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Harper's Magazine: A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece

Leftist cancel culture is now the existential threat!
 
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The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
23,034
46,148
113
On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece

Krystal and Saagar BLAST cancel culture meltdown over Chomsky, Rowling letter defending free speech

Free speach must be defended from the rabid leftists at all costs before democracy as well know it is destroyed.
 
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y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
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Lewiston, NY

Krystal and Saagar BLAST cancel culture meltdown over Chomsky, Rowling letter defending free speech

Free speach must be defended from the rabid leftists at all costs before democracy as well know it is destroyed.
George R. R. Martin should write a series: "Game of Statues", there are certainly enough characters and endless plotting...
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Leftist cancel culture is now the existential threat!
Threat to what existence?
Racism?

How does it feel to have extremist, minority views?
Nine out of 10 Americans say racism and police brutality are problems, poll finds
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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The 10% or so that support racist "free speech", will never accept the fact that there is a big issue with the extreme right and the manner that they have been triggering online violence and discrimination against minorities!!.
That 10% seems to be represented here by 100% of the right wing posters.
Our demographics skew very Trumpy with the right wingers, there his hardly one who calls him out here.
 

Knuckle Ball

Well-known member
Oct 15, 2017
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Nobody is censoring these writers’ speech. However, free speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of ones speech.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Nobody is censoring these writers’ speech. However, free speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of ones speech.
Statements like this are dangerous.

Salmon Rushdie, one of the signatories, will attest to that. Cancel culture is censorship.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
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Lewiston, NY
In the tradition of Nixon and Cheny, couldn't we call a male Karen a Dick? Seems appropriate, somehow...
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
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In the tradition of Nixon and Cheny, couldn't we call a male Karen a Dick? Seems appropriate, somehow...
I believe they are referred to as "Ken's".
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
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Techdirt has posted a great rebuttal to the Harper's letter.
They argue that the debate is not about free speech but consequences for dumb speech.

Harper's Gives Prestigious Platform To Famous Writers So They Can Whine About Being Silenced

While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty.

With so many famous and serious authors signing onto this letter, I have to call out the use of the word "censoriousness". This word is commonly misused and misunderstood. It does not mean, as many assume, prone to censorship. That word is "censorial." Censorious actually means hypercritical of others, not trying to force them into silence. Given the literary nature and stature of the signatories of this letter, I would assume that those who wrote this (1) know this and are actually using the word correctly, but know full well that (2) most readers will assume the other, mistaken, interpretation of the word.

As to the larger point of this sentence, it is still, itself, quite problematic. First off, "public shaming" and "ostracism" are literally examples of counterspeech and open debate. In other words, this sentence appears to be complaining about the very thing the authors claim to be supporting: counterspeech. Public shaming and ostracism are the consequences of speech that a group feels is ridiculous, problematic, dangerous or otherwise not worth spreading widely. That's the opposite of being censorial. It is the opposite of shutting down speech. It is literally people speaking up to explain why those who hold odious views should be shamed for those views. It is a form of counterspeech and consequences from that counterspeech. On top of that it is an attempt to encourage bodies that host, promote, and elevate speech to think carefully about which speech deserves it.

That is quite different than actually censoring such speech and suggesting that no one should ever be allowed to say what they want anywhere. It is saying if you have dumb ideas, people may think you're dumb, and may ask why others are elevating those dumb ideas. The protests are not to say you can't speak, but rather to ask "why is this speech being held up as insightful or praiseworthy?"
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Statements like this are dangerous.

Salmon Rushdie, one of the signatories, will attest to that. Cancel culture is censorship.
Yes. Having a fatwa called on you is exactly the same as people on twitter telling you your ideas are bad. These things are exactly alike.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
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Yes. Having a fatwa called on you is exactly the same as people on twitter telling you your ideas are bad. These things are exactly alike.
Except they do more than that. They doxx you and demand you be fired. They try to force companies not to hire you. They try to ruin your life. And create a situation where your name on the internet forever denies you forgiveness and closure.

The purpose is not to educate, but to punish. And to keep on punishing. It's medieval thinking. It's in essence banishment. Without hope of redemption.

The justice system and in fact a modern liberal democracy is supposed to be based on the premise that people can change. That once you do something wrong forgiveness is obtainable. Cancel culture doesn't allow that. They never forgive.

That's the difference. That's why it's dangerous.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Except they do more than that. They doxx you and demand you be fired. They try to force companies not to hire you. They try to ruin your life. And create a situation where your name on the internet forever denies you forgiveness and closure.

The purpose is not to educate, but to punish. And to keep on punishing. It's medieval thinking. It's in essence banishment. Without hope of redemption.

The justice system and in fact a modern liberal democracy is supposed to be based on the premise that people can change. That once you do something wrong forgiveness is obtainable. Cancel culture doesn't allow that. They never forgive.

That's the difference. That's why it's dangerous.
Its exactly as the techcrunch piece says.

You are complaining about having consequences to saying racist or hateful shit.
Just like nobody has taken away any Karen's freedom to say and do racist shite the only slight difference is that now Karen's are occasionally paying the social price for having racist/hateful lives.
 
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