well saidOur masters are now Chinese......
Corporations are taking jobs away from North America (who does that benefit?)
Our leaders go on trips to China to secure "Trade Deals". (to benefit who?)
Our leaders are selling the rights to our national resources to foreign interests (Don't really think Joe Public benefits from that deal)
Why would Canada even consider becoming trade partners with a country with an abysmal record of Human Violations? It should be illegal for our companies to Trade with communist China, but no, our Political leaders actually go there to seek out "deals". Again, it benefits the people who have money. It benefits their contributors. It benefits Apple. It benefits Nike.
If it wasn't absolutely appalling, I would be inclined to find it funny that the money these 2 companies save using sweatshop labor isn't really passed on to the consumer. It simply further pads the pockets of the super rich.
The argument has long been that companies couldn't compete unless they move the jobs off shore. (1) If it was illegal to trade with a country that uses slave labor, then competition would not really be the issue. (2) Companies could compete, sell their products at current prices, pay their employees livable wages.... the only thing that would change is Executives would not be able to collect 380x the salary and bonus money as the avg worker.
By the way...... they own the media too. Its kind of like Rush's 2112....
We've taken care of everything
The words you read, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why.....
and that is how they want it!
China Sends its Love....
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I watched this segment on 60 Minutes the night it aired. I was blown away by the fact that Power Turbines can be hacked into and destroyed.... More disturbed by the fact that replacing them comes from off shore. Would take months possibly years.
Its a 6 page read.... its worth it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-6568387.htmlThis segment was first broadcast on Nov. 8, 2009. It was updated on June 10, 2010.
Nothing has ever changed the world as quickly as the Internet has. Less than a decade ago, "60 Minutes" went to the Pentagon to do a story on something called information warfare, or cyber war as some people called it then. It involved using computers and the Internet as weapons.
Much of it was still theory, but we were told that before too long it might be possible for a hacker with a computer to disable critical infrastructure in a major city and disrupt essential services, to steal millions of dollars from banks all over the world, infiltrate defense systems, extort millions from public companies, and even sabotage our weapons systems.
Today it's not only possible, all of that has actually happened, plus a lot more we don't even know about.
It's why President Obama has made cyber war defense a top national priority and why, as we first reported in November, some people are already saying that the next big war is less likely to begin with a bang than a blackout........
..............
"In 2007 we probably had our electronic Pearl Harbor. It was an espionage Pearl Harbor," Lewis said. "Some unknown foreign power, and honestly, we don't know who it is, broke into the Department of Defense, to the Department of State, the Department of Commerce, probably the Department of Energy, probably NASA. They broke into all of the high tech agencies, all of the military agencies, and downloaded terabytes of information."
..............
But since then, there has been an even more serious breach of computer security, which Lewis called the most significant incident ever publically acknowledged by the Pentagon.
Last November, someone was able to get past the firewalls and encryption devices of one of the most sensitive U.S. military computer systems and stay inside for several days.
"This was the CENTCOM network," Lewis explained. "The command that's fighting our two wars. And some foreign power was able to get into their networks. And sit there and see everything they did. That was a major problem. And that's really had a big effect on D.O.D."
...................
"You know, I've been trying to figure out why that is. And some of it is the previous administration didn't want to admit that they had been rolled in 2007. There's a disincentive to tell people, 'Hey, things are going badly.' But it doesn't seem to be sinking in. And some of us call it 'the death of a thousand cuts.' Every day a little bit more of our intellectual property, our innovative skills, our military technology is stolen by somebody. And it's like little drops. Eventually we'll drown. But every day we don't notice," Lewis said.
....................
"So you're worried about somebody being able to get in and reprogram a nuclear weapon, or get inside and put something in there that would make it…," Kroft asked.
"Well, certainly alter its functionality," Gosler said.
Asked what he means by "alter its functionality," Gosler said, "Such that when the weapon needed to be to go operational, it wouldn't work."
"Have you found microchips that have been altered?" Kroft asked.
