Liberals applauded hefty carbon tax for a farmer

[Skoob]

its been shown there is lots of land available to build homes without using the Green belt. Once the mechanism exists to build there it won't stop expecially with a huge highway being built. Don't tell me you are that niave. Besides home building has nothing to do with the subect. As for a carbon tax, it will work, the only question is, to what degree and at what rate. Are you telling me you don't use less gas when prices soar? If you are really rich I guess it does not matter but demand destruction is real. And when you offer incentives to other options then you get conversion.

If someone needs to drive because there are no other viable options then they don't have a choice to use less gas. Not everyone lives downtown and close to transit. Would you accept empty grocery store shelves because the shipping company couldn't deliver due to the high cost of fuel? How do you think they make up for that additional cost?

Lots of land available where? Not everyone wants to commute several hours every day just to be able to afford a home. The greenbelt land was in reasonable proximity to the city and the land that was marked for development was being replaced with even more protected land elsewhere.
You used .15 % in your argument to make a point that it wasn't significant. I used .3% in my argument for the same purpose.

Toronto is getting bigger every year in terms of population. With that growth, people need to live somewhere and roads need to be built. Not everyone wants to live in a condo downtown.

Lastly, can you provide a mathematical explanation that demonstrates how each dollar collected as carbon tax actually improves the climate? I'll wait.

 

[nottyboi]

Fact you’re missing, and either willfully blind to, or just blind to.

Did you miss the words “not the only family or small business? Or not the only farm..

Did you miss the words manufacturing to, etc and so on. And much more..Of coarse you did because you can’t handle facts, history or the truth.

As for 2014..While Harper was at the wheel pre, during and post 2008. While manufacturing losses were also happening that you stuck your head in the sand and are doing it all over again..

Did you miss the words “Energy” in the article. You know Hydro…..you know Ontario…Remind us all about that if you’re capable. I suppose you also forget the new politically correct term “Energy Poverty”…Jesus you can’t even handle that…Ontarios shithole is somehow Harper’s fault…though he did have to contend with job losses here, a mess here.

Of coarse you did.
Because you can’t handle facts, history and the truth of the matter.

Not the least of which is somehow forgetting that the billions in debt incurred during Covid for families and small businesses was to try and keep some afloat..Gee I wonder why.

Hydro and gas rates in Ontario are very reasonable imho, and nat gas price is quite low even with the carbon tax . Many small businesse were put under pressure from the pandemic. If you look at the world, inflation is everywhere. If Canada slashed and burned govt spending there would still be inflation as we are not a significant factor in the global economy. Ontario is not a shithole. there are some shitholes in Ontario for sure, as there are all over Canada.

 

[Not getting younger]

Hydro and gas rates in Ontario are very reasonable imho, and nat gas price is quite low even with the carbon tax . Many small businesse were put under pressure from the pandemic. If you look at the world, inflation is everywhere. If Canada slashed and burned govt spending there would still be inflation as we are not a significant factor in the global economy. Ontario is not a shithole. there are some shitholes in Ontario for sure, as there are all over Canada.

In your opinion.
1) you almost certainly live in the city…have public transit etc, nor HAVE to drive as far, as often.

2) millions of Canadians disagree. See also PPs popularity and reasons why.

3) See also home heating cost and lack of Nat GAS. I bet you’re not aware a ton of people are “stuck” using Hydro… so maybe you think it’s ok because you have a silver spoon, are pampered and have no appetites reality and how good….you…have it..

4) See history and when the term Energy Poverty became a thing. If rates were reasonable would that be a fact? See also manufacturing leaving and don’t forget rural rates are higher. See also election issues from 2010…Not unlike home heating..

See Fords campaign promises. Or like you’ve forgotten so many people. Have you forgotten those? I bet you’re not aware he just borrowed a ton more $$ to give people a rebate. Is that a fix?


