it is time to recognize Taiwan...

[barnacler]

...as an independent country, China be fucked.

They ARE an independent country! The only basis for the chinese government claiming Taiwan is the barrel of a gun.

Otherwise, they are poorer, more corrupt, don't believe in the rule of law, both domestic and international, suppress free speech, are dictators, anti-democratic, racists, bullies both internally and externally, so the world needs to stand up to them big-time.

 

[Valcazar]

So do you want to recognize the Republic of China and stop recognizing the People's Republic of China, or do you want the Republic of China to change its name to Taiwan and stop calling itself China or do you want them both to be China?

 

[james t kirk]

I've been saying for a couple of years now that China will attack Taiwan. And things are now definitely heating up. Unfortunately for Taiwan, they would be taking on a behemoth. Unless the USA gets involved, which I don't see happening under Biden, Taiwan is finished. That said an ecomic embargo of China by the western nations could prove to be very successful.

And to make matters that much worse, China is also rattling sabers at the Philipines. Now the Americans might let a Chinese attack on Taiwan slide, but they would never ever permit the Chinese to attack the Philipines without a serious retaliation.

Which would basically be World War 3.

We can only hope that the Russians are available to fight on the side of the West.

 

[K Douglas]

Taiwan should be formally recognized as a sovereign nation state long ago, before China became the super power it has. Too late now since our leaders have sold out to China.

 

[kstanb]

So do you want to recognize the Republic of China and stop recognizing the People's Republic of China, or do you want the Republic of China to change its name to Taiwan and stop calling itself China or do you want them both to be China?

Mainland China would immediately break relations with any country that recognizes Taiwan as independent or as the rightful "Republic of China". So it is a really tough call. Canada is not even a regional power while Continental China is now a superpower. A break in relations would hurt Canada a lot more than it will hurt Continental China

In other words, it is not wise for a mediocre welterweight boxer to start a fight with the heavyweight champion challenger, who is also a well known bully

 

[danmand]

Canada will only recognize Taiwan after USA recognizes Taiwan. Canada is USA's lapdog, remember.

If USA and others recognize Taiwan, The People's Republic of China will invade Taiwan, and the only question is if we all die or not.

Methink the genii here should hold their horses.

 

[mandrill]

I've been saying for a couple of years now that China will attack Taiwan. And things are now definitely heating up. Unfortunately for Taiwan, they would be taking on a behemoth. Unless the USA gets involved, which I don't see happening under Biden, Taiwan is finished. That said an ecomic embargo of China by the western nations could prove to be very successful.

And to make matters that much worse, China is also rattling sabers at the Philipines. Now the Americans might let a Chinese attack on Taiwan slide, but they would never ever permit the Chinese to attack the Philipines without a serious retaliation.

Which would basically be World War 3.

We can only hope that the Russians are available to fight on the side of the West.

Harder than it looks.

 

[oil&gas]

If Trump was in charge he'd be happy to recognize Taiwan.
But there would be a catch--he would not pay the bill of defending
Taiwan against invasion from the mainland. Not sure if Biden
is as smart. We and our allies could always send a fleet of
dinky battleships to Taiwan Strait for symbolic resistance to PRC's
carriers. But we must not sacrifice our soldiers' lives just to piss off
the Chinese.

 

[basketcase]

I've been saying for a couple of years now that China will attack Taiwan....

Thomas Friedman published an interesting point on this that both countries are so tied economically that a war would be counterproductive for both. Of course that presupposes rational leadership.

I think criticism of China has plenty of bipartisan support but I doubt many people will stand behind their values when it impacts them directly.

 

[danmand]

Harder than it looks.

Don't lose any sleep. The war enthusiasts here are always imagining their wet dreams of war coming true.
Russia fighting on the side of USA against China. How deranged can they be?

The return of Taiwan to China will happen by Quasi democratic means, as it happened to Hong Kong. Taiwan's economy is already deeply linked with China's. It is a matter of time, and the Chinese are patient.

 

[Darts]

Don't lose any sleep. The war enthusiasts here are always imagining their wet dreams of war coming true.
Russia fighting on the side of USA against China. How deranged can they be?

The return of Taiwan to China will happen by Quasi democratic means, as it happened to Hong Kong. Taiwan's economy is already deeply linked with China's. It is a matter of time, and the Chinese are patient.

Russia marched into Crimea and what did the West do? We made some noise about that being "not nice". So, what would the West do if the PRC invades Taiwan? We will say "not nice".

