enough because he didn't reduce it more.
Etc. Etc.

But a thought exercise...

You can shut down the entire military budget and put the money into Universal Basic Income in exchange for killing Social Security, Medicare and repeal of Obamacare.
Do you do it?
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
Fossil fuel is not going away immediately.
This is an understatement. To be realistic expect fossil fuel
consumption to resume growth once the pandemic is over.

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Trudeau to miss 2020 emissions target by 99.2 per cent

Lorrie Goldstein
11 Nov 2020

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is poised to miss his 2020 target to reduce Canada’s industrial greenhouse gas emissions linked to human-induced climate change by 99.2%, based on his government’s latest publicly available data.

So of course we should take his 2030 and 2050 emission reduction targets seriously, right?

This is but one example of the fantasy world in which political discussions today about climate change are conducted in Canada and globally.

After the Trudeau government was elected in 2015, then environment and climate change minister Catherine McKenna said the emission reduction targets it inherited from the previous Stephen Harper government would be the minimum — “the floor” as she described it — of what Trudeau and Co. would achieve.

In 2016, Trudeau and McKenna amended that to simply achieving Harper’s targets — reducing emissions to 17% below 2005 levels by 2020 and to 30% below 2005 levels by 2030.

They said, repeatedly and emphatically, they were committed to achieving these targets.


Trudeau has since promised to exceed his 2030 target and achieve “net zero” emissions by 2050.

Now back to the real world.

Canada’s emissions in 2005 were 730 million tonnes, making Trudeau’s 2020 target 606 million tonnes, requiring a 124-million-tonne cut in 2005 emissions by 2020.

Canada’s emissions today — according to the latest government figures we have from 2018— are 729 million tonnes annually.

So, where the Trudeau government promised to reduce Canada’s emissions by 124 million tonnes compared to 2005 levels by 2020, he’s achieved one million tonnes, with less than two months to go — 99.2% short of his target.

When we get up-to-date emissions data from the Trudeau government, which typically lag two years behind reality, the Liberals will probably miss their target by less than 99.2%, because of the COVID-19 recession.

Recessions cause emissions to drop temporarily because people have less money to buy goods and services created with fossil fuel energy, which means almost everything.

But once the economy begins to recover, emissions start to rise again, which is exactly what happened in the 2008 global recession that began with the U.S. subprime mortgage scandal.

Trudeau’s 2030 and 2050 targets are also works of fantasy, which is not to single him out.

If Harper had won the 2015 federal election, he would have missed his targets too, probably by more than Trudeau.

This given that Harper was opposed to bringing in a national carbon tax/price.

Trudeau ran on doing so in the 2015 election and brought it in after he won.

Today, Trudeau’s national carbon tax/price is $30 per tonne of emissions, rising to $40 per tonne next year and $50 per tonne in 2022.

The problem with our politicians is that any promises they make on reducing emissions — promises federal Liberal and Conservative governments have been making and breaking for more than 30 years — is that to take them seriously requires “the willing suspension of disbelief.”

That phrase was coined by English poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge in the early 19th century, to describe the necessary willingness of the audience to intentionally abandon logic and critical thinking, in order to fully appreciate a fictional work of art.

That’s pretty much where we stand with governments not just in Canada, but globally, regarding their promises to reduce emissions.

Taking their commitments seriously requires the willing suspension of disbelief, given that in the real world, global emissions have gone up by 25% since 2005.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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What war? What cuts?

And again, you won't do this, because you will move the goalpoasts.
If Biden shuts down ANY base, you will say it isn't enough because he didn't shut them all down.
If he moves troops out of Iraq, it won't be enough because it isn't all troops. If he moves all troops out of Iraq, it won't be enough because he didn't move all troops out of the Middle East.
If he reduced the Military Budget it won't be enough because he didn't reduce it more.
Etc. Etc.

But a thought exercise...

You can shut down the entire military budget and put the money into Universal Basic Income in exchange for killing Social Security, Medicare and repeal of Obamacare.
Do you do it?

Ok so i will make it clear. And then its your turn.

If Biden removes all troops and closes the bases in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria then he will have officially ended the wars and gets full props. And if he doesnt start new ones he also gets full props. I will consider that a success.

And as to UBI I'm not completely sold on it yet either. So that's a non factor. However simply moving to a Universal Medicare system with solve so many problems that I will consider that an even bigger success than any war ending.

But he will do none of that. I'm confident.

Now if he adds troops, opens a new war front, cuts SS(that includes not increasing funding to cost of living index btw) and cuts Medicare/Medicaid, will you state he is a right winger. And it was a mistake to make him the nominee?

