Toronto Escorts

Flat Tax vs. Income Tax?

Would you prefer an absolute flat tax or an absolute income tax?

  • Flat Tax

    Votes: 16 51.6%
  • Income Tax

    Votes: 13 41.9%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Total voters
    31

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,572
203
63
The Keebler Factory
Would you prefer an absolute flat tax or an absolute income tax?

An absolute flat tax would be lower income taxes for everyone but with higher/more user fees for different services. There could still be income tax brackets, but overall taxes would be lower. Think of the current tax system, but with lower income tax and more user fees.

An absolute income tax would be higher income taxes for everyone, but no user fees/taxes for any services (i.e. driver license renewals, liquor tax, GST/PST, gasoline tax, etc.).
 

mr. x

Member
Aug 17, 2001
426
1
18
i have to agree with winston - a flat tax system just won't fly....

a flat tax system does not have different brackets - maybe you are thinking of something different?

with a flat tax,inevitably, the people who are currently in the top bracket pay less tax, and that has to be made up somewhere else - user fees tend to hit the poor and low income people the most.

people who advocate the flat tax always talk about how simple it will be - but calculating which bracket you are in and how much tax you have to pay isn't what makes taxes so complex - its getting to that final "net income" number.

what is needed is tax simplification - close loopholes and eliminate certain deductions and tax credits, and redirect the savings directly to where it will do the most good. i.e., we have an education deduction - its probably more trouble than its worth - give more in grants to students instead. the age deduction should go - boost the OAS instead, and so on.
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

I would rather see a poll tax instead of property tax, that way every household pays its fair share of taxes

my idea, everyone over 18 pays $500/year

a household with 2 adults would pay $1000

a household with 5 adults would pay $2500

now a household with 5 adults is using many more services than a household with 2 adults, but with our property tax system, they pay the same amount. In my opinion, the existing sytem is not a "fair" tax system and must be changed.

Also, I think that instead of having tolls to go in and out of Toronto, I think that there should be a gasoline tax of 10 cents per litre in the GTA (Pickering to Hamilton to include Milton, Georgetown, and Vaughn). The revenue from this tax should be split amongst the municiplaities based on their portions of the population of the area where the tax is levied, to fund road repair / construction and public transit.
 
W

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

Winston said:
It depends upon what you mean by "fair share". Under your system, a family of 5 living in a 2 bedroom bungalow with a total family income of 32,000/yr would pay more than a family of 2 living on the Bridal Path, with a total family income in excess of $2.5 Million dollars/year.
Why should we punish those who are a little more successful than others?
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,572
203
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The Keebler Factory
A head tax (aka poll tax) doesn't really have anything to do with property though. That's what municipal property taxes are for. They're taxing you for your land. How many people live on that land is up to you.

Is it fair for someone who lives on land the size of Etobicoke to be paying less than a family living on a plot of land the size of a postage stamp?
 

MRMARCUS

New member
Dec 12, 2001
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MISSISSAUGA
I have a suggestion, how about no taxes like they had at the turn of the last century. Taxation is a scam that is used to further make the wealthy richer. Of course the poor stay poorer. One thing i could never understand is that i work all year for example, bi weekly i give say $500(multiply that by 26 weeks). At the end of the year they will turn around and tell me that i "owe" them money.
I am still waiting for them to demolish the GST.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,572
203
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The Keebler Factory
You couldn't live w/o some form of taxation. Roads, schools, education, health care, etc., all require public funding.

How taxes make the rich richer is a mystery to me since they have a higher tax rate.

Like it or not, taxes are the foundation of our society.
 

blofeld

SPECTRE
Aug 26, 2001
406
0
0
Oakville
I'd like to see a very simple percentage-based tax with no deductions or anythiing... just a straight 20% or 25% or whatever. I realize there are incentives to do things, but there's gotta be a better way.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
MRMARCUS said:
I have a suggestion, how about no taxes like they had at the turn of the last century…edit….
Please explain. It was, after all, Benjamin Franklin who said, "In this world there is nothing certain, except death and taxes". If there were no taxes until a century later, what was he talking about?
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,558
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www.scubadiving.com
I think you have confused income and consumption taxes. Flat taxes generally means a single income tax rate that all pay from dollar 1 - 1,000,000. Consumption taxes are the GST for instance.

Tax systems are too often used to drive behavior instead of just raising revenue in a fair way. There are at least two views of what is fair, that each pays their own way (poll tax) or each pays his/her fair share based on income (flat income tax rate). "Progressive rates" are used to subsidize lower earners (even more than a flat tax would) with lower tax rates.

Personally I would tax consumption (GST) and exempt basic necessities (food, clothing, first X of housing).

OTB
 

Don

Active member
Aug 23, 2001
6,289
10
38
Toronto
Keebler Elf said:
Would you prefer an absolute flat tax or an absolute income tax?

An absolute flat tax would be lower income taxes for everyone but with higher/more user fees for different services. There could still be income tax brackets, but overall taxes would be lower. Think of the current tax system, but with lower income tax and more user fees.