"The return of Taiwan to China will happen by Quasi democratic means, as it happened to Hong Kong. Taiwan's economy is already deeply linked with China's. It is a matter of time, and the Chinese are patient."

 

[Valcazar]

If Trump was in charge he'd be happy to recognize Taiwan.

Why would you think that?
Or maybe better - what do you mean by it?
He would just randomly tweet out something about Taiwan? Or something about the ROC being the real government?
Or do you mean he would make a formal declaration of Taiwan's independence and then abandon them?

What does "happy to recognize Taiwan" mean to someone like Trump?

 

[Valcazar]

Thomas Friedman published an interesting point on this that both countries are so tied economically that a war would be counterproductive for both.

Thomas Friedman should be ignored on just about everything.

 

[y2kmark]

From the people who brought you The Philippine war (deftly swept under the "Spanish American War" carpet), Vietnam and Afghanistan! Let's fight China half a world away on their doorstep!!!

 

[james t kirk]

If Trump was in charge he'd be happy to recognize Taiwan.
But there would be a catch--he would not pay the bill of defending
Taiwan against invasion from the mainland. Not sure if Biden
is as smart. We and our allies could always send a fleet of
dinky battleships to Taiwan Strait for symbolic resistance to PRC's
carriers. But we must not sacrifice our soldiers' lives just to piss off
the Chinese.

Just a couple of points.

1. The "battleship" is a class of ships that are the largest and mightiest of naval ships the world has ever seen. Using the word "dinky" to describe any battleship is incorrect. Leviathan maybe, but dinky? Never.

2. I'm not aware of a single battleship still in use today. The last battleships that were in service were the US Iowa class battleships and they (all 4 of them) date from World War 2 and were decommissioned a couple of times over the years, the last time being in the 90s. All 4 of them are now museums.

3. The American carrier fleet dwarfs anything else in the world. Not just in power, but numbers. The Chinese wouldn't have a prayer. Where the Chinese will get you is on land in a conventional battle. They will simply overrun you by sheer numbers.

 

[jcpro]

Forgotten in all of this is the fact that China, for all its progress, still does not have the capability to invade Taiwan and it won't have it for at least a decade or that Taiwan has a modern and professional military that can turn any invasion attempt into another turkey shoot. Crossing a sea is a logistical nightmare for any army and it requires massive and concentrated suppression of the Taiwanese defense systems and a near total air supremacy. Chinese communists cannot risk an uncertain conflict that has a potential of bringing the Chinese economy to a complete standstill and its all about survival for the criminals running China. So, we're pretty safe if we decide to recognize the Republic of China.

 

[jcpro]

Just a couple of points.

1. The "battleship" is a class of ships that are the largest and mightiest of naval ships the world has ever seen. Using the word "dinky" to describe any battleship is incorrect. Leviathan maybe, but dinky? Never.

2. I'm not aware of a single battleship still in use today. The last battleships that were in service were the US Iowa class battleships and they (all 4 of them) date from World War 2 and were decommissioned a couple of times over the years, the last time being in the 90s. All 4 of them are now museums.

3. The American carrier fleet dwarfs anything else in the world. Not just in power, but numbers. The Chinese wouldn't have a prayer. Where the Chinese will get you is on land in a conventional battle. They will simply overrun you by sheer numbers.

It's not only the numbers, but the operational experience and the carrier doctrine. The American fleet rules the seas and that's a fact. No one is even on the same continent when it comes to that.

 

[Darts]

It's not only the numbers, but the operational experience and the carrier doctrine. The American fleet rules the seas and that's a fact. No one is even on the same continent when it comes to that.

Yes, the storied U.S. 7th Fleet that crushed the IJN in WW II.
United States Seventh Fleet - Wikipedia

 

[danmand]

In any war scenario, that USA have simulated in the last 30 years, against a well armed opponent, a carrier survived about 30 minutes.

However, they are great against countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Darts]

And to make matters that much worse, China is also rattling sabers at the Philipines. Now the Americans might let a Chinese attack on Taiwan slide, but they would never ever permit the Chinese to attack the Philipines without a serious retaliation.

The American shed a lot of blood defending the Philippines in WWII. (The Filipinos refused the American's request to buildup their defenses prior to WW II.) Then the Filipinos kicked the Americans out of Subic Bay in the 1990's, then it appears they let the Americans partially back in again in circa 2015.

U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay - Wikipedia