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Ford passed the legislation for ripping up the bike lanes TODAY!!

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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Of course, Olivia Chow and the leftist Toronto city council, support this chick imported from Seattle......LMAO

She is a hire of the right-wing, center-right mayor, John Tory, and his majority right-wing, center-right council of Toronto.

All of these bike lanes, not sure about Etobicoke, were the product of the above right-wing, center-right mayor and council majority.

Mitch get your shit straight, please.
 
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mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,228
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Really?

Doug and yourself, know with absolute certainty that people will die as a direct cause of his actions.

Shield the gov't aka himself from lawsuits confirms this.
The amendment is - I suspect - designed to shield the government from nuisance lawsuits as any cyclist involved in any way in a collision would try and involve the provincial government.

But it's silly. The government is actually immune from liability for policy decisions made by the legislature when enacting legislation.

I'm skeptical that injuries to cyclists are going to increase noticeably. In my several decades living in downtown TO, I've seen one accident involving a cyclist and a car.
 

JuanGoodman

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Jun 29, 2019
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She is a hire of the right-wing, center-right mayor, John Tory, and majority his majority right-wing center-right council of Toronto.

All of these bike lanes, not sure about Etobicoke, were the product of the above right-wing, center-right mayor and council majority.

Mitch get your shit straight, please.
it doesn't matter who build the bike lanes

what matters is that they are going to be removed
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,745
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Who is this guy? I want to give him a hug. Like I've said many times before, I'm an avid (+10 C.) cyclist who gets around the city just fine, by taking current bike lanes on major roads or one of the infinite number of side streets. If I do have to ride on a major street that doesn't have a bike lane, I make sure I'm aware of my surroundings, ride close to the curb and don't do stupid shit that puts my life in jeopardy.

Cycling zealots will always bring up the fact that 6 cyclists died last year. My question is, who was at fault in those deaths and what were the circumstances surrounding them? Because simply stating a number, doesn't help anyone.

A friend of a friend's daughter was left in a coma this summer, in a cycling collision. Without knowing the facts, typically one side (the cyclists) will use that as just reason for adding additional bike lanes and preventing the removal of others. Most will also assume she was hit by a car. I mean, cyclists are never at fault in the eyes of the cycling community (Cycle Toronto) right?

Well, in this case, she was riding in a bike lane when a food delivery courier, passing her on an e-bike, clipped her handlebar, causing her to fall and strike her head on the asphalt. She was not wearing a helmet. I haven't heard how she is or even if she's still alive, but at the time, she had been in a coma for weeks and the prognosis wasn't good. Of course, the food courier couldn't be identified, and never stopped.
 
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GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
12,745
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The amendment is - I suspect - designed to shield the government from nuisance lawsuits as any cyclist involved in any way in a collision would try and involve the provincial government.

But it's silly. The government is actually immune from liability for policy decisions made by the legislature when enacting legislation.

I'm skeptical that injuries to cyclists are going to increase noticeably. In my several decades living in downtown TO, I've seen one accident involving a cyclist and a car.
That's exactly what the amendment is for. Motorists are required to have insurance, you know, in case they're involved in a collision with a cyclist.

While I'm pretty sure you're right, that the government is immune from liability for policy decisions (can you imagine if they weren't) this is just another level of protection and I see nothing wrong with it. Considering the lengths the cycling community will go to, headed by The Biking Lawyer LLP, the government was wise to do this.
 
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mandrill

Well-known member
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76,228
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That's exactly what the amendment is for. Motorists are required to have insurance, you know, in case they're involved in a collision with a cyclist.

While I'm pretty sure you're right, that the government is immune from liability for policy decisions (can you imagine if they weren't) this is just another level of protection and I see nothing wrong with it. Considering the lengths the cycling community will go to, headed by The Biking Lawyer LLP, the government was wise to do this.
It's the new wave of crap. I got involved in a thread on X about a fatality on the Bayview extension. Initially, the biketards claimed that it was a cyclist and that he would have been "saved" by bike lanes. Then it turned out that he was a pedestrian. Not sure who was at fault there, but the vic certainly wouldn't have been saved by bike lanes.

