Israel's Claim of Democracy Wears Thin - Bans Arab MK from Speaking in Knesset

[gryfin]

Like the finish rubbing off a cheap piece of furniture, Israel pretense at being a country for all its citizens was laid bare again as zionists in the Knesset voted to bar an Arab MK from addressing the assembly and representing those who voted her in. That's just part of it. She's been physically attacked by zionists in the Knesset and had a slew of other MK rights stripped from her.

"Israeli Arab MK Hanin Zuabi will be stripped of her right to address the Knesset and to participate in committee votes until the end of this parliamentary season, the Knesset Ethics Committee ruled on Monday.

The decision to penalize Zuabi, a lawmaker from the Balad party, comes in the wake of her participation in the Gaza-bound flotilla last year. Zuabi, who sailed on the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara, had already had certain parliamentary rights revoked by Knesset last July."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/nationa...privileges-for-role-in-gaza-flotilla-1.373859

 

[fuji]

We did similar things to Louis Riel here in Canada. Acts of Treason lead to that sort of thing. Surely committing an act of war against your own State should count as treason!

 

[toguy5252]

We did similar things to Louis Riel here in Canada. Acts of Treason lead to that sort of thing. Surely committing an act of war against your own State should count as treason!

Wow stripped her of her parliamentary privileges. That is really harsh. That is unless you consider most countries including Canada and the US where treason and/or aiding and abetting the enemy is punishable by prison and in some countries death.

 

[danmand]

We did similar things to Louis Riel here in Canada. Acts of Treason lead to that sort of thing. Surely committing an act of war against your own State should count as treason!

Act of war?? Treason?? You are a hoot.

 

[DATYdude]

That you read about this in a free Israeli newspaper that regularly opposes the government in editorial after editorial shows just how vibrant a democrazy Israel has.

 

[basketcase]

Maybe Israel should learn from the other vibrant democracies such as Syria and Iran and make the guy disappear instead.

 

[wigglee]

at least in canada we allowed the BQ to speak in parliament instead of throwing around inflamed rhetoric like "treason"...And Riel is a hero and a champion of minority rights....just like Israel we were committing injustices against a minority and it took strong leadership to stand up to it .

 

[DATYdude]

This is an unusual case where gryf is partially correct.

In Israel's current government disproportionate power is held by some real wingnuts who are not especially interested in democracy (mainly the religious and the Russians), and they are passing legislation that impedes people's right to protest against the occupation, settlements etc... But true to form gryf sees the results as proof that Israel ISN'T a democracy, which of course he gets wrong, in fact it proves that it is a democracy, it just is being run for now by a bunch of idiots. Don't tell me the Arabs didn't get the Israel they deserve, people's hearts have really hardened over the years. I would note that the MK in question - an Arab woman by the way - has petitioned the court for her privileges to be reinstated.

Arab woman elected to Israeli Parliament. Protests Israeli government policy. Parliament slaps her wrist. She petitions the court to have the wrist-slap reversed. We read about it in the newspaper. DEMOCRACY IN ACTION. *Yawn*

I don't see anything wrong - let alone treasonous - on the face of it for her to have participated in the flotilla last year as long as she didn't knowingly support Hamas in doing so.

I don't recall but what did gryf post about Harper proroguing Parliament, or the G20 summit? That Canada's democracy is a veneer? Anyway, gryf is the biggest clown in this forum and is best ignored.

 

[groggy]

This decision has to be taken in context of a series of other decisions by the right wing wingnuts running Israel right now, such as Foreign Minister Lieberman calling NGO's 'terrorists' and threatening punishing tax laws that would kill their funding. They are enough that there are quite a few articles warning about Israel losing its democratic status.

Here's what Uvi Avnery wrote recently (google him if you don't know him).

Soon to be enacted are a bill that forbids NGOs to accept donations of more than $5,000 from abroad, a bill that will impose an income tax of 45 percent on any NGO that is not specifically exempted by the government, a bill to compel universities to sing the national anthem on every possible occasion, the appointment of a parliamentary commission of inquiry to investigate the financial resources of left-wing [sic] organizations.

Looming over everything else is the explicit threat of right-wing factions to attack the hated “liberal” Supreme Court directly, shear it of its ability to overrule unconstitutional laws, and control the appointment of the Supreme Court judges.

Fifty-one years ago, on the eve of the Eichmann trial, I wrote a book about Nazi Germany. In the last chapter, I asked: “Can It Happen Here?”

My answer still stands: yes, it can.


Are you worried or are you just sticking your head back in the sand?

 

[DATYdude]

Can I be worried AND have my head in the sand?

