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Israel at war

Butler1000

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And the Israelis killed 3000 Palestinians. In 2018, a peaceful march to the fence, caused the Israeli snipers to kill Palestinians. Just for walking toward the fence in protest. The Israelis have subjected the Palestinians to 10 times the violence that the Palestinians have subjected the Israelis to, in any conflict, over the last 75 years and continue to do so. So go cry somewhere else about how outraged you are by a pro-Palestinian supporter exercising their freedom of speech IN CANADA, to simply call for civil uprising in a land 10,000 miles away from Canada, so that justice can be done.



Not true. A lot of Jews and Muslims, in Israel and Palestine fundamentally want to live with equal rights and security. So take baby steps. You don't have to do it tomorrow. But may be Gaza and West Bank can be autonomous regions governed by the PA, with representatives in the federal Israeli government. Point is equal rights in some way shape or form. There are options. Now we need the political will to explore and exercise them. Once oppressive measures are lifted, both the Jews and Muslims will automatically come together over a period of time. After all these 2 groups of people used to live right next to each other, before Zionism and the associated violence, was foisted upon the land by the colonial powers.

They can't even govern what they have. And aren't trusted in Gaza. That's why they landslde elected Hamas.

Who else? And if neither side can decide then what? Seriously this 75 years now. Best diplomats on the planet have failed.

Add in a lot of powerful people with various interests to not see this happen. This isn't about "if I was king of the world". Its about the reality on the ground.

So if both sides, or even one side, refuse to come together, what then?
 

Conil

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Apr 12, 2013
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Hamas probably killed most of the hostages

IDF says Noa Marciano was murdered by Hamas inside Shifa Hospital, not killed by Israeli airstrike

IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari says Cpl. Noa Marciano, 19, who was held hostage in a hideout apartment near Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, was killed by Hamas, and not an Israeli airstrike.

Citing a pathology report and intelligence information, he says Marciano was wounded by an IDF strike, and later taken to Shifa, where she was murdered.

“Noa was kidnapped to an apartment next to Shifa Hospital. During the IDF strikes in Gaza, a Hamas terrorist who was holding her, was killed,” Hagari says.

“The pathology report states that Noa was injured by the strike, but not in a life-threatening way, and this is contrary to the lies published by Hamas according to which Noa was killed by IDF strikes,” he says.

“According to intelligence information, Noa was taken inside the walls of Shifa Hospital, where she was murdered by a Hamas terrorist,” he says.



 

Conil

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Apr 12, 2013
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They got flooded by French speaking Muslims from north Africa

How Quebec turned into a hotbed of Islamist antisemitism

On Sunday night, Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante stated the obvious: “At this moment, the Jewish community is under attack in Montreal.”

Bullets had been fired at two Jewish religious school doors in densely Jewish neighbourhoods last week (one school on two separate occasions), following attempted firebombings at a Jewish community centre and synagogue in the West Island. Jewish-owned businesses have been vandalized, and their owners targeted with hate on social media and in action.

A coffee-shop chain owner, whose shop menus were defaced with swastikas, is one of many Jewish entrepreneurs flagged on a boycott list Postmedia News reviewed, attesting to a disconcerting level of purposeful organization. Montreal’s 90,000 Jews were especially revulsed by a Nov. 8 Kristallnacht anniversary mobbing at Concordia University of an exhibit to honour the plight of the Israeli hostages in Gaza.

Rahim Mohamed cited Montreal in these pages as “an epicentre of anti-Jewish hatred.” He’s right, for a good historical reason. A statement after the school-door shootings by Premier François Legault offers a clue to what it is. Admirably vowing that “every effort will be made to find and punish the culprits,” Legault added, “Let us not import the hatred and violence that we see elsewhere in the world.”

What he should have said was “Let us no longer import the hatred and violence…”

The reality is that between 1970 and 2005, Quebec, which — unlike other provinces — controls its own immigration numbers and provenance, determined to import as many fluent French-speakers as possible. With minimal triaging, Quebec flung open its doors to former French colonies like Haiti and Vietnam, who have no axe to grind with Jews, but also to Islamically volatile North African and Middle Eastern countries, where extreme antisemitism is baked into the culture.

Montreal became home to the world’s largest Lebanese community outside of Beirut and the second-largest Moroccan and Algerian diasporas after Paris and Marseilles. Most of these immigrants are peaceful and apolitical. But a small minority — and that’s all it takes — are trouble makers.