I suggested that and mentioned that - IIRC - the Bayview Extension is quite aggressively bike-laned already. Got hit with a ranting mass of biketards demanding that the speed limits everywhere be drastically reduced to "save pedestrians and cyclists from motorists".

The morally superior ranting against motorists is really over the top! The Biking Lawyer is a prime asshole.
 
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Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,882
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It's the new wave of crap. I got involved in a thread on X about a fatality on the Bayview extension. Initially, the biketards claimed that it was a cyclist and that he would have been "saved" by bike lanes. Then it turned out that he was a pedestrian. Not sure who was at fault there, but the vic certainly wouldn't have been saved by bike lanes.

I suggested that and mentioned that - IIRC - the Bayview Extension is quite aggressively bike-laned already. Got hit with a ranting mass of biketards demanding that the speed limits everywhere be drastically reduced to "save pedestrians and cyclists from motorists".

The morally superior ranting against motorists is really over the top! The Biking Lawyer is a prime asshole.
Think there’s a ‘war on the car’? Here’s the truth behind the rhetoric in Toronto
Nov. 23, 2024

By Shawn Micallef Contributing Columnist
Shawn Micallef is a Toronto-based writer and a freelance contributing columnist for the Star.

For decades, some have bleated on and on about a “war on the car.”

Any tiny improvement in road safety for pedestrians, cyclists or even drivers themselves has been met with complaints. Even the act of asking (begging, really) for things that can save life or limb is greeted with alarm from some as if it were part of this “war.”

So what if we declare an actual “war,” then?

Clearly one side of this debate is itching to do so by using, even metaphorically, the word “war” to describe the excruciatingly slow and incremental addition of safe infrastructure in Toronto. The Ford government’s Bill 212 to remove some of those relatively modest improvements is — to lean into the ridiculous rhetoric — an act of war. So is the surprise amendment banning lawsuits against the province if cyclists are killed or injured where lanes are removed. That’s a clear indication they know what they’re doing could grievously harm people.

Consider how the safe infrastructure fight is waged instead. Bike lanes on Bloor took decades of advocacy, but because a small group of business people with Progressive Conservative connections called “Balance on Bloor” have the premier’s ear, as reported by The Trillium, they might be removed quickly. That such a move is politically popular with the majority of Ontarians, even if some live outside of or far from Toronto, gives Ford the cover he needs to make it.

The handful of high-profile lanes notwithstanding, most streets in Toronto have zero bike infrastructure. The ironic shamelessness of including “balance” in the name of the advocacy group demonstrates a swaggering disrespect to Ontarians and disregard of good faith.

Good faith is important here. Bike lane implementation required studies, engineering reports and often extensive public consultation. Meanwhile, opponents of safer streets have been treated with kid gloves. Toronto police admitted to giving up on traffic enforcement, gaslighting residents by saying they were doing so. A city walk today is rife with red-light running, rolling stops and other aggressive behaviour.

Businesses leery or even against lanes were also treated the same, presented with studies showing businesses can thrive with lanes and cyclists are good customers. Business groups like Bloor Annex BIA have even spoken up and made that case themselves.

The response to that good faith has been “Balance on Bloor” and Bill 212.

As reported by the Star, the Ford government used outdated cycling ridership figures while new, higher, numbers have not been released publicly. Trillium reported that the draft of a briefing document prepared for Ford’s cabinet contained research that demonstrated removing bike lanes could actually worsen congestion, but it hasn’t been discussed publicly either. Why not be transparent? Why the bad faith?

All this obfuscation and scapegoating hides the truth from drivers: the main enemy in any perceived war is other drivers. Only fewer cars on the road will solve the issue of congestion.

In this rhetorical war, cyclists are often characterized as soft, weak or even “woke,” but there is nothing tougher than a cyclist in Toronto. They ride through heat, cold, rain and, yes, even the handful of days Toronto gets snow. Adults and children ride on fraught streets bereft of safe infrastructure. Rarely can a route from A to B be completed entirely using safe infrastructure, though until Bill 212 we were heading in the right direction.