An absolute income tax would be higher income taxes for everyone, but no user fees/taxes for any services (i.e. driver license renewals, liquor tax, GST/PST, gasoline tax, etc.).
I prefer an absolute flat tax. In the end, people with more money will still pay more taxes because they will consume/spend more on services and goods and there will be a consumption tax on those goods. I even support raising GST and having more luxury taxes on extravant goods at the cost of a lower flat income tax.
 

MRMARCUS

New member
Dec 12, 2001
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Well for example the LCBO in ontario alone had over a billion dollars in profit alone last year. That is profit my friends, how much profits do they make from cigarettes, gas and gambling(casino and lotteries). I am sure it is no coincedence that super 7 hits big money every few weeks, imagine the amount of money they collect when they annouce a big draw. Those are but a few of the taxes they collect. I repeat IT IS A SCAM.

The rich have never paid taxes that are proportionate to there wealth, in the states they set up trust funds to funnel there money into.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,572
203
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The Keebler Factory
Another ignorant post by someone who uses the proceeds of tax money everyday, yet complains that taxes are a scam.
 

MRMARCUS

New member
Dec 12, 2001
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MISSISSAUGA
Oh really, so you are obviously happy with our tax system. It obviously works for you. I don`t like being overtaxed. How come some countries are tax free?

In Canada we pay some of the highest taxes in the world.

I suppose you think all this tax money is used wisely, clown.
 

gala

New member
Sep 9, 2002
318
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0
I'm in favour of a progressive tax because I believe it increases competition. Yes increases. A flat tax would be a tax rise for the poor, and that would cripple their ability to bring up their kids properly. So you wind up with a bunch of kids who grow up with basically no chance--and that means less competition. In the long run we hurt our own nation if we don't level the playing field.

Another thing I want to see--whopping estate taxes. Same reason. Sooner or later the kids of the extremely rich need to be forced back into the job market and made to compete like everyone else.

Competition is the key to everything. When people don't have to compete, or don't feel they can compete, you wind up with inefficient processes and lower living standards for everyone.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
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MRMARCUS said:


The rich have never paid taxes that are proportionate to there wealth, in the states they set up trust funds to funnel there money into.
Don't have the stats up there but down here 800 people (tax returns actually) paid aprox 25% of Federal Income Tax. Those who earned less than 50k didn't pay their fair share. Congress just made permanent the lowest bracket (something like 10%). The vast majority don't pay their fair share, I'm wondering if you're one of them.

OTB
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
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www.scubadiving.com
gala said:
I'm in favour of a progressive tax because I believe it increases competition. Yes increases. A flat tax would be a tax rise for the poor, and that would cripple their ability to bring up their kids properly. So you wind up with a bunch of kids who grow up with basically no chance--and that means less competition. In the long run we hurt our own nation if we don't level the playing field.
I think you would find that the countries with the highest and most progressive taxes are less competitive. Do you have any facts to back up this assertion or is it just a justification for a "tax the other guy" view.

gala said:

Another thing I want to see--whopping estate taxes. Same reason. Sooner or later the kids of the extremely rich need to be forced back into the job market and made to compete like everyone else.
Are not these all after tax dollars, would this not be double taxation of the same dollar? How about people who pass on farms or businesses they've built? This is a fundamentally stupid idea born of envy.

gala said:

Competition is the key to everything. When people don't have to compete, or don't feel they can compete, you wind up with inefficient processes and lower living standards for everyone.
That’s why less socialists economies grow faster and earn more....

OTB
 

MRMARCUS

New member
Dec 12, 2001
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Gala - what are you talking about. In the current system poor people cannot raise there kids properly, in turn alot of kids DO grow up with no chance in life. But joe public grumbles about welfare and how these people are abusing the system. They are not the problem, it is the corporations that make billions and pay back nothing. No grumbles about the almight banks!!!

Why would the extremely rich kids need to be forced back into the workplace. most of them have trust funds so they do not have to work ever again.
 

MRMARCUS

New member
Dec 12, 2001
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MISSISSAUGA
OTB in the usa the super rich families set up trust funds so they avoid paying no tax. Mellon, Fannie Mae, Carnegie are some of these funds i am talking about. In fact GW takes good care of these people through his tax breaks.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,572
203
63
The Keebler Factory
MRMARCUS said:
Oh really, so you are obviously happy with our tax system. It obviously works for you. I don`t like being overtaxed. How come some countries are tax free?

In Canada we pay some of the highest taxes in the world.

I suppose you think all this tax money is used wisely, clown.
It's certainly used more wisely than if YOU were in charge of it. Thank god you aren't.

How are some countries tax free? Name them please. You'll find they're either tiny islands with next to no population or some little Middle Eastern country with oil out the whazzoo. Canada is a first world, state of the art western democracy with one of the best (if not THE best) health care systems in the world. Taxes support our high standard of living.
 
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