5) If things were reasonable why are immigrants whining about the cost of living, and many many many more..and don’t forget outside the city, jobs are fewer, don’t pay as much especially these days…and “everything” is more expensive.. or do you not know that, because you don’t leave the city…

And on
And on
And on
And on

Edit add
Luckily for “me” I have job security and get paid well working for the government..others………

This is my October heating bill…good thing my kids are gone, I don’t do 5 loads of laundry a week, don’t have 4 mouths to feed, don’t have 4 cars in the drive way so they and the wife can get to work/hockey…and what few good paying jobs there are..outside the center of the universe

Care to put up 1 month? Or shall I wait for Feb, when bills are $850?

 

[nottyboi]

There are people using hydro with baseboard heaters and paying an insane fortune. Those people have the option of switching to heat pump with govt grants or propane yet they just chose to do NOTHING. They live in rural areas and pay huge electricity transport costs ,because thats what the cost is. I know I am very privilaged. Frankly having a really nice winter home overseas is a major privilage I never thought i would attain. Even as a city dweller I am considering use of govt grants to lower my energy costs and build redundancy. Canada HAS NO CHOICE as we are subect to the tyranny of the G7. And the G7 has decided carbon bad. If you think PEPE can come in, toss the Paris accords and tell the G7 to sod off without massive negative ramificatons to Canada then you are a fool.

 

[Not getting younger]

There are people using hydro with baseboard heaters and paying an insane fortune. Those people have the option of switching to heat pump with govt grants or propane yet they just chose to do NOTHING. They live in rural areas and pay huge electricity transport costs ,because thats what the cost is. I know I am very privilaged. Frankly having a really nice winter home overseas is a major privilage I never thought i would attain. Even as a city dweller I am considering use of govt grants to lower my energy costs and build redundancy. Canada HAS NO CHOICE as we are subect to the tyranny of the G7. And the G7 has decided carbon bad. If you think PEPE can come in, toss the Paris accords and tell the G7 to sod off without massive negative ramificatons to Canada then you are a fool.

We always have choices and they always have consequences. Whether that’s where we live and work…who we marry…how we spend our money…who we vote for…

Not sure why this has to be harped on so much. There’s 30 years of data and science, dire warnings. People have denied and denied, stuck their heads in the sand, there are signs everywhere. No I’m not talking climate change and those deniers, I’m talking about the disappearing middle class. And other deniers.

See that bill up there?
I have a heat pump..previous owner installed it in 2010. That family of 5 also had forced air electric. Cost me $6,000 to put in propane. Luckily for me I worked in the GTA and had a 6 figure job for many years……….and still do. Previous family..not so lucky their employers left for greener pastures thanks to you.

Cold climate heat pumps cost $15,000. EVs about $45,000 and solar panels for a modest house about $30,000

The average, typical, working class Canadian.doesnt make close 100k
-Is having a ton of trouble paying for food.
-can’t save for their retirements.
-can’t afford to buy a house or rent
-like many businesses and capital bleed is leaving for greener pastures. Aka the GTA or the US

But you think they have spare change and $100,000 for that shit.

see also youth who leave for University and never return home. Some die hard Lefties can’t grasp why there are more educated “Liberals” in cities…aka add 1 and 1. The right are just dumb red necks.

- You have been warned for 30 years about Boomers too. You ignored and still ignore those warnings. You do I hope grasp that retired people have fixed incomes……get screwed badly when land taxes increase, when hydro rates go up, when home heating cost go up, and don’t have the money for food, lights, heat…appliances, never mind.
Solar panels
Evs
Heat pumps

-Being older, they also have a shit tonne of medical issues. They are, and will continue to cripple health care..

The left, and virtue signalling Liberals like yourself, Frank, most here on the forums and in Ottawa and Queens park. Talk a good game about socioeconomics. But that’s all it is, is talk..

See the disadvantaged and what the left says if the topic was blacks and inner ( instead of outer) cities instead. I could also bring rising violent crime into this…gee that’s a massive coincidence too I’m sure..But then always throw the less fortunate under the bus…

See
Manufacturing and central Ontario
2008
All the above and more like Boomers on fixed incomes and healthcare..

Covid and lockdowns and going billions into debt trying to keep some afloat because they are living paycheck to paycheck. Or have very thin profit margins..