Toronto cyclists and pedestrians contend with some drivers who use their vehicles as weapons. Drivers who creep toward them when using a crosswalk, as if trying to get them out of the way faster. When almost nailed by a driver’s actions, pedestrians and cyclists frequently get a little happy wave of “sorry!” like it’s no big deal. That’s a microcosm of the problem in this debate: it’s life or death, but one side doesn’t see that.

But before heading into battle, it’s worth asking if anyone would actually win such a war. If the cyclists stop shopping at the businesses fighting safety measures such as protected bike lanes, would that satisfy anyone? If bike lanes disappear, and every cyclist takes up an entire lane of traffic instead (calling it the “Doug Ford Express”) who would come out ahead? It may be legally allowed under the Highway Traffic Act, and likely to happen when the separated lanes disappear, but it would also be extremely risky — to the person on two wheels and the one driving the car.

If declaring a “war on the car” seems extreme, it’s simply a reflection of the rules of engagement and rhetoric established by Ford and those opposed to safer streets. If they accuse cyclists and pedestrians of waging war, a war they should get.
 
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Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,882
3,462
113
It's the new wave of crap. I got involved in a thread on X about a fatality on the Bayview extension. Initially, the biketards claimed that it was a cyclist and that he would have been "saved" by bike lanes. Then it turned out that he was a pedestrian. Not sure who was at fault there, but the vic certainly wouldn't have been saved by bike lanes.
A pedestrian?

Maybe after being struck while on his bike and knocked off said bike onto the pavement by a careless and reckless driver, said cyclist would be deemed to be officially declared a pedestrian on X and by yourself.

Never let a fact, a cyclist, or the death of cyclist obscure your careless and reckless version of war on the car fantasies.

Hundreds of cyclists pay respects to man who died after being struck by driver
Vlad Zotov, 59, a cyclist, died in hospital after collision, according to Morning Glory Cycling Club
CBC News · Posted: Apr 15, 2024 10:42 PM EDT | Last Updated: April 16


'A remarkable human being': Hundreds join ghost bike ride to honour cyclist killed

Hundreds of cyclists took part in a memorial bike ride on Monday for a man struck and killed by a driver last week in Toronto.

In memory of Vlad Zotov, 59, cyclists attached a memorial bike to a pole above a metal guardrail near the scene of the fatal collision on April 8.

Zotov, a member of the Morning Glory Cycling Club, was struck by an SUV while riding his bike on Bayview Avenue near a Don Valley Parkway off ramp.

According to police, a man, 38, driving a 2023 Ford Bronco Sport, was exiting the Don Valley Parkway to proceed northbound on Bayview Avenue when he collided with the northbound cyclist.

The collision caused the cyclist to fall, resulting in "significant injuries," and he died in hospital, police said. Officers were called to the area at about 9:25 a.m.

Advocacy for Respect for Cyclists (ARC), an advocacy group for cyclists, identified Zotov but police have not released his name. No charges have been laid in the collision.

Before the ride, hundreds gathered at Matt Cohen Park, near Spadina Avenue and Bloor Street, to honour Zotov.
.
"Thank you all for being here to remember Vlad," Fraser Chapman, president of the Morning Glory Cycling Club, told the crowd.

"He was a remarkable human being. He was a great guy, smiling all the time, so happy to be out."
Ghost bikes are bicycles that are painted white and placed where collisions have occurred that have either killed or seriously injured a cyclist.

Geoffrey Bercarich, a member of ARC who builds the memorial bikes, said it's already been a rough year because traffic has been crazy.

"This is the sixth memorial I've had to do in the Greater Toronto Area, third for Toronto. It doesn't get easier and this year is just starting. And cycling season is not even in full swing. I'm really worried about the future."

According to Chapman, Zotov leaves behind a wife and three children.
 
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GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,745
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A pedestrian?

Maybe after being struck while on his bike and knocked off said bike onto the pavement by a careless and reckless driver, said cyclist would be deemed to be officially declared a pedestrian on X and by yourself.