“As in France itself,” wrote Drew University professor of Jewish Studies Allan Nadler in a 2011 Tablet article, “these immigrants have brought a deep, historically rooted contempt for European cosmopolitanism and heavy doses of antisemitism. Those apprehended by the Montreal police and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for involvement in the dozen or so attacks on Jewish institutions in the city during the past five years — which included the fire-bombings of a synagogue and a Jewish day school — were all Quebeckers of North African descent.”

From the mid-1990s to 2005, about 20 Montrealers were involved in terrorist plots. Most famously, Algerian Ahmed Ressam — the “Millennium Bomber” — settled in Montreal after receiving Al Qaeda terror training in Afghanistan. Former Morocco-born Montrealer Abdellah Ouzghar, convicted in absentia of abetting terrorism in France, circulated here in virtually complete freedom for years before our sluggish judicial system finally endorsed his extradition to France in 2009. He reportedly returned to Canada after serving his sentence.

For an up-to-date example of imported trouble, we have well-known Morocco-Canadian imam Adil Charkouai who, at an Oct. 28 Montreal Free Palestine rally, called for the eradication of all “Zionist aggressors.” Many years before he received citizenship in 2014 and could easily have been deported, he was arrested on a security certificate, CSIS alleging he was a sleeping Al Qaeda agent, and represented a danger to Canada. Long legal story short, a Supreme Court judgment regarding security certificates — and having nothing to do with what seems to have been excellent evidence — luckily fell Charkouai’s way. He obtained Canadian citizenship, and is still purveying robustly Islamist antisemitism to his fan base.

Fabrice de Pierrebourg, Quebec’s leading journalist on terrorism, followed the trajectories of up to 30 hard-core jihadists for many years in the 1990s, making frequent trips to Lebanon and the North African countries from which most Montreal Islamists derive. In 2007 he published Montrealistan, an examination of the route to radicalization of young Muslim men in Montreal.

De Pierrebourg found the two main vectors were sermons in the mosque the recruit attended and the Internet chat rooms he surfed obsessively. Many of the recruits talked candidly to de Pierrebourg. They went, via Internet lures, from merely bored or socially awkward to radicalized within weeks.

It’s important to note that focusing on Islamist antisemitism isn’t to gainsay the extreme antisemitism on the academic left and their indoctrinated acolytes, whose hateful words and antics we have also witnessed in the aftermath of Oct 7. But, while lefties are happy to participate in the rallies and the marches, it is international Islamist groups that organize them and mainly Islamists who are calling for harassment and violence against Jews.

Officially, relations between Montreal Jews and Quebec, and between Quebec and Israel, are excellent. Quebec was in fact poised to open a representative bureau in Tel Aviv, one of 20 internationally, intended to strengthen relations and bolster cooperative ventures in research and innovation between Quebec and Israel. Unfortunately, this war has forced a deferral until conditions are more propitious.

Meanwhile, thanks to his predecessors’ insouciance regarding corollary cultural elements in their language-based immigration strategy, Premier Legault has his work cut out for him. Nobody doubts his commitment and concern.

The question, as Europe has discovered, is whether law enforcement and political resolve will be sufficient to stuff an angry, Judeophobic genie back into a bottle most western governments blithely uncorked through their infatuation with multiculturalism, or in Quebec’s case fixation on language, both of which, alas, necessitated a self-destructive indifference to the epidemiology of terrorism.
 

mitchell76

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Dylan Salata is a teacher in St. Louis, Missouri. Under a food post announcing the arrival of a Jewish deli in town, Salata alludes to Jews running/owning the media, the government and now the delis. When an Instagram user called out his vile antisemitism, he atrociously answered “don’t drop your kippah”. Can you imagine being a Jewish student in one of Dylan Salata’s classroom?!
 
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Conil

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They weren't loyal to the countries that took them in the past.


More than a million Palestinians in Gaza are now displaced; why are Arab countries not opening their doors?

Expert says some Arab countries fear aid to Gazans could help Hamas terrorists

JERUSALEM — At a summit of leaders from more than 50 Arab and Muslim states held last weekend in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Israel’s military response in Gaza following Hamas’ Oct. 7 massacre was fiercely condemned.

But what was missing from the gathering’s final statement was any immediate solution for the 2.3 million civilians of the Palestinian enclave, more than half of whom are now internally displaced after nearly six weeks of fighting.

While the final resolution called for an immediate end to "the brutal Israeli aggression on Gaza" and made offers of humanitarian and financial aid to the Palestinians, not one country came forward with a viable solution, even temporarily, for the 1.5 million civilians who, according to the latest U.N. figures, are now internally displaced in the southern section of the Strip.

As the death toll in Gaza rises, thousands of civilians continue to flee the conflict and head southward, where the Israeli military has said it is safer and where truckloads of food, water, and medicine arrive daily via the Rafah Crossing with Egypt. The U.N. estimates 250,000 fled in the past week alone.

