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Desperate Americans Are Tweeting at Pelosi and McConnell to 'PASS A DAMN STIMULUS'

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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There won't be a stimulus. A stimulus might mean people think the Democrats did something and McConnell doesn't want that.

So the question is how much do the Dems have to give up to get something passed? What corporate sellout are you willing to accept to get even the smallest amount of stimulus?
The mains sticking point has been corporate liability. How much are you willing to sell that for?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
23,979
399
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There won't be a stimulus. A stimulus might mean people think the Democrats did something and McConnell doesn't want that.

So the question is how much do the Dems have to give up to get something passed? What corporate sellout are you willing to accept to get even the smallest amount of stimulus?
The mains sticking point has been corporate liability. How much are you willing to sell that for?
How about no military budget. No corporate subsidies until this is done? No corporate stimulus?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
4,954
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How about no military budget. No corporate subsidies until this is done? No corporate stimulus?
So Butler is against any COVID stimulus.

Or maybe this is a list of trades.
He is willing to give a stimulus to people if the Republicans trade no military budget. If the Republicans don't want people dying or losing their jobs and homes, they need to drop the military budget.

But lets be generous.

Butler1000 - McConnell comes back with this deal. 500 billion in direct subsidies to people. No money goes to corporations of any kind. Unemployment Insurance boosts or even direct UBI only.
In exchange, corporate immunity from any lawsuits concerning COVID 19. No suing a company for making you work in an unsafe environment concerning the virus, no punishment for lack of safety protocols, none of it.
You can't sue a corporation concerning COVID-19 at all. But there is no corporate subsidy or stimulus.

Agree to that, and the GOP will agree to 500 billion. Do you take it?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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So Butler is against any COVID stimulus.

Or maybe this is a list of trades.
He is willing to give a stimulus to people if the Republicans trade no military budget. If the Republicans don't want people dying or losing their jobs and homes, they need to drop the military budget.

But lets be generous.

Butler1000 - McConnell comes back with this deal. 500 billion in direct subsidies to people. No money goes to corporations of any kind. Unemployment Insurance boosts or even direct UBI only.
In exchange, corporate immunity from any lawsuits concerning COVID 19. No suing a company for making you work in an unsafe environment concerning the virus, no punishment for lack of safety protocols, none of it.
You can't sue a corporation concerning COVID-19 at all. But there is no corporate subsidy or stimulus.

Agree to that, and the GOP will agree to 500 billion. Do you take it?
This is why the Dems are failures. They have no leverage. They already gave away the money and leverage.

If you are Mitch and Joe Biden/Pelosi say, if you don't take our deal we will stop Military increases, I will order bases to shut down, bring troops home, reduce personel.......I will also allow all corporate subsidies to sunset and refuse to sign new ones. Do you play ball?

You don't get to set narrow parameters. And the example is the exact set up Mitch and Nancy want. Donors taken care of, no money to working class, divided America. Nancy and Mitch are equally responsible.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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This is why the Dems are failures. They have no leverage. They already gave away the money and leverage.
What leverage do you think they have in this deal?

If you are Mitch and Joe Biden/Pelosi say, if you don't take our deal we will stop Military increases, I will order bases to shut down, bring troops home, reduce personel.......I will also allow all corporate subsidies to sunset and refuse to sign new ones. Do you play ball?
If I'm Mitch of course I take that deal.
Democrats refuse to help people. They unilaterally disarm and shut down bases, handing over control of the world to China.
They have chosen to cripple American Business.

Not only do I take that deal if I 'm Mitch, I fucking destroy you in the next election with a 50-state sweep.

But since you cannot do ANY of those things, how are you offering it?
Who is ordering these materials?
Who is making corporate subsidy provisions without sunset clauses sunset?
You have no leverage to do anything you just threatened.


You don't get to set narrow parameters. And the example is the exact set up Mitch and Nancy want. Donors taken care of, no money to working class, divided America. Nancy and Mitch are equally responsible.
I don't know why you think people don't get to set narrow parameters. That's the issue this thread is about.
Do a COVID subsidy because people are hurting.

You have made it clear. You don't choose to take that deal.
You are against COVID subsidies, happy to fuck over the American people to score political points.
Just as everyone thought.
Basically a right winger.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
23,979
399
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What leverage do you think they have in this deal?



If I'm Mitch of course I take that deal.
Democrats refuse to help people. They unilaterally disarm and shut down bases, handing over control of the world to China.
They have chosen to cripple American Business.

Not only do I take that deal if I 'm Mitch, I fucking destroy you in the next election with a 50-state sweep.

But since you cannot do ANY of those things, how are you offering it?
Who is ordering these materials?
Who is making corporate subsidy provisions without sunset clauses sunset?
You have no leverage to do anything you just threatened.