Never let a fact, a cyclist, or the death of cyclist obscure your careless and reckless version of war on the car fantasies.

Hundreds of cyclists pay respects to man who died after being struck by driver
Vlad Zotov, 59, a cyclist, died in hospital after collision, according to Morning Glory Cycling Club
CBC News · Posted: Apr 15, 2024 10:42 PM EDT | Last Updated: April 16


'A remarkable human being': Hundreds join ghost bike ride to honour cyclist killed

Hundreds of cyclists took part in a memorial bike ride on Monday for a man struck and killed by a driver last week in Toronto.

In memory of Vlad Zotov, 59, cyclists attached a memorial bike to a pole above a metal guardrail near the scene of the fatal collision on April 8.

Zotov, a member of the Morning Glory Cycling Club, was struck by an SUV while riding his bike on Bayview Avenue near a Don Valley Parkway off ramp.

According to police, a man, 38, driving a 2023 Ford Bronco Sport, was exiting the Don Valley Parkway to proceed northbound on Bayview Avenue when he collided with the northbound cyclist.

The collision caused the cyclist to fall, resulting in "significant injuries," and he died in hospital, police said. Officers were called to the area at about 9:25 a.m.

Advocacy for Respect for Cyclists (ARC), an advocacy group for cyclists, identified Zotov but police have not released his name. No charges have been laid in the collision.

Before the ride, hundreds gathered at Matt Cohen Park, near Spadina Avenue and Bloor Street, to honour Zotov.
.
"Thank you all for being here to remember Vlad," Fraser Chapman, president of the Morning Glory Cycling Club, told the crowd.

"He was a remarkable human being. He was a great guy, smiling all the time, so happy to be out."
Ghost bikes are bicycles that are painted white and placed where collisions have occurred that have either killed or seriously injured a cyclist.

Geoffrey Bercarich, a member of ARC who builds the memorial bikes, said it's already been a rough year because traffic has been crazy.

"This is the sixth memorial I've had to do in the Greater Toronto Area, third for Toronto. It doesn't get easier and this year is just starting. And cycling season is not even in full swing. I'm really worried about the future."

According to Chapman, Zotov leaves behind a wife and three children.
I feel for this cyclist and his family, I really do. That said, I often travel that part of the Bayview Extension. But for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would ride a bike on that roadway, when there's a completely dedicated bike path that runs parallel. Not victim blaming, but the spot where this individual died, is where cars are merging from the ramp onto Bayview. I'm sorry, but if I was riding a bike along that section of roadway, I would assume traffic may not see me, and therefore act/ride defensively and accordingly.

It's sad that he lost his life, but as a cyclist, you have to be super aware. And for God's sake, if there a dedicated bike lane a few feet away, use it!
 

Leimonis

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Feb 28, 2020
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I feel for this cyclist and his family, I really do. That said, I often travel that part of the Bayview Extension. But for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would ride a bike on that roadway, when there's a completely dedicated bike path that runs parallel. Not victim blaming, but the spot where this individual died, is where cars are merging from the ramp onto Bayview. I'm sorry, but if I was riding a bike along that section of roadway, I would assume traffic may not see me, and therefore act/ride defensively and accordingly.

It's sad that he lost his life, but as a cyclist, you have to be super aware. And for God's sake, if there a dedicated bike lane a few feet away, use it!
I wonder what actually happened there
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,745
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I wonder what actually happened there
If you drive that section of the Bayview Extension, you can easily see how a collision could occur there. You have a ramp, that merges with northbound traffic, on a sweeping right hand bend. A cyclist rounding the bend, would be in the blind spot of vehicles merging onto Bayview. Considering there's a dedicated bike path, on that whole stretch, adjacent to Bayview, it's extremely rare that you would encounter a cyclist on that section of the roadway. Personally, I would never put myself in danger like that.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,882
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it doesn't matter who build the bike lanes

what matters is that they are going to be removed
It doesn't matter that some bike lanes may be removed.