See Carbon taxes, home heating, and Hydro.
See the wealth gap
See much more.
See also Rae, see Wynne, see JT


Proof is in the pudding.
Not only are the Left virtue signalling rabid hypocrites, sadly those in the electorate think they are the only ones that matter……(see above)…who can’t figure out much, never mind why houses are so expensive, why rent is to, or why grid lock is so bad, or why PP is popular, or even why a massive POS like Trump is, for that matter.

 

[nottyboi]

We always have choices and they always have consequences. Whether that’s where we live and work…who we marry…how we spend our money…who we vote for…

Not sure why this has to be harped on so much. There’s 30 years of data and science, dire warnings. People have denied and denied, stuck their heads in the sand, there are signs everywhere. No I’m not talking climate change and those deniers, I’m talking about the disappearing middle class.

See that bill up there? I have a heat pump..previous owner installed it in 2010. That family of 5 also had forced air electric. Cost me $6,000 to put in propane. Luckily for me I worked in the GTA and had a 6 figure job for many years..

Cold climate heat pumps cost $15,000. EVs about $45,000 and solar panels for a modest house about $30,000

The average, typical, working class Canadian.
-Is having a ton of trouble paying for food.
-can’t save for their retirements.
-can’t afford to buy a house or rent
-like many businesses and capital bleed is leaving for greener pastures. Aka the GTA or the US

see also youth who leave for University and never return. Some die hard Lefties can’t grasp why there are more educated “Liberals” in cities…aka add 1 and 1

- You have been warned for 30 years about Boomers too. You ignored and still ignore those warnings. You do I hope grasp that retired people have fixed incomes……get screwed badly when land taxes increase, when hydro rates go up, when home heating cost go up, and don’t have the money for
Solar panels
Evs
Heat pumps

-Being older, they also have a shit tonne of medical issues. They are, and will continue to cripple health care..

The left, and virtue signalling Liberals like yourself, Frank, most here on the forums and in Ottawa and Queens park. Talk a good game about socioeconomics.

See the disadvanted and what the left says if the topic was blacks instead. I could also bring rising violent crime into this…gee that’s a massive coincidence too I’m sure.

But then always throw the less fortunate under the bus…

See
Manufacturing and central Ontario
2008
All the above and more
Covid and lockdowns and going billions into debt trying to keep some afloat because they are living paycheck to paycheck. Or have very thin profit margins..
See Carbon taxes
See the wealth gap
See much more. See also Rae, see Wynne, see JT


Proof is in the pudding. Not only are the Left virtue signalling rabid hypocrites, sadly those in the electorate think they are the only ones that matter..

Beyond all the whining where are the solutions?

 

[Not getting younger]

Beyond all the whining where are the solutions?

Beyond all your whining. About house prices, about rent, about grid lock, about transit, about homeless people, and opiods, about greenbelts, about code blacks, about people without GPs, about healthcare, about crime.

Why is your solution doing more of the same. Is that not the definition of insanity? See also Rae and Wynne. Why can you not learn from history….why do you whine about not enough $$ for Nurses, or LTCs, or A to Z..When you insist on mountains of deb….and throwing others under the bus.

Beyond all your hypocrisy, and lip service pertaining to socioeconomics, and the less fortunate. Be they working class peons, blue collar workers, inner or outer cities, retired seniors. why is your solution to throw the less fortunate under the bus…

Beyond whining, about the right. Why is your solution to create the conditions and environment that makes them popular. Whether their name is Harris, Ford, Pierre or Trump…Why are you so not woke, enlightened and aware.

Why are you so afraid of change. Be that political or climate.

 

[Frankfooter]

Beyond all your whining. About house prices, about rent, about grid lock, about transit, about homeless people, and opiods, about greenbelts, about code blacks, about people without GPs, about healthcare, about crime.

Why is your solution doing more of the same. Is that not the definition of insanity? See also Rae and Wynne. Why can you not learn from history….why do you whine about not enough $$ for Nurses, or LTCs, or A to Z..When you insist on mountains of deb….and throwing others under the bus.

Beyond all your hypocrisy, and lip service pertaining to socioeconomics, and the less fortunate. Be they working class peons, blue collar workers, inner or outer cities, retired seniors. why is your solution to throw the less fortunate under the bus…

Beyond whining, about the right. Why is your solution to create the conditions and environment that makes them popular. Whether their name is Harris, Ford, Pierre or Trump…Why are you so not woke, enlightened and aware.