"We have found microelectronics and electronics embedded in applications that they shouldn't be there. And it's very clear that a foreign intelligence service put them there," Gosler said.
Its a 6 page read.... its worth it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-6568387.htmlThis segment was first broadcast on Nov. 8, 2009. It was updated on June 10, 2010.
Nothing has ever changed the world as quickly as the Internet has. Less than a decade ago, "60 Minutes" went to the Pentagon to do a story on something called information warfare, or cyber war as some people called it then. It involved using computers and the Internet as weapons.
Much of it was still theory, but we were told that before too long it might be possible for a hacker with a computer to disable critical infrastructure in a major city and disrupt essential services, to steal millions of dollars from banks all over the world, infiltrate defense systems, extort millions from public companies, and even sabotage our weapons systems.
Today it's not only possible, all of that has actually happened, plus a lot more we don't even know about.
It's why President Obama has made cyber war defense a top national priority and why, as we first reported in November, some people are already saying that the next big war is less likely to begin with a bang than a blackout........
..............
"In 2007 we probably had our electronic Pearl Harbor. It was an espionage Pearl Harbor," Lewis said. "Some unknown foreign power, and honestly, we don't know who it is, broke into the Department of Defense, to the Department of State, the Department of Commerce, probably the Department of Energy, probably NASA. They broke into all of the high tech agencies, all of the military agencies, and downloaded terabytes of information."
..............
But since then, there has been an even more serious breach of computer security, which Lewis called the most significant incident ever publically acknowledged by the Pentagon.
Last November, someone was able to get past the firewalls and encryption devices of one of the most sensitive U.S. military computer systems and stay inside for several days.
"This was the CENTCOM network," Lewis explained. "The command that's fighting our two wars. And some foreign power was able to get into their networks. And sit there and see everything they did. That was a major problem. And that's really had a big effect on D.O.D."
...................
"You know, I've been trying to figure out why that is. And some of it is the previous administration didn't want to admit that they had been rolled in 2007. There's a disincentive to tell people, 'Hey, things are going badly.' But it doesn't seem to be sinking in. And some of us call it 'the death of a thousand cuts.' Every day a little bit more of our intellectual property, our innovative skills, our military technology is stolen by somebody. And it's like little drops. Eventually we'll drown. But every day we don't notice," Lewis said.
....................
"So you're worried about somebody being able to get in and reprogram a nuclear weapon, or get inside and put something in there that would make it…," Kroft asked.
"Well, certainly alter its functionality," Gosler said.
Asked what he means by "alter its functionality," Gosler said, "Such that when the weapon needed to be to go operational, it wouldn't work."
"Have you found microchips that have been altered?" Kroft asked.
"We have found microelectronics and electronics embedded in applications that they shouldn't be there. And it's very clear that a foreign intelligence service put them there," Gosler said.
Much of course depends upon whether this is a Chinese statement of like you we subscribe to MAD or if it is a PLAN statement of look out sei gweilo 死鬼佬And pretty soon they will be spreading a different type of love...
Image for Yu column Inside China Source: Global Times
Some of you guys better clutch your security blanket more tightly tonight after reading this thread.
There could be a commie underneath your bed.
:eyebrows:
There could be a commie underneath your bed.
:eyebrows:
Anyone remember when everyone was afraid the Japanese were going to take over because they could take our ideas and execute them better/cheaper…… how did that work out.
The Chinese have serious issues facing them and our Pacific fleet is not one of them.
Total debt to GDP in China is over 200% (what it was in Japan in the 80s, in the US in 2008….), this debt, largely owed by local governments to banks has been funding infrastructure spending - which represents (hold on to your hat) 45% of Chinese GDP. They are desperate to grow and compete as they have massive demographic realities that require they grow >7% to keep the people from rioting……. Their large markets (US, Europe) are stagnating and they remain at the low end of the value chain, how many Chinese brands to you have in your house? How about Euro or US brands….. Think of the iPhone, assembled in China of components sourced from Korea/Twain…. the most expensive component (processor) built in Tx, most of the value (90+%) ends up in the US…..