What matters is that this will not do a thing to alleviate congestion in any way, shape, form or matter

You'll still have hundreds, upon hundreds of thousands of motor vehicle drivers blaming everyone else and everything else except their own motor vehicles and themselves for being stuck like squealing oinkers in congestion and gridlock caused by themselves.
 
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JuanGoodman

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Jun 29, 2019
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You'll still have hundreds, upon hundreds of thousands of motor vehicle drivers blaming everyone else and everything else except their own motor vehicles and themselves for being stuck like squealing oinkers in congestion and gridlock caused by themselves.
as long as I get to squeal in 2 lanes
 
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Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,882
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If you drive that section of the Bayview Extension, you can easily see how a collision could occur there. You have a ramp, that merges with northbound traffic, on a sweeping right hand bend. A cyclist rounding the bend, would be in the blind spot of vehicles merging onto Bayview. Considering there's a dedicated bike path, on that whole stretch, adjacent to Bayview, it's extremely rare that you would encounter a cyclist on that section of the roadway. Personally, I would never put myself in danger like that.
No blind spots at all.

Plenty of time, plenty of unobstructed views of northbound traffic for motorists on the ramp merging onto NB Bayview.

How could the driver of the pickup not see the cyclist having the right of way unless he was not paying attention to what he was supposed to be paying attention to/

The ramp is long, and unobstructed for such a large stretch that only an inattentive, careless and/or reckless driver would be the cause of this cyclist's death.


bayview1.PNG
bayview.PNG

You really go out of your way, way out to always, aways doubt, cast aspersions and /or fault cyclists while constantly lauding, praising and saluting motor vehicle drivers.
 
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JuanGoodman

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Jun 29, 2019
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It doesn't matter that some bike lanes may be removed.

What matters is that this will not do a thing to alleviate congestion in any way, shape, form or matter
let me put it to you this way

if there were 2 escorts who worked 12 hr days

and were booked solid with 1 hr appointments

then both of them could service 24 guys a day

if you took one escort away, now the other one

would have to work 24hrs a day to service those same 24 guys

you see a problem with that arrangement?

please stay away from the bottle before your rebuttal
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,882
3,462
113
let me put it to you this way

if there were 2 escorts who worked 12 hr days

and were booked solid with 1 hr appointments

then both of them could service 24 guys a day

if you took one escort away, now the other one

would have to work 24hrs a day to service those same 24 guys

you see a problem with that arrangement?

please stay away from the bottle before your rebuttal
If you have millions of motor vehicles all fighting each other for every square centimeter of paved tar would traffic congestion, gridlock be the result?

Stay away from the pablum before you make a further fool of yourself.

traffic.PNG

traffic2.PNG
 
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mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,228
86,976
113
If you have millions of motor vehicles all fighting each other for every square centimeter of paved tar would traffic congestion, gridlock be the result?

Stay away from the pablum before you make a further fool of yourself.

View attachment 380997

View attachment 381000
Annie, stop posting that photo.

The cars aren't going away. It's been pointed out to you a dozen times that the GTA's too big and too under serviced by public transit.

Posting gridlock photos from the 401 and DVP isn't relevant to the downtown bike lanes. You consistently attain and maintain Mitchell levels of stupid in these threads. In several months, you haven't posted a cogent argument. You just insult other guys and post the highway photos.

Just stop it. It's sad and pathetic.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
76,228
86,976
113
Think there’s a ‘war on the car’? Here’s the truth behind the rhetoric in Toronto
Nov. 23, 2024

By Shawn Micallef Contributing Columnist
Shawn Micallef is a Toronto-based writer and a freelance contributing columnist for the Star.

For decades, some have bleated on and on about a “war on the car.”

Any tiny improvement in road safety for pedestrians, cyclists or even drivers themselves has been met with complaints. Even the act of asking (begging, really) for things that can save life or limb is greeted with alarm from some as if it were part of this “war.”

So what if we declare an actual “war,” then?