I don't know why you think people don't get to set narrow parameters. That's the issue this thread is about.
Do a COVID subsidy because people are hurting.

You have made it clear. You don't choose to take that deal.
You are against COVID subsidies, happy to fuck over the American people to score political points.
Just as everyone thought.
Basically a right winger.
Lol. One party is right of centre, the other very right of centre. Until you admit that and that both are now in the hands of corporate donors we have no common ground for the basis of a conversation.

The Dems have no leverage because they are on the same side as the GOP. Working for the same people. Supporting the notion that the vast majority of citizens should just accept this and continue to allow the treasury to be raided and accept the crumbs after is what makes you the right winger here.

You think putting right wing people in charge is the way to get left wing policy. How stupid is that?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
4,954
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Lol. One party is right of centre, the other very right of centre. Until you admit that and that both are now in the hands of corporate donors we have no common ground for the basis of a conversation.

The Dems have no leverage because they are on the same side as the GOP. Working for the same people. Supporting the notion that the vast majority of citizens should just accept this and continue to allow the treasury to be raided and accept the crumbs after is what makes you the right winger here.

You think putting right wing people in charge is the way to get left wing policy. How stupid is that?
Awww.... you dodged the question because you're unable to answer it.
Adorable.

And this is why it is impossible to take you seriously. You can't even defend your own approach because you fundamentally don't understand how things work.
So we fall back to your comforting slogans.

What are you willing to give up to get COVID aid to people?
So far your answer is "nothing, I will hold by breath until the government works entirely differently and then I don't give up anything".

Let's try something else.

What will you give up to get Single Payer Healthcare?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
23,979
399
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Why should anything "be given up"? It costs less. Benefits more. And creates a healthier society.

Thats the problem. You think in terms of Trumpian transactional politics. As do the parties. Shouldn't it be about serving the people, and not corporations?

What did Tommy Douglas "Give up"? Answer that and maybe you will understand.

When you change the parameters from whats best for corporations to whats best for people its a pretty easy decision. But as a some who no doubt identifies as Fiscally Conservative/Socially Liberal (which means you don't want to look bad so pays lip service to identity politics) you can't understand that concept.

Wyatt has you pegged nicely. I guess you left MERB because they got tired of you there.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Lol. One party is right of centre, the other very right of centre.
So, you being a hard core leftist, decided to therefore back the most extreme right wing choice?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
4,954
2,568
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Why should anything "be given up"? It costs less. Benefits more. And creates a healthier society.
So? The other side won't vote for it.

Thats the problem. You think in terms of Trumpian transactional politics. As do the parties. Shouldn't it be about serving the people, and not corporations?
Of course they should. They don't.
So what do you do? You're current answer is "do nothing because I don't like it".
This is the reaction of a child.

What did Tommy Douglas "Give up"? Answer that and maybe you will understand.
Of course he didn't give up. He engaged with the political reality as it existed.
When he couldn't get a complete health care system in Saskatchewan, he passed something that only covered hospitals.
They got two other provinces to instill the same limited model, but no one could get a more universal system passed. So they took the win and worked on getting more later.

And when the horrible centrist party stole his idea and instilled that partial version nationally, he took the win and didn't demonize them as not being the right people, and then kept pushing to make it better.

He got a more comprehensive system passed by the NDP in Saskatchewan, and cut a deal with the doctors who went on strike, letting them stay as independent contractors even though it wasn't part of his original plan.
He didn't get everything he wanted, but he moved the ball forward and took the win.

Then the horrible centrist party stole his idea again and put it into place nationally. And to this day it only covers about 70% and the other 30% is private. Less than Tommy Douglas wanted.
But he took the win anyway, because it was an improvement over what was there before.

When you change the parameters from whats best for corporations to whats best for people its a pretty easy decision.
If people just decided based on what the best policy was, we wouldn't have this problem. But you need to learn that that isn't how people decide things.
Tommy Douglas was willing to compromise with the entrenched power structure to make sure people got something instead of nothing.
You repeatedly insist that to do what Tommy Douglas did would be a horrible neoliberal sell out and Canada would have been better off to have gotten nothing rather than compromise.

I side with Tommy Douglas.

But as a some who no doubt identifies as Fiscally Conservative/Socially Liberal (which means you don't want to look bad so pays lip service to identity politics) you can't understand that concept.


OMG, that's amazing.

wipes tears

Wow. Your powers of political analysis are a never-ending source of hilarity.


Wyatt has you pegged nicely. I guess you left MERB because they got tired of you there.
No. They just aren't nearly as active and COVID meant I was bored.
They are also more consistently simple right wing, not giving me the sort of pure Saturday Morning Cartoon Jacobin Faux-left Populist that you are to entertain me.
Also, no one is as batshit out there as Wacky Integrated Spiral man and I am really going to miss him when I grow bored here.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
23,979
399
83
So? The other side won't vote for it.