China has been the worlds sweatshop, it's trying to move up that value chain but it's slow going…..
OTB
The Chinese have serious issues facing them and our Pacific fleet is not one of them.
Total debt to GDP in China is over 200% (what it was in Japan in the 80s, in the US in 2008….), this debt, largely owed by local governments to banks has been funding infrastructure spending - which represents (hold on to your hat) 45% of Chinese GDP. They are desperate to grow and compete as they have massive demographic realities that require they grow >7% to keep the people from rioting……. Their large markets (US, Europe) are stagnating and they remain at the low end of the value chain, how many Chinese brands to you have in your house? How about Euro or US brands….. Think of the iPhone, assembled in China of components sourced from Korea/Twain…. the most expensive component (processor) built in Tx, most of the value (90+%) ends up in the US…..
China has been the worlds sweatshop, it's trying to move up that value chain but it's slow going…..
OTB
15ooo containers?????? ...... That's a bit if a stretch.
A container is 40 ft long. So on a 1300 ft ship, you could put approximately 32 rows end to end.
I count 122 containers in the back row in that big ship x 32 rows = 3200 above deck.
And that's no room for a bridge..and loaders etc. that's jammed packed.
You get far less below deck, because of configuration, engine and logistical room.
but lets say you get the same ..... A ship chuck full would max out at 6400 containers.
I think the answer is likely 3000 to 4000 containers in reality on these big ships.
A container is 40 ft long. So on a 1300 ft ship, you could put approximately 32 rows end to end.
I count 122 containers in the back row in that big ship x 32 rows = 3200 above deck.
And that's no room for a bridge..and loaders etc. that's jammed packed.
You get far less below deck, because of configuration, engine and logistical room.
but lets say you get the same ..... A ship chuck full would max out at 6400 containers.
I think the answer is likely 3000 to 4000 containers in reality on these big ships.
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The economic climate, has turned upside down in the US over the last 30 years. Good paying jobs have left, and they are never returning. Never. Companies don't rely Americans exclusively for their revenues..... the world has new markets for them to exploit. China.... India.... Pakistan.... all with emerging economies, emerging middle classes, and disposable income.
The Internet was invented in the the US.... it grew in the US..... and its technology is integrated with other technologies (corporate, Infrastructure, national defense, Medical....) in North America. Not so much in the rest of the world... (in varying degrees pending on where you go). The 60 minutes article (3 years old now) only shows how vulnerable we actually are, because we've build everything we could think of around it..... Our strength, turns out to be a big weakness.
* An unknown foreign government was in the Department of Defense's command center watching everything for more than 2 days undetected while 2 wars were being fought.
* More than a terabyte of information was stolen in 2007
* Malicious code has been found in defense systems that control U.S. nuclear arms....
* Not even sure you could count how much corporate information has been stolen in this century.....
In this new economy, a lot of companies are going to be forced to go to these new markets if they want to survive. Doing business with China is very scary, as they are unscrupulous. You cite Apple as one example.... but how many more examples are there where a company makes arrangements for a product to be produced..... and all of a sudden the Chinese are making there own copies with the original logo? They fake viagara, heart medication, kemo medicines..... anything.
Yet our governments still seek out trade agreements with them. Why? Who is that benefitting?
I would argue it benefits massive corporations..... Walmart, Apple, Monsanto, ADM, McDonalds, Coca Cola..... The U.S. Government works for corporations. They are funded by super-pacs, and make laws accordingly. Cheap labour, and huge new markets are the rewards.
OTB..... it is clear to me that you have a far better education than me. However, I'm smart enough to read the writing on the wall.
Why don't we try embargoing China, the way the U.S. embargo's Cuba?