Some have questioned why nearby Arab countries, who have provided temporary shelter in the past to civilians from other regional conflicts, appear unwilling to even discuss sheltering the refugees from Gaza.

"Arab states have historically been divided with regard to their stance on the Palestinian people and numerous other significant issues," Ahed Al-Hindi, a senior fellow at the Center for Peace Communications, told Fox News Digital. "Although these states project solidarity with the Palestinian people, they hold divergent views on the most effective course of action."

"Certain countries, including those in the Arab Gulf, Jordan, Morocco and Egypt advocate for a two-state solution, which they believe can be accomplished through diplomacy. Conversely, the Iranian axis espouses the ideology of obliterating Israel and establishing a Palestinian state extending from the river to the sea."

Al-Hindi said the primary reason why even the moderate states, most of which have diplomatic ties with Israel, have not taken practical steps to help the civilian population in Gaza is due to their aversion to Hamas and its goals."

"As a result, many Arab countries are concerned that aiding the Gazans could inadvertently benefit Hamas, given that the organization has ruled in Gaza for nearly a generation," he said. "Hamas is a network affiliate of the Muslim Brotherhood, and the Muslim Brotherhood opposes every Arab monarch. This poses significant internal risks to the aforementioned states."

"Ideologies of the Muslim Brotherhood advocate for the overthrow of Arab monarchies and the formation of a Sunni revolutionary Islamic republic, which would resemble Iran but operate under the banner of Sunni jihadism," Al-Hindi added. "Since Hamas serves as an agent for Iran, which in turn presents an additional danger to Arab monarchs, the majority of these nations are worried that their assistance to Gaza may fall into the clutches of Hamas."

The two Arab countries bordering Israel on either side — Egypt and Jordan — have both pointedly refused to offer refuge to any number of Palestinians from Gaza, even though Jordan already has a large Palestinian population and Egypt’s expansive and sparsely populated Sinai Peninsula is just a few miles from where the thousands of Palestinians are now being cared for by international aid agencies.

Earlier this month, Egypt’s Prime Minister Mostafa Madbouly dismissed calls for displaced Palestinians to resettle in the Sinai desert, saying his country would protect its land and sovereignty at any cost. His comments came following the revelation of an Israeli intelligence document proposing that residents of the Strip be evacuated to tent cities in Sinai as the Israeli military works to destroy Hamas.

"We are ready to sacrifice millions of lives to protect our territory from any encroachment," Madbouly said in a recent speech, advocating that a two-state solution between Israel and the Palestinians was the only comprehensive resolution that would guarantee regional peace.

Hussain Abdul-Hussain, a research fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, told Fox News Digital that such a solution should have been touted by the international community at the onset of the war.

"Washington should have made the humanitarian argument, helped fund a camp for Gaza refugees in Sinai and guaranteed their return after the end of the war," he said. "This would have convinced Egyptians to take them."

 

mitchell76

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Today, the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah said something utterly preposterous. It denied that it was Hamas that carried out the horrible massacre at the nature festival near Gaza. It actually accused Israel of carrying out that massacre. This is a complete reversal of truth Abu Mazen, who in the past has denied the existence of the Holocaust, today is denying the existence of the Hamas massacre and that's unacceptable. My goal is that the day after we destroy Hamas, any future civil administration in Gaza does not deny the massacre, does not educate its children to become terrorists, does not pay for terrorists and does not tell its children that their ultimate goal in life is to see the destruction and dissolution of the State of Israel. That's not acceptable and that is not the way to achieve peace.
 
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Leimonis

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And the Israelis killed 3000 Palestinians. In 2018, a peaceful march to the fence, caused the Israeli snipers to kill Palestinians. Just for walking toward the fence in protest. The Israelis have subjected the Palestinians to 10 times the violence that the Palestinians have subjected the Israelis to, in any conflict, over the last 75 years and continue to do so. So go cry somewhere else about how outraged you are by a pro-Palestinian supporter exercising their freedom of speech IN CANADA, to simply call for civil uprising in a land 10,000 miles away from Canada, so that justice can be done.
May these supporters meet their 72 virgins as soon as possible! Inshallah!
 
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Frankfooter

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Of course not, Israel should open the gates and welcome Hamas and its fighters in for some coffee and crumpets.

ps...Squeezer would never be in the open or among the civilian population. It's the brothels that would have to be deeeeeep underground for everyone's safety.
Oh lordy, back to the same argument.

As in: 'we made all the Palestinians really, really mad at us by bombing the shit out of them over and over again and forcing them to live in a concentration camp so now we think they are too angry to be let out'.