Clearly one side of this debate is itching to do so by using, even metaphorically, the word “war” to describe the excruciatingly slow and incremental addition of safe infrastructure in Toronto. The Ford government’s Bill 212 to remove some of those relatively modest improvements is — to lean into the ridiculous rhetoric — an act of war. So is the surprise amendment banning lawsuits against the province if cyclists are killed or injured where lanes are removed. That’s a clear indication they know what they’re doing could grievously harm people.

Consider how the safe infrastructure fight is waged instead. Bike lanes on Bloor took decades of advocacy, but because a small group of business people with Progressive Conservative connections called “Balance on Bloor” have the premier’s ear, as reported by The Trillium, they might be removed quickly. That such a move is politically popular with the majority of Ontarians, even if some live outside of or far from Toronto, gives Ford the cover he needs to make it.

The handful of high-profile lanes notwithstanding, most streets in Toronto have zero bike infrastructure. The ironic shamelessness of including “balance” in the name of the advocacy group demonstrates a swaggering disrespect to Ontarians and disregard of good faith.

Good faith is important here. Bike lane implementation required studies, engineering reports and often extensive public consultation. Meanwhile, opponents of safer streets have been treated with kid gloves. Toronto police admitted to giving up on traffic enforcement, gaslighting residents by saying they were doing so. A city walk today is rife with red-light running, rolling stops and other aggressive behaviour.

Businesses leery or even against lanes were also treated the same, presented with studies showing businesses can thrive with lanes and cyclists are good customers. Business groups like Bloor Annex BIA have even spoken up and made that case themselves.

The response to that good faith has been “Balance on Bloor” and Bill 212.

As reported by the Star, the Ford government used outdated cycling ridership figures while new, higher, numbers have not been released publicly. Trillium reported that the draft of a briefing document prepared for Ford’s cabinet contained research that demonstrated removing bike lanes could actually worsen congestion, but it hasn’t been discussed publicly either. Why not be transparent? Why the bad faith?

All this obfuscation and scapegoating hides the truth from drivers: the main enemy in any perceived war is other drivers. Only fewer cars on the road will solve the issue of congestion.

In this rhetorical war, cyclists are often characterized as soft, weak or even “woke,” but there is nothing tougher than a cyclist in Toronto. They ride through heat, cold, rain and, yes, even the handful of days Toronto gets snow. Adults and children ride on fraught streets bereft of safe infrastructure. Rarely can a route from A to B be completed entirely using safe infrastructure, though until Bill 212 we were heading in the right direction.

Toronto cyclists and pedestrians contend with some drivers who use their vehicles as weapons. Drivers who creep toward them when using a crosswalk, as if trying to get them out of the way faster. When almost nailed by a driver’s actions, pedestrians and cyclists frequently get a little happy wave of “sorry!” like it’s no big deal. That’s a microcosm of the problem in this debate: it’s life or death, but one side doesn’t see that.

But before heading into battle, it’s worth asking if anyone would actually win such a war. If the cyclists stop shopping at the businesses fighting safety measures such as protected bike lanes, would that satisfy anyone? If bike lanes disappear, and every cyclist takes up an entire lane of traffic instead (calling it the “Doug Ford Express”) who would come out ahead? It may be legally allowed under the Highway Traffic Act, and likely to happen when the separated lanes disappear, but it would also be extremely risky — to the person on two wheels and the one driving the car.

If declaring a “war on the car” seems extreme, it’s simply a reflection of the rules of engagement and rhetoric established by Ford and those opposed to safer streets. If they accuse cyclists and pedestrians of waging war, a war they should get.
It's not that difficult.

Toronto is gridlocked. A dedicated, massive, fat bike lane means that traffic lanes on Bloor, Yonge, College and now Davenport are reduced to 1 lane instead of 2 lanes. That means only 1/2 the # of cars can pass a certain point at any given time. So there is less traffic flow and traffic backs up.

So balance the utility of the bike lanes against their detriment in reducing traffic flow. Only 1.2% of commuters use the bike lanes. The other 98% are cars.

Even in the downtown core, massively more people drive than use bikes.

So the bike lanes have to go. Cyclists rode on the streets before the bike lanes - usually fairly safely. They will do so again. And vehicular traffic will move faster. Most people think it a win.
 
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