Bulk of the money earned from MIC goods are not made by the chinese doing assembly work, the money is made on high end chips which are designed and manufactured outside of china (most likely in the US or another first world country) and made when the goods come back and a branded logo gets stamped on them. North Americans get so mad that the the chinese get $10 for assembling a product that retails for $500, the government makes more than the chinese do on each MIC product sold, but we are ready to go to thermo nuclear war over table scraps because we need someone to blame for our ills.
China will eventually have proper IP laws and enforcement in place, but that will only happen once they have more to lose than gain. The brits used to regard the US like the way we regard china now, it was not until the US built up a substantial amount of intellectual capital that they started to respect/make copyright IP laws so to protect themselves from being stolen from. Walt f*cken Disney stole every folk tale and story idea it ever came across, once they stole enough and were at risk of being stolen from, they lobbied the sh*t out of congress to put in strict copyright laws so others could not repay Disney in kind.
China will eventually have proper IP laws and enforcement in place, but that will only happen once they have more to lose than gain. The brits used to regard the US like the way we regard china now, it was not until the US built up a substantial amount of intellectual capital that they started to respect/make copyright IP laws so to protect themselves from being stolen from. Walt f*cken Disney stole every folk tale and story idea it ever came across, once they stole enough and were at risk of being stolen from, they lobbied the sh*t out of congress to put in strict copyright laws so others could not repay Disney in kind.
All of your points are correct.... my point is simply that our gov't allow corporations to outsource jobs to 3rd world countries. Consumers don't get the cost savings.... it only lines the pockets of corporations and investors. (Nike shoes sell for $80 - $150 a pair, yet are made for a few dollars.
Allowing this to happen in countries where human rights violations are abysmal..... and whose military and industrial complex have been caught time and time again stealing intellectual property. Its a joke. So again.... why does it happen? Because the super rich make the rules. They make the rules to suit themselves.
It can be argued that North America steals secrets too I'm sure. If other countries don't want to deal with us because of that, that is their business.
To me the issue is not outsourced jobs, the issue is that companies now earn alot more money from outsourcing labor but those extra profits do not get taxed.
Part of the reason why the NSA operates such a huge network of electronic spies is commercial/industrial espionage on behalf of american corporations, and to have an unfair advantage when it comes to negotiating trade and commerce agreements with other countries.
The issue is that the entire way the economic system works is f*cked up, If the CEO of Apple decides to move all production to the US because he and all his employees love America, the stock price will drop, and shareholders will sue Apple because apple is not pursuing the most maximum profits. If the CEO of Apple decides to bring all the money hidden in accounts around the world into the US where it gets taxed, again the stock price will drop, and shareholders will sue Apple.
If China was out of the picture, another country will take it's place to be the world's sweatshop, now if you took all the other 3rd and 2nd world countries out of the picture you know what is going to happen? Every poor able bodied man and woman will be thrown in jail for jwalking and expired licenses, given harsh sentences and put to work earning 25 cents an hour making goods for walmart.
Part of the reason why the NSA operates such a huge network of electronic spies is commercial/industrial espionage on behalf of american corporations, and to have an unfair advantage when it comes to negotiating trade and commerce agreements with other countries.
The issue is that the entire way the economic system works is f*cked up, If the CEO of Apple decides to move all production to the US because he and all his employees love America, the stock price will drop, and shareholders will sue Apple because apple is not pursuing the most maximum profits. If the CEO of Apple decides to bring all the money hidden in accounts around the world into the US where it gets taxed, again the stock price will drop, and shareholders will sue Apple.
If China was out of the picture, another country will take it's place to be the world's sweatshop, now if you took all the other 3rd and 2nd world countries out of the picture you know what is going to happen? Every poor able bodied man and woman will be thrown in jail for jwalking and expired licenses, given harsh sentences and put to work earning 25 cents an hour making goods for walmart.
Doesn't matter if your in China or in USA , Canada. You only get rich if your a businessman / banker. Middle class cubicle slaves will keep declining. The rich buy up real estate forcing price up. Middle classe has to pay the same price end up in heavy mortgage debts, enslaved to cubicle jobs for life.