I doubt it. I think you will defend him.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Ok so i will make it clear. And then its your turn.

If Biden removes all troops and closes the bases in Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria then he will have officially ended the wars and gets full props. And if he doesnt start new ones he also gets full props. I will consider that a success.
I don't particularly believe you but I will be happy to be wrong if it happens.

And as to UBI I'm not completely sold on it yet either. So that's a non factor. However simply moving to a Universal Medicare system with solve so many problems that I will consider that an even bigger success than any war ending.
So would you take the deal or not?

But he will do none of that. I'm confident.
Obviously not, no one is offering this big a deal. I am asking as a thought experiment.

Now if he adds troops, opens a new war front, cuts SS(that includes not increasing funding to cost of living index btw) and cuts Medicare/Medicaid, will you state he is a right winger.

And it was a mistake to make him the nominee?

I doubt it. I think you will defend him.
Of course not, because none of that makes him a right winger. That's not how that works.

I'd would be against all of it, though. (I am going to assume you are talking about fucking with CPI-W as a measure for your cost of living statement there.)
I am never going to say it was a "mistake to make him the nomineee" because I actually believe if you win the most votes in a democracy it matters. I didn't vote for him but I accept he won.

If he expands or increases Medicare/Medicaid but doesn't go to Single Payer, will you give him props?
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Meh...Trump, biden Obama etc etc...they are investments...and those big people behind simply wanted to cash in their winnings...
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
27,523
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Looked up the Richmond guy. He seems a mixed bag.

But, as I suspected, Sirota misrepresented the situation. The Office of Public Engagement isn't the climate movement liaison. It is a clearing house that does outreach for external issues i general. Yes, it will talk to climate activists and businesses. It will also do that with anti-gun violence activists and the gun industry. It is basically the "here is a policy, you are outside government and want to make your point - this office handles meeting you".
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,714
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I don't particularly believe you but I will be happy to be wrong if it happens.



So would you take the deal or not?



Obviously not, no one is offering this big a deal. I am asking as a thought experiment.



Of course not, because none of that makes him a right winger. That's not how that works.

I'd would be against all of it, though. (I am going to assume you are talking about fucking with CPI-W as a measure for your cost of living statement there.)
I am never going to say it was a "mistake to make him the nomineee" because I actually believe if you win the most votes in a democracy it matters. I didn't vote for him but I accept he won.

If he expands or increases Medicare/Medicaid but doesn't go to Single Payer, will you give him props?
The fact you dont think anyone who goes to war in the ME or will cut social services is right wing says it all.

You don't have a clue what it means.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,460
5,127
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Lewiston, NY
What war? What cuts?

And again, you won't do this, because you will move the goalpoasts.
If Biden shuts down ANY base, you will say it isn't enough because he didn't shut them all down.
If he moves troops out of Iraq, it won't be enough because it isn't all troops. If he moves all troops out of Iraq, it won't be enough because he didn't move all troops out of the Middle East.
If he reduced the Military Budget it won't be enough because he didn't reduce it more.
Etc. Etc.

But a thought exercise...

You can shut down the entire military budget and put the money into Universal Basic Income in exchange for killing Social Security, Medicare and repeal of Obamacare.
Do you do it?
Unfortunately, only if you want a regime change...
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
27,523
48,737
113
The fact you dont think anyone who goes to war in the ME or will cut social services is right wing says it all.

You don't have a clue what it means.
And again, you dodge the question because you don't know how to actually think about policy.

I didn't say cutting social services isn't right wing. I said cutting social services doesn't make you a right winger.
That you don't have a clue what things mean is another reason no one can take you seriously.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,714
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And again, you dodge the question because you don't know how to actually think about policy.

I didn't say cutting social services isn't right wing. I said cutting social services doesn't make you a right winger.
That you don't have a clue what things mean is another reason no one can take you seriously.
War is Peace .......thanks Orwell....
 
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Kawailuvr

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Mar 13, 2017
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Trump is a terrible human being and glad he lost. But let’s not kid ourselves Biden is some kind of an angel. He got hundreds of millions from corporate interests. If he doesn’t reward them, they will not fund him next time around. Moreover, if elections could change the system, they would be illegal.
Kamala Harris is a POS as well
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Hey, if Biden comes out tomorrow and promotes Medicare for all, or ends a war, refuses to sign a large increase to the military budget, or any number of things that would help people I would give him props.

But he won't, will he?
The guy in question is a progressive which you should like. he's campaigned on expanded healthcare, voting rights, and criminal justice reform. The down side is the amount of donation's he's taken from the oil industry.

 
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