Of course they should. They don't.
So what do you do? You're current answer is "do nothing because I don't like it".
This is the reaction of a child.



Of course he didn't give up. He engaged with the political reality as it existed.
When he couldn't get a complete health care system in Saskatchewan, he passed something that only covered hospitals.
They got two other provinces to instill the same limited model, but no one could get a more universal system passed. So they took the win and worked on getting more later.

And when the horrible centrist party stole his idea and instilled that partial version nationally, he took the win and didn't demonize them as not being the right people, and then kept pushing to make it better.

He got a more comprehensive system passed by the NDP in Saskatchewan, and cut a deal with the doctors who went on strike, letting them stay as independent contractors even though it wasn't part of his original plan.
He didn't get everything he wanted, but he moved the ball forward and took the win.

Then the horrible centrist party stole his idea again and put it into place nationally. And to this day it only covers about 70% and the other 30% is private. Less than Tommy Douglas wanted.
But he took the win anyway, because it was an improvement over what was there before.



If people just decided based on what the best policy was, we wouldn't have this problem. But you need to learn that that isn't how people decide things.
Tommy Douglas was willing to compromise with the entrenched power structure to make sure people got something instead of nothing.
You repeatedly insist that to do what Tommy Douglas did would be a horrible neoliberal sell out and Canada would have been better off to have gotten nothing rather than compromise.

I side with Tommy Douglas.





OMG, that's amazing.

wipes tears

Wow. Your powers of political analysis are a never-ending source of hilarity.




No. They just aren't nearly as active and COVID meant I was bored.
They are also more consistently simple right wing, not giving me the sort of pure Saturday Morning Cartoon Jacobin Faux-left Populist that you are to entertain me.
Also, no one is as batshit out there as Wacky Integrated Spiral man and I am really going to miss him when I grow bored here.
Lots of gibberish I can't be bothered to wade through. And you don't know shit.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2005
21,181
983
113
Lol. One party is right of centre, the other very right of centre. Until you admit that and that both are now in the hands of corporate donors we have no common ground for the basis of a conversation.

The Dems have no leverage because they are on the same side as the GOP. Working for the same people. Supporting the notion that the vast majority of citizens should just accept this and continue to allow the treasury to be raided and accept the crumbs after is what makes you the right winger here.

You think putting right wing people in charge is the way to get left wing policy. How stupid is that?
So when the Democrats passed a stimulus package and it's been sitting on Moscow Mitch's desk for months, then you still blame just The Democrats for it??
Why do you not unilaterally condemn Mitch and his crony Republicans for once if you are that concerned about these desperate relief measures??
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Lots of gibberish I can't be bothered to wade through. And you don't know shit.
I did not expect "tucks tail between legs and runs like scalded dog" as your reaction.

So when the Democrats passed a stimulus package and it's been sitting on Moscow Mitch's desk for months, then you still blame just The Democrats for it??
Why do you not unilaterally condemn Mitch and his crony Republicans for once if you are that concerned about these desperate relief measures??
Because he isn't concerned about the policy.
He is anti-Democrat. That's it. To not seem completely schizophrenic he has chosen a set of policy goals to talk about, but they don't really matter.
Whatever the Democrats do, he is against it.

For instance - If Pelosi makes a deal with Mitch, then she didn't get enough or included something in the bill the Republicans wanted. Either way, she did it wrong - she failed.
If she doesn't make a deal, then she is playing politics and refusing to help people because she is out of touch.

It's very easy to do as a rhetorical strategy as long as you only care about the rhetorical win.
 
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bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2005
21,181
983
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I did not expect "tucks tail between legs and runs like scalded dog" as your reaction.



Because he isn't concerned about the policy.
He is anti-Democrat. That's it. To not seem completely schizophrenic he has chosen a set of policy goals to talk about, but they don't really matter.
Whatever the Democrats do, he is against it.

For instance - If Pelosi makes a deal with Mitch, then she didn't get enough or included something in the bill the Republicans wanted. Either way, she did it wrong - she failed.
If she doesn't make a deal, then she is playing politics and refusing to help people because she is out of touch.

It's very easy to do as a rhetorical strategy as long as you only care about the rhetorical win.
Spot on regarding butler and his POV!!
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
45,858
2,323
113
So when the Democrats passed a stimulus package and it's been sitting on Moscow Mitch's desk for months, then you still blame just The Democrats for it??
Why do you not unilaterally condemn Mitch and his crony Republicans for once if you are that concerned about these desperate relief measures??
Of course, butler has been blaming Obama for all the bills Mitch wouldn't pass previously, why would he change now?
Its going to be all Biden's fault.