Why are you so afraid of change. Be that political or climate.

Its you who wants more of the same, you would rather just pay for oil and natural gas rather than switch to cheaper options.
The feds subsidize heat pumps, as they should.

Its idiotic to do nothing anymore.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1737507377870729370

 

[Skoob]

There are people using hydro with baseboard heaters and paying an insane fortune. Those people have the option of switching to heat pump with govt grants or propane yet they just chose to do NOTHING. They live in rural areas and pay huge electricity transport costs ,because thats what the cost is. I know I am very privilaged. Frankly having a really nice winter home overseas is a major privilage I never thought i would attain. Even as a city dweller I am considering use of govt grants to lower my energy costs and build redundancy. Canada HAS NO CHOICE as we are subect to the tyranny of the G7. And the G7 has decided carbon bad. If you think PEPE can come in, toss the Paris accords and tell the G7 to sod off without massive negative ramificatons to Canada then you are a fool.

It's a big ponzi scheme. Where does the money for the grants come from? Taxpayers.
Where does the tax for the equipment & installation go? To the government.
Carbon tax on the manufacturing of the equipment and delivery...goes to the government.
All because someone decided people should be punished for not using their preferred type of heating/cooling.

 

[JohnLarue]

Hydro is not more expensive if you use geothermal energy which is idea for a farm.

god you are ignorant
you assume every farm can access geothermal energy
you assume they have the capital to spend on geothermal, despite getting robbed of an extra $160,000 per year, soon to become $540,000/ year

the better assumption is you are a biased fool who will say anything to protect Justin's evil and stupid carbon tax

its 3-400% efficient, plus they can add solar and wind. to further lower their enegy cost

.
or they can not as their cost have incrementally increased by $160,000 / year, soon to become $540,000/ year

One fact you miss from that article is the farm was a big trouble in 2014...when Harper was PM... soooo yeah its ALL Trudeaus fault.

yet you assumed they could absorb an incremental $160,000 in carbon taxes, taxes independent of profit or loss
how did you put it

$160,000, .... that's nothing

so if the incremental $160,000 in carbon taxes does not drive them into bankruptcy. the carbon tax soon to become $540,000/ year will bankrupt them for sure

god you are ignorant
you do not think before you post

Farming inputs always fluctuate, and farmers must manage these changes like any other busienss.

god you are ignorant, the carbon tax is not an input
take some business courses so you cand talk intelligently

Look at the whining energy indiustry RECORD PROFITS under a LIBERAL TRUDEAU GOVT. those profits are bittersweet, but I am guessing they will take it.

profitable, despite a LIBERAL TRUDEAU GOVT.

you might want to consider where the lost royalty bonanza govts collect will come from if the lunatic steven guilbeault managed to shut down our cash cow energy sector

god you are ignorant

 

[nottyboi]

Beyond all your whining. About house prices, about rent, about grid lock, about transit, about homeless people, and opiods, about greenbelts, about code blacks, about people without GPs, about healthcare, about crime.

Why is your solution doing more of the same. Is that not the definition of insanity? See also Rae and Wynne. Why can you not learn from history….why do you whine about not enough $$ for Nurses, or LTCs, or A to Z..When you insist on mountains of deb….and throwing others under the bus.

Beyond all your hypocrisy, and lip service pertaining to socioeconomics, and the less fortunate. Be they working class peons, blue collar workers, inner or outer cities, retired seniors. why is your solution to throw the less fortunate under the bus…

Beyond whining, about the right. Why is your solution to create the conditions and environment that makes them popular. Whether their name is Harris, Ford, Pierre or Trump…Why are you so not woke, enlightened and aware.

Why are you so afraid of change. Be that political or climate.