*** 1) China abuses workers. Poor wages, no safety standards, no recourse to the law, gives Chinese corporations a huge cost advantage
*** 2) China has no environmental standards. They can dump toxic waste right into rivers without having to spend money on safe disposal
*** 3) The Chinese Government manipulates the value of its currency.... giving them an unfair cost advantage because of a false exchange rate
*** 4) China Steals technology. Google had its source code stolen by a Chinese competitor, and had to leave that market. Boeing and Airbus have been forced to share technology in order to manufacture in China, and have been given notice they have to leave in 5 years. The Chinese corporation that has their technology will be making jets and engines, competing against Boeing and Airbus.... undercutting their price.
*** 5) You could die. Tainted products and foods have already killed because of the lack of safety standards in that country.
**** The USDA only has the capacity to inspect 1% of Talapea imported from China. Of the 1%, 65% of that has been rejected due to Mercury contamination.
***** WHY DO THE AMERICAN AND CANADIAN GOVERNMENTS STILL INSIST ON TRADING WITH CHINA?!?!?!?
(Don't let sensationalized computer graphics fool you... the information these economists and politicians give is very insightful)
Source:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73jzUu6REUw
Unfortunately its almost impossible to do so anymore. The above photo just shows how much goods comes to NA from China and thats just ONE ship.
You can see the IP issues now just shopping amazon, where there so many nearly identical products by different companies.
That won't change until companies can get products made as cheaply somewhere else with proper IP laws.
AF
The US Treasury has been underwritten by China for a while now, so that America can no longer tell their banker what to do. China is also a major creditor and in some cases the biggest creditor to many nations in the Paris Club although they are not a member.
The WHO is also now obviously heavily leveraged by China.
China now has America and Canada by the balls in many ways so that trading with China is now done out of necessity rather than insistence. This scenario has been involving for a long time and well crafted by the Chinese Communist Party elites since Nixon visited China. This is “China’s Century “as many in the West like “ Joe and Jane six pack” sit back and watch Netflix and drink beer, the ruthless totalitarian PRC working 24/7 steams ahead. As America retracts globally, China moves in take up the voids everywhere including perpetually developing economies in Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe and South America.
The US Treasury has been underwritten by China for a while now, so that America can no longer tell their banker what to do. China is also a major creditor and in some cases the biggest creditor to many nations in the Paris Club although they are not a member.
The WHO is also now obviously heavily leveraged by China.
Difficult but not entirely impossible. Even before the covid virus my personal choice has been to look for alternatives. If it costs a bit more so be it...I would rather not support a communist regime that kills and tortures it's own citizens, not to mention the economic damage and loss of life due to the covid virus cover-up. We may never know the truth about Covid-19.
For over a year I went vegan, it required effort but I did not starve and I actually saved money. You can do the same with Chinese products. The Chinese people will hopefully one day be free from tyranny. Canadian athletes should absolutely not go to the Beijing 2022 Winter Olympics. Trudeau naively thinks they can ask the CCP to change by attending.
With respect to the link No. 1 (that interestingly I posted in 2013), the GOOD NEWS is that Stelco was reborn out of the ashes.
I haven't followed the story exactly, however, I believe that a group of investors bought the Hilton Works and re-opened as Stelco.
They are publicly trades on the TSX and their shares are doing quite well.
But I agree with you, China is truly an evil empire and the west should do everything in its power to no longer due business with them. The problem is that too many fat cats in the west have made too much money trading with China and its cheap labour. (China was the one thing I was fully on side with Trump about. He was fully correct on his assessment of China.)
People love to paint Russia as the big enemy. But I never believed that the Russians were going to attack North America. I always figured it would be China and no, more than ever, I believe that to be true. Watching things unfold in Taiwan, Hong Kong, I figure in the next 10 years there will be a war between Taiwan and China. It will be ugly. Worse still, the relationship between China and the Philippines is getting more and more tense ever day. It's coming.