It's certainly not the Israel I know, and that worries me, but like in most western countries since about 1980, governments have become more right-wing. All we can do is watch. I'm still more worried about Hamas and Hezbollah than I am about Israel.

 

[toguy5252]

This decision has to be taken in context of a series of other decisions by the right wing wingnuts running Israel right now, such as Foreign Minister Lieberman calling NGO's 'terrorists' and threatening punishing tax laws that would kill their funding. They are enough that there are quite a few articles warning about Israel losing its democratic status.

Here's what Uvi Avnery wrote recently (google him if you don't know him).

Soon to be enacted are a bill that forbids NGOs to accept donations of more than $5,000 from abroad, a bill that will impose an income tax of 45 percent on any NGO that is not specifically exempted by the government, a bill to compel universities to sing the national anthem on every possible occasion, the appointment of a parliamentary commission of inquiry to investigate the financial resources of left-wing [sic] organizations.

Looming over everything else is the explicit threat of right-wing factions to attack the hated “liberal” Supreme Court directly, shear it of its ability to overrule unconstitutional laws, and control the appointment of the Supreme Court judges.

Fifty-one years ago, on the eve of the Eichmann trial, I wrote a book about Nazi Germany. In the last chapter, I asked: “Can It Happen Here?”

My answer still stands: yes, it can.


Are you worried or are you just sticking your head back in the sand?

Once again and in typical fashion you either confuse or intentionally ignore the difference between a Biill or proposed law and a law.

In any event I agree that LAWS such as the ones proposed are troubling and an unnecessary restraint on freedom of speech and association. We will have to see which if any of them become law and withstand the inevitable court challenges.

Having said that none of these laws or proposed laws diminish the fact that Israel is a democratic country. The price one pays for living in a democracy is the prospect of laws being passed which he/she does not like. The remedy in a democracy is to vote the government out and repeal the laws. That is the nature of democracy.

 

[groggy]

Once again and in typical fashion you either confuse or intentionally ignore the difference between a Biill or proposed law and a law.

In any event I agree that LAWS such as the ones proposed are troubling and an unnecessary restraint on freedom of speech and association. We will have to see which if any of them become law and withstand the inevitable court challenges.

Having said that none of these laws or proposed laws diminish the fact that Israel is a democratic country. The price one pays for living in a democracy is the prospect of laws being passed which he/she does not like. The remedy in a democracy is to vote the government out and repeal the laws. That is the nature of democracy.

I do not confuse laws and bills.
The nature of democracy is that you can take it away slowly, one law at a time.
We've seen freedoms disappear in the states and we are seeing some disappear in Israel.
Here, we've just an arse for a leader that is taking away the ability of other parties to compete on an even field, which is also worrying. At least here, the changes are still relatively minor.

 

[toguy5252]

I do not confuse laws and bills.
The nature of democracy is that you can take it away slowly, one law at a time.
We've seen freedoms disappear in the states and we are seeing some disappear in Israel.
Here, we've just an arse for a leader that is taking away the ability of other parties to compete on an even field, which is also worrying. At least here, the changes are still relatively minor.

As i said I do believe that a number of laws which have either passed or are proposed are unnecessary restraints of freedom of speech and association. it remains to be seen whether they will become law or withstand the inevitable appeals. regardless of what you say Israel is a very vibrant democracy, yes democracy and it will withstand the ebbs and flows of politics as democracies like Canada and the US do.. Or to you like those paragons of democracy in Iran. Syria, Libya, Jordan etc.

 

[groggy]

Here's yet another op ed from Al Jazeera on the matter:

"The right to freedom of expression is a fundamental one, necessary to protect the exercise of all other human rights in democratic societies because it is essential for holding governments accountable to the public." (Human Rights Watch, "When Speech Offends", February-March 2006)

Contrary to Fox News and Benjamin Netanyahu, democracy is neither alive nor well in the United States and Israel. Indeed, it is dying a slow, agonising death as each nation writhes in pain in adjoining beds, unaware that the intravenous feeding tubes controlled by their respective Knessets drip poison into their life-sustaining veins. Israel's Haaretz newspaper, in the voice of Carlo Strenger, carries the warning:

The flood of anti-democratic laws that were proposed, and partially implemented, by the current Knesset, elected in February 2009, constitute one of the darkest chapters in Israeli history. The opening salvo was provided by Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu party with its Nakba law, that forbids the public commemoration of the expulsion of approximately 750,000 Palestinians during the 1948 war.

Since then, a growing number of attempts were made to curtail freedom of expression and to make life for human rights groups more difficult. The latest instance is the boycott law that (is) was passed (this) last Monday by the Knesset, even though its legal advisor believes it to be a problematic infringement on freedom of speech.