The Right, and by this I mean PEPE, has not offered ANY policy alternatives to reforming they system. I have lots of solutions. I would blow the whole medical system to pieces with AI based online GPs and new classes of Dr. and Surgeons with much narrower specilaities. i.e create surgery factories to increase proficiency and output. Foreign docs would be allowed to qualfy much more rapidlly for these limited licences. People can still use the existing system or take the faster route. As for housing I would need to study why construction is so expensive, I really think the issue is price of land, and time lag between land acquistion and completion, as well as financing cost of construction.I think the 3 levels of govt can impact this significantly. But I don't have all the data to confirm this. PEPE has done NOTHING in terms of offering anything other then dumb assed AXE THE TAX, which would be disasterous with respect to the trading relationships we depend on.

 

[Frankfooter]

god you are ignorant
you assume every farm can access geothermal energy
you assume they have the capital to spend on geothermal, despite getting robbed of an extra $160,000 per year, soon to become $540,000/ year

If you have a well you can do geothermal.
But heat pumps are just about as good right now.

 

[Not getting younger]

The Right, and by this I mean PEPE, has not offered ANY policy alternatives to reforming they system. I have lots of solutions. I would blow the whole medical system to pieces with AI based online GPs and new classes of Dr. and Surgeons with much narrower specilaities. i.e create surgery factories to increase proficiency and output. Foreign docs would be allowed to qualfy much more rapidlly for these limited licences. People can still use the existing system or take the faster route. As for housing I would need to study why construction is so expensive, I really think the issue is price of land, and time lag between land acquistion and completion, as well as financing cost of construction.I think the 3 levels of govt can impact this significantly. But I don't have all the data to confirm this. PEPE has done NOTHING in terms of offering anything other then dumb assed AXE THE TAX, which would be disasterous with respect to the trading relationships we depend on.

Our largest trading partner is the U.S………how does their tax regime compare to ours? Is it more attractive or less, to businesses? Why is that so important…Do you know what capital bleed is?

And while Harper smartly did what no other Admin achieved with the EU, If diversification matters, why do not see the lack of it, is a problem here…a major one. You do know I hope there’s more to Canada than the centre of the universe? For example do you know there’s supply and demand… what has you convinced todays problems are supply side?o
Oddly enoughoin the topic of Carbon taxes, are they not targeting demand? Trying to curb it?

How does the Fed rate compare to ours. And if it’s different. Why is it?

can’t help but noticed you had nothing to say about throwing the less fortunate under the bus….

 

[Anbarandy]

Our largest trading partner is the U.S………how does their tax regime compare to ours? Is it more attractive or less, to businesses? And while Harper smartly did what no other Admin acheived. If diversification matters, why do not see the lack of it, is a problem here…

How does the Fed rate compare to ours. And if it’s different. Why is it?

can’t help but noticed you had nothing to say about throwing the less fortunate under the bus….

Why is the sky blue?

Why does the sun rise and set?

Can't help but notice you had nothing to say about that.

 

[nottyboi]

god you are ignorant
you assume every farm can access geothermal energy
you assume they have the capital to spend on geothermal, despite getting robbed of an extra $160,000 per year, soon to become $540,000/ year

You are predictably ignorant on geothermal heat pumps. if you have land you have geothermal. Its that simple. What percentage of farms do not have substantial land? 🥱 thet can get grants and loans thru the govt for green energy initiatives.

 

[JohnLarue]

You are predictably ignorant on geothermal heat pumps. if you have land you have geothermal. Its that simple. What percentage of farms do not have substantial land? 🥱 thet can get grants and loans thru the govt for green energy initiatives.

more ignorance from you

Why is geothermal energy not used in Canada?

Upfront cost and risk is high

The exploratory drilling for geothermal is as complex and uncertain as oil and gas drilling, but the resource at the end doesn't return the level of energy density as a fossil fuel play, Jacek Majorowicz, a University of Alberta professor of physics, said.Feb 27, 2014

and there is this

Geothermal Energy

Geothermal Energy is the exploitable heat within the Earth. The interior of the planet is maintained at a high temperature by a vast store of heat, of which par...

www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca

.

In Canada geothermal potential is found in the sedimentary rocks of the prairies and in a broad band bordering the oceans. The central area of the Canadian landmass, the shield, is too old and cool to yield useful heat.

how big is the Canadian Shield ?