Its so fucked.

Israel has to end the blockade, apartheid and occupation.
Israel needs to give all Palestinians full citizenship and the vote.

And stop this shite.
 
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Frankfooter

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You miss my point, which is that you have to deal with the current population mix - which is 73% Jewish - if you're going to realistically and pragmatically discuss the future and its alternative choices.

Can I make it any simpler for you? Or is even this still a "word salad"?
The current population is about 50/50.
You must include all Palestinians living under Israeli rule.
After all, Israel has wiped Palestine off the map and basketcase and leimonis say it never even existed.
There is only the one state, apartheid Israeli.
So end apartheid and give them citizenship and the vote.
 
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Frankfooter

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Piers Morgan made the point that this might represent only a small % of the Gazan population.

But the counter-point is that there has been no push back from Gazans who oppose this sort of behaviour. If folks were to behave like this in Canada, there would be massive denunciation of this behaviour. In Gaza, it simply doesn't occur.
How do you know there hasn't been and there isn't pushback?
You don't actually ever read anything by Palestinians.
Ever.

Likely the genocidal intent of Netanyahu is also only backed by a small percentage of Israelis.

And what about the intent of the 'settlers', who you claim aren't really colonial settlers?
 

Frankfooter

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All that stuff is perfectly legal, except perhaps for the settlements, which are - unfortunately - winked at by the Israeli government.
No mandrill, each of those have legal rulings by the UN stating that they are illegal.
Each one.
I'll post them if you want.

Why do you excuse Israeli war crimes?

But Shack wouldn't routinely go out to mass murder and rape and then surround himself with women and children and yell "Fuck you, war criminal!" at the police who try to arrest him.
Immaterial to the defence of killing the civilians that you say are being used as human shields.
They are still civilians you are choosing to kill.

And why won't you discuss the blocking of food and water?
 

Frankfooter

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The Palestinians hate Zionist oppression. They don't hate the Jews. Watch the Ask Project and many say that. Infact, before Jewish immigration a lot of Jews lived side by side with Arab Muslims, peacefully.

Heck even the present Hamas charter, explicitly says "We dont hate Jews, only the Zionists" (even if that was insincere). See below:


Excerpt:

Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.”

But steps can be taken to integrate populations, not that everything has to be done tomorrow. But steps in the right direction. Also, I am proposing a secular constitutional democracy, that wouldn't be the same as Iran or Saudi Arabia. Under a secular constitutional democracy, even if Israel were to have an Arab Muslim PM, he or she will not be able to impose Islamism on the people because the constitution will prohibit it.

Perhaps initially, they can unite everyone under one country and have Gaza and West Bank be autonomous regions with representatives at the federal level, like the autonomous republics in Russia or like Jammu and Kashmir was until 2019. There are options that will work if sincerely explored.

But fundamentally the Zionists are not any different from the Islamists. They just have more money and education and perhaps a few better laws so they don't do unsavoury things like beheading people etc. However many of the same religiously defined state identities, laws, supremacist beliefs and oppressive attitudes exist amongst both groups. People just find the Israelis easier to digest because they are more "European". But that just means bias. Nothing else.

BTW watch this video below. Even with the people who say they hate Israelis, watch their reasoning. Not one of them hates the Israelis for Judaism. It is not anti-semitism. It is justified anger/resentment that can be set right with the right political gestures.

Very true, like this.
 
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Frankfooter

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Civil uprising my fucking ass


The following is a partial list of civilian casualties in the Second Intifada.

According to the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, 887 (78 percent) of the 1,137 Israelis killed in attacks from September 2000 – 2005 were civilians.[1] Another 8,341 Israelis were wounded during this period, including 5,676 civilians and 2,665 security forces personnel.[2] The majority of casualties were caused by suicide bombings, though Israelis have also been killed by planted bombs, shootings, stonings, stabbings, lynchings, rockets, and other methods of attack.[2]

According to B'Tselem, in the ten years from 2000–2010, of the 6371 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces, at least 2996 did not participate in hostilities when killed, and 1317 were minors. Out of 1083 Israelis killed, 741 were civilians (124 minors).[3]
And yet most of the deaths were still Palestinians.
Israel has been killing Palestinians for half a century now.

 

Frankfooter

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Not at all true. I already showed my entire post and I've never called the Palestinians vermin. It was strictly Hamas.

Are you saying that all Palestinians are Hamas?
I'm saying you have never differentiated between civilian Palestinians in Gaza and Hamas.
Just like you have yet to say killing children is wrong.

So your 'vermin' post is clearly targeting all Palestinians in Gaza.
 
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