This is starting to be the perception around the world.

 

[toguy5252]

Here's yet another op ed from Al Jazeera on the matter:

"The right to freedom of expression is a fundamental one, necessary to protect the exercise of all other human rights in democratic societies because it is essential for holding governments accountable to the public." (Human Rights Watch, "When Speech Offends", February-March 2006)

Contrary to Fox News and Benjamin Netanyahu, democracy is neither alive nor well in the United States and Israel. Indeed, it is dying a slow, agonising death as each nation writhes in pain in adjoining beds, unaware that the intravenous feeding tubes controlled by their respective Knessets drip poison into their life-sustaining veins. Israel's Haaretz newspaper, in the voice of Carlo Strenger, carries the warning:

The flood of anti-democratic laws that were proposed, and partially implemented, by the current Knesset, elected in February 2009, constitute one of the darkest chapters in Israeli history. The opening salvo was provided by Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu party with its Nakba law, that forbids the public commemoration of the expulsion of approximately 750,000 Palestinians during the 1948 war.

Since then, a growing number of attempts were made to curtail freedom of expression and to make life for human rights groups more difficult. The latest instance is the boycott law that (is) was passed (this) last Monday by the Knesset, even though its legal advisor believes it to be a problematic infringement on freedom of speech.

This is starting to be the perception around the world.

I am shocked. an ope ed piece in Al Jazeera which is critical of Israel. You will aslo not the writer is hearlding the death of democracy not only in Israel but the US. that should be telling in and of itself.

Why don't you look in the Israeli papers. There are also critical op ed pieces. But then of course the fact that in Israel the press is free to criticize the government would be an indication of freedom of speech and the press etc. Unlike virtually everywhere else in the M.E.

You are too funny.

 

[wigglee]

I am shocked. an ope ed piece in Al Jazeera which is critical of Israel. You will aslo not the writer is hearlding the death of democracy not only in Israel but the US. that should be telling in and of itself.

Why don't you look in the Israeli papers. There are also critical op ed pieces. But then of course the fact that in Israel the press is free to criticize the government would be an indication of freedom of speech and the press etc. Unlike virtually everywhere else in the M.E.

You are too funny.

sorry pal , but avoiding the issue by slagging al jazeera is lame.

 

[basketcase]

Actually Al Jazeera singling Israel out for lack of freedoms is pretty ironic considering the region where it is based. I will give them credit though because every so often they criticize Arab states too (which is more than I can say of many posters here).

I believe another two of those bills were voted down yesterday (including Netanyahu asking his party to vote nay).


p.s. toguy has a point. Al Jazeera, the only news source in the Arab Middle East that is free to criticize Arab governments is owned by the government of Qatar. Meanwhile Israeli press is full of criticisms of these bills.

 

[toguy5252]

sorry pal , but avoiding the issue by slagging al jazeera is lame.

LOL. You need only look at my earlier posts on this and other threads. I have said that i do not believe that the laws which have been proposed and./or passed are necessary or productive. i also said that its questionable whether some which have been proposed will be passed (some have already been defeated in the Knessett) or that those which have become law will withstand the inevitable court challenges. The nature of democracy is that often laws are passed with which you do not agree. I do not avoid issue but simply re-posting opinion pieces by a writer who is predisposed against a particular country or government is not necessarily helpful. there is no shortage of critical op ed pieces in Israeli, American and Canadian papers all of which are legitimate whether one agrees with them or not.

 

[groggy]

Its true that some won't make it into laws. But even the law against talking about boycott's is pretty shocking for a democracy.
Imagine Harper trying to pass that one off here.

Read an interesting quote from Nabil Sha'ath, Fatah Central Committee Member:
Sha’th also pointed out that “Israel’s membership in the United Nations has been based on two conditions which have not been implemented yet.” Sha’th also said: “We can go to the International Court of Justice, demanding that Israel’s membership be invalidated, if Israel does not implement both conditions. These conditions are about the implementation of the partition resolution that gives us 44 percents of the land of Palestine, and the implementation of the 194 resolution regarding the return of Palestinian refugees to their homeland. Therefore, the United States may use veto at the UN Security Council.”

He was mostly talking about how serious the UN tack is, but mentioned this as a possibility, going to the ICJ to petition Israel's removal from the UN for failure to fulfill UN resolutions. Interesting.

 

[fuji]

Act of war?? Treason?? You are a hoot.

Running a blockade is internationally recognized as an act of war. Were you ignorant of that?

What do you call someone who commits an act of war against their own state? Most people would call that person treasonous.