The total potentially usable heat in hot water in the sediments of the prairies is equivalent to 300 times Canada's total energy needs in 1987, but only a small fraction of this heat is readily exploitable at current energy prices and with current technology.

just like one needs an ore body to successful drill for minerals or a hydrocarbon pool to successful drill for oil and gas , there needs to be a pool of hot water to tap into

we can not even find cold ground water for indigenous villiages to tap into

if you have land you have geothermal.

why do spew inaccurate and ignorant statements about issues you obviously do not understand?
is this pathological compulsion to intentionally mislead other hereditary?
or are just too much of a loonie left ideologue to care about about being factually correct, when portraying your ignorance as factual ?

thet can get grants and loans thru the govt for green energy initiatives.

more loonie left ideas to spend other people money to fix the problems created by the loonie left
its time to stop that idiocy, all the borrowed money has been spent, the bill has arrived

here educate your your about the farming of mushrooms
note the extensive use of diesel powered tractors, that wont run on geothermal

 

[Frankfooter]

And while Harper smartly did what no other Admin achieved with the EU,

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1734690231583113528

 

[Not getting younger]

Why is the sky blue?

Why does the sun rise and set?

Can't help but notice you had nothing to say about that.

How very Liberal and 416 of you. Can’t handle facts, history or the truth of the matter. Also blatantly shows how uninterested you are in trying to find, measures that might actually help. It’s just easier to blame the right and DoFo..

 

[Not getting younger]

You are predictably ignorant on geothermal heat pumps. if you have land you have geothermal. Its that simple. What percentage of farms do not have substantial land? 🥱 thet can get grants and loans thru the govt for green energy initiatives.

Geothermal.
Would heat buildings. Yes? So I at least can see why that might help with mushroom farms. I’ve been beaten to the Canadian Shield and reality..but then again, that seems to be a thing that people in the city…..

However, even for those that might
I’m pretty sure there are dozens of farms that do more than grow mushrooms in buildings……..Also pretty sure the vast majority of farmers are smart, at least average IQ. And not dumb red necks. I’m going to assume for now, there are likely reasons they aren’t jumping on it. Am also guessing if this farm has been having trouble with the cost of energy since 2014, and has costed everything else. There might be a reason they want Nat Gas instead. Either way, now we are up to.

Heat pumps
EVs
Solar
Geothermal
When the dirty masses can’t even save $1,000 per year to retire on…I’m also curious what you think that is going cost us in various social services, over and above substance abuse and/or the cost to healthcare that have been ignored for 30 years.

Hence why Walmart parking lots are jammed full on weekends……………Not many years ago they weren’t…in fact around the year 2000-2006 they were often empty….Just another obvious thing people with open eyes should have seen….. never mind being blind to hydro cost and energy poverty…as well as manufacturing losses outside the centre of the universe…and today home heating cost…. And is it not also true that the less fortunate tend not to eat as well, and aren’t as healthy……….

And once again, did we not just go tens/hundreds of billions of dollars into debt………because they were already living paycheck to paycheck…same with small businesses? How is it, so many on the left, those that claim an awful lot ( today whine about a lot, and the bed they made…can’t grasp simple things like greener pastures or “follow the $$”…and soaring demand) especially in the GTA can’t see and have forgotten this ( and them)….already. Gee I wonder…

See also hard stats…on the pace of the wealth gap, and capital bleed. See also tax regimes in the U.S., see also Fed/Boc rates.

 

[JohnLarue]

Beyond all the whining where are the solutions?

you can start by stop trying to intentionally mislead other people
what I find truly amazing is you do not have a clue what you have done to your credibility
every time I see you have posted, i chuckle and say "OK lets see what he is lying about here"
you are just plain untrustworthy

you complain about whining, yet you are one who is wetting his pants about 100 parts per million of a colorless , odorless inert gas
you ask for solutions to the question "what can mankind do to control our ever changing, dynamic and chaotic climate system "

which is a hubris and ridiculous question

just like we can not control the rise and fall of tides, we cannot control our climate.
so stop the bed wetting and most defiantly stop intentionally misleading others


try arguing with facts and truth instead, or you are afraid of being labelled as a "denier" ?
trying learning some